Iran British Hostage Situation Strangeness

Anyone else find the recent photos of the British soldiers being released in any way strange? I mean these are soldiers (are they special ops to boot?) that were essentially POW's of Iran.

Are soldiers taught how to conduct themselves if captured in basic training and beyond? i wouldn't know for sure, but I would think at least several class lectures for officers and possibly enlisted on the scenario of becoming captured would be given.

This pic:



and this pic


Care package from Iran with love:

The Britons received handicrafts, books, pistachio nuts, a
Persian sweet called "gaz" and a vase as gifts, the Islamic
Republic News Agency reported. According to IRNA, they spoke a few
words and phrases of Farsi that they had learned during their 13
days in captivity, thanking the Iranian leadership for releasing
them.

I dunno, I remember this guys story (below) after being paraded around by the vietnamese as a POW and forced to read statements against his will, he read the statements in a monotone-robotic fashion. This was done on purpose to throw some question to his state of mind and controlled by the vietnamese. I think he also flipped the bird (and held it heh) during his 'forced interviews' before the camera. These tactics I'm sure something similar is taught to the military..?

This was Navy Cmdr. James Stockdale at the Hanoi Hilton:

The Vietnamese are not treating us as prisoners of war. The man who is addressing you is not operating under the rules which we have been taught pertain...." Then, stuffing the most flagrant grammatical errors he could imagine into a flat monotone, he said the things the interrogators demanded of him. He was sick at heart for saying these things in any fashion, but was confident that Americans who heard the message would understand how it had been obtained and would ignore it.

More about Stockdale and code of conduct:

James Stockdale was captured by the Vietnamese and taken to Hanoi, where he
spent the next seven and one-half years as a prisoner of war. He had briefed
his pilots during the period he was CAG on the ORISKANY that the Code of
Conduct would apply to anyone captured. There had been some dispute about
the validity of the Code in Vietnam, an undeclared war.

American POWs who had flown with Stockdale had no doubt as to what was
expected of them as prisoners. The knowledge, however, was a two-edged
sword--on one hand, the captives were glad to understand the guidelines. On
the other, when they "broke" (which inevitable they did), immense guilt and
shame ensued. Eventually, as they communicated with one another, everyone
understood that they had only to do their best.

I just find it strange behavior to be all smiles, like they are on a vacation or something. Whadya think ??

Yes, I found it strange.

While Washington Times points out that they were not specifically trained to withstand captivity, they are discouraged from cooperating with the enemy.

In addition, there may be another story here. Some of the pictures have been cropped. You can see from the uncropped images that a few of them are not very happy, perhaps suggesting that they did not cooperate.

It is said that at least one was kept in isolation.



Skynews video

I would rather they had behaved in a more, um, military manner, but they may not have had much of a choise.

^^^^
thank you above. I didn't want to mention anything about the pics to see if it was just me. But you are correct and inline with my thoughts...Some of the forefront soldiers seem GENUINELY happy (on the left of image), almost like they are in a parade or just won a rugby match or something. While others (ones towards the right side of the image) seem like what you should expect from ANY soldier-from a private to a commander-just going along with the program. Not smiling like the others.

I can pick out about 4 that are acting normal in the situation (blank expressions-displeasure etc) and about 5-6 acting strange-all smiles.

I don't know what the deal is-any military out there? Were you taught basic prisoner and capture tactics and procedure? What were the ranks of these soldiers and were they spec ops?

Contrast these images (just taken from the original and cropped)

all smiles, hi mom:


learing rightways glance at fellow smiling soldiers


Concerned expressions on these blokes

Ok, Heres a strange theory I just came up with after reading the previous posts....and yeah I agree, theres something fishy with the whole deal.

Here it goes -

The ones on the left are genuinely happy to go home and Im assuming bewildered by the generosity and good faith shown towards them by their Iranian captors...yes, it was all a show to change the minds of the Brits back home, because the Iranians know that when the captives return home they will be debriefed and could have quite possibly been secret messengers used by the Iranians to convey a message for Brits ears only....who knows, maybe it was a personal message like, we can get your guys wherever you are whenever we want and yes, we do have the bomb, but if you mention anything remotely to this on your news service we will destroy or embassy in Tehrain and a dozen other embassies we have bombs aimed at in countries around the world unless you unsubscribe from the coalition of the willing against us...

Just an idea and thats part one.

Now, part two.

The two chaps on the far right who aren't happy at all Im assuming were the only ones in the know out of the whole group that they were sent into Iranian (or disputed) waters, with the complete intention of becoming captured and used as hostages as a 'Gulf of Tokin' incident to spark of the Iranian War after negotiations would have been forced to fail to justify an attack when the US was ready. They would have been quite upset by the fact they were released because their mission was not completed and maybe there would have been a handsome reward to their families for them sacrificng themselves...

Sort of explains why Blair wasnt too happy at their release.

I genuinely beleive this was a setup by the Brit that backfired when Iran outsmarted them. I wonder what their backup plan now is?????

Youmay not agree with my theory but thats why Im here to express my thoughts and contribute.It might make you think about something else....

No, I dont agree with your gulf of Tonkin theory. (But thats ok at ATS)

I did read that they were kept in at least 3 seperate groups. My concern is that one of those groups was not treated as kindly as the rest.

Or it could be that they were just more senior staff than the others, and simply new better than to cooperate, thus making their stay a little less comfortable I suppose.

Dunno. But its sure strange that the others acted like they just won the lotto.

[edit on 4/5/07 by makeitso]

Good theory, however (theirs always a however eh): Your theory that 1) some are happy to go home-forget their training and giggle like schoolgirls-possible.

But like in "A Few Good Men", when asked:"Well, I don't understand. How did you know where the mess hall was if it wasn't in this book? reply: "I guess I just followed the crowd at chow time"

These soldiers may not have been spec ops or specially trained (as purported), however they aren't babes in the woods either. They're soldiers used to being together and looking at visual cues from their fellow mates. Seems odd that some are giggling and some are