Forest on Mars !?!?

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
I see we finnaly got out of the "everything that lives needs oxygen" crud.

lol this is very interesting, got to admit life elsewhere as far as we know could live off of radiation from stars lol or being that eat planets to live.

"Think outside the box, cuz inside the box is a lil cramed." - Trance

Defiantly - why not silica - methane - ammonia ( ammonia is known for its possibilities to cause various chemical reactions - liquid ammonia have chemical proprieties similar to water ) based life?

Or silica, that in theory has identical chemistry bonding as carbon ( thou it lakes chirality like carbon).

Why water to be the only solvent?


* here is a good read from Asimov : “Not as We Know it
The Chemistry of Life “ if somebody is interested

Remember, too, that the biochemical evolution of earth's life has centered about the polar medium of water. Had life developed in a nonpolar medium, such as that of methane, the same evolutionary forces might have endlessly proliferated lipid molecules into complex and delicately unstable forms that might then perform the functions we ordinarily associate with proteins and nucleic acids.
..............................

This, of course, does not exhaust the imagination, for science-fiction writers have postulated metal beings living on nuclear energy, vaporous beings living in gases, energy beings living in stars, mental beings living in space, indescribable beings living in hyperspace, and so on.

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[edit on 8-6-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by Gonjo
Yeah there is though they dont really talk about anything but the CO2 which I find hilarious considering how stupid the whole idea behind that is. And the heating on Earth has officially nothing to do with the sun, ifs aaaall CO2. But enough of that...

Good job with interesting photos, keep up the good work.

Thank you Gonjo!

What about water vapor and warmer oceans and el nino ( oceans have enormous amount of CO2...not to mention melting ice and trapped CO2 there -and they are melting for sure, and are in the water as I am aware not in atmosphere)...sun is heating the surface of Earth and heat moves to atmosphere.

And what about melting of polar caps on Mars and various changes in whole solar system?

(Of course - that does not men that we must pollute our environment as we does.)


You can see the role of water vapor - when scientist are saying that Mars earlier climate was also made of carbon dioxide - but the atmosphere was dense. Why? BECAUSE OF THE PRESENCE OF WATER! Terraforming ides is: heat the surface - melt the polar capes - to relise water vapor into atmosphere....and CO2...but nothning without water vapor IMO.



[edit on 8-6-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by Orion437
Mars rover finds "puddles" on the planet's surface

* 15:33 08 June 2007
* NewScientist.com news service
* David Chandler

A new analysis of pictures taken by the exploration rover Opportunity reveals what appear to be small ponds of liquid water on the surface of Mars.

The report identifies specific spots that appear to have contained liquid water two years ago, when Opportunity was exploring a crater called Endurance. It is a highly controversial claim, as many scientists believe that liquid water cannot exist on the surface of Mars today because of the planet’s thin atmosphere.

Thanks Orion - apsolutly great contribution

That is precisely what we are talking here before - about muddy, watery ponds in Endurance Crater !



'Smooth bluish areas on a Martian crater floor could be PONDS, according to two scientists. The area is approximately 1 square metre' ....A new analysis of pictures taken by the exploration rover Opportunity reveals what appear to be small ponds of liquid water on the surface of Mars'.

blue bird
But enlarged detail of Tex image - we can see the reflection white part of rock/sediment.

Dear ArMaP guess you were wrong

From the beginning of the thread some of us were permanently pointing wet soil under rover tracks. Later come NASA report of 'white' stuff that could indicate watery deposit beneath (before story was about static electricity holding together dry soil in compact chunks after rover pass over). And now this - little water ponds!

It is time to take closer look at that forest of mine!




[edit on 8-6-2007 by blue bird]

Now THATS water! You can even see depth!!

My wife just cooked up a new batch of Humble Pie....

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclinedgot to admit life elsewhere as far as we know could live off of radiation from stars lol

Well sure... I could bring up "Critters" but this is the Mars thread . Though I don't see why they wouldn't be around Mars either...

Plasma feeding, barely in the visible spectrum, can be a couple miles in diameter. They are on Earth, on the Moon and in space... some people thing they are UFO's

NASA knows better... they are harmless, but would scare the bejesus out of most people

[edit on 9-6-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by blue bird
Dear ArMaP guess you were wrong

Not yet, I was talking about that photo, not the one on the article.

I went looking for the original photo that was used on the article and I hope he has better photos to prove his theory, that photo looks less like water (in my opinion) than the one we have been discussing.

This is the photo taken with the Green filter, the only visible light filter used on that area, and here is the page for that Sol, 290.

I was expecting something better.

ArMaP he he ...don't spin it - it is the same region of Endurance Crater...it simple could not look more wet and muddy...like the heavy rain stooped few minutes before the Oppy took images!

[edit on 9-6-2007 by blue bird]

I was just kidding, I know it's the same region.

But I was expecting something better, not just more of those photos. If that is the best they can use to prove that there is water on Mars' surface then I guess people here on ATS are just as good or even better than those two scientists when trying to prove their theories.

Lets see what they have to show in their paper, I hope it is published soon.

Well - who would say this is the image of a lake, but it sure is....looks like these nice Martian dune

The vivid red brine (teaming with halophilic archaebacteria) of Owens Lake contrasts sharply with the gleaming white deposits of soda ash (sodium carbonate). The picturesque Inyo Range can be seen in the distance.

wayn's world....... can't take my eyes from this site

* Endurance Crater


* Mars rock polygons



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* Roky polygons on tundra



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[edit on 9-6-2007 by blue bird]

Those rock polygons, as you call them, would indicate that there was a presence of large amounts of water saturating the soil that freezes then thaws over and over again, breaking the rock structure along natural lines of its crystialline shape.

I honestly believe that Mars is a muddy world. It would explain the colors. The deep red and bright blue/greens indicate oxidized iron and copper. This is my humble opinion, mind you...but if you want to find the missing oceans of Mars, look first in the ground.

*Martian South Polar region - again polygonal pattern




* Polygonal pattern on cold part of Earth - Lake Sapphire in the Haughton Crater

The cool waters of Lake Sapphire in the Haughton Crater might provide scientists with clues about the possibility discovering water on Mars.

Most scientists believe that all of the water on Mars is frozen at the poles. The discovery of water in areas where humans would most likely explore would be of critical importance.

Broken down into its components, water could produce oxygen for breathing and hydrogen that could fuel a rocket's return to earth.

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[edit on 9-6-2007 by blue bird]

Interesting features from the Haughton meteorite impact crater, on Devon Island, Nunavut, in the Canadian high arctic, is 20 km in diameter and formed 23 million years ago - stunning similarities with Mars....but remember there is a lot of water there...and geomorphology of these regions is much alike!

Haughton - Mars Project

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[edit on 9-6-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


I honestly believe that Mars is a muddy world. It would explain the colors. The deep red and bright blue/greens indicate oxidized iron and copper. This is my humble opinion, mind you...but if you want to find the missing oceans of Mars, look first in the ground.

This trade mark red rusty color of Mars is oxide iron - it can happened due to water or CO2 in atmosphere. But if we look to overwhelming morphology, that clearly suggest Mars watery history ( which now nobody dispute any more in scientific community ) - it could be easily due to water.

But one thing - there is a thermic reaction iron-oxygen when creating rust...should that warm soil? I am asking because now there are more evidence that rust is of organic nature rather than innorganic, some kind of bacteria or virus in formation rocks rich in iron oxide!?

Water! Sure looks like it! Any tests for tadpoles? If there is water here it is logical to think theres a shipload under the surface.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan...
I honestly believe that Mars is a muddy world.

Hear, hear, I concurr.

My quicksand was a stroke of insight, and the appearance of muddy regions go a long way to explain our observations, especially for Armap's. I am 100% confident we will find life in the lava tubes, 80% confident of life on the surface, and 100% confident of water saturated mud and sand on the surface. The 20% I reserved for the case of hydrogen peroxide precipitation.

Originally posted by DuncanIdahoGholem
Water! Sure looks like it! Any tests for tadpoles?

No no tadpoles yet... all I have is some fossils... See what you can find in this photo...





From Zorgon



From Papajake


NASA Image Reference...
Martian Rover "Spirit" Sol 016 Image # 2P127793693EFF0327P2371L7M1
Original Image



[edit on 10-6-2007 by zorgon]

- waret ponds from the article zoomed and colored :

see those ripples...

* Eagle Crater

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Does this look like running water -river // through some kind of vegetation( I posted it before - it it cropped from strip with strange, artificel structure)!?

* Mars




* Earth





**puddles - smooth surface - same level - transparency - berries and soil visible:

[edit on 10-6-2007 by blue bird]

.

I know that science is made up of "logic" and "proof", but i say that we tend to get loose and fast with facts when it suits us. Assumptions are made. How long does it take before the distance travelled down the wrong path has led you into a completely illusory belief system, which is still called "scientific fact".

The whole concept seems silly. Humans are incapable of objectivity, despite repeated attempts to feign such.

I tend to agree with you. We are being "spoon fed" by NASA and JPL.

They tell us what they want, and most people tend to believe everything that they publish, with the mind-set "well if NASA says...or JPL says..."
for all we know there could be 100% viable atmosphere on Mars and we're already terra-farming it, strip mining and exploiting its natural resources just as we do on Earth.

(Hops off the soap box) Im not here to bash NASA or JPL or any other "scientific" organization...just merely stating an observation that people tend to take NASA and the info they provide as Gospel, when in fact we know they hide alot of crap from us.

We have their own astronauts stating unequivocally, that there are almost always UFO's in or around Earths orbits and they are common place. What is NASA's official stand on this topic? Answer that question and you have the
answer to many things, and have a good grasp on the scope of NASA's deception towards the "common folk", so I take all data provided by these agencies with a grain of salt...they tell you what they want you to know.

I for one am tired of being bottle fed.

Originally posted by zorgon
No no tadpoles yet... all I have is some fossils... See what you can find in this photo...

Than look at “Humphrey“ // Gusev Crater ( Oppy checked this volcanic rock - and found that water “ apparently seeped through it “...at least, at one time...what Oppy found, by drilling into with abrasion tool, was cracks filled with minerals formed by water).... so, Humphrey looks to me, like it is somehow compiled of at least two parts- see this in the middle, with hole underneath - this part look attached ...

- rotated upside down ... it is even more visible ( looks like Venus de Willendorf without had)

_ see the hole





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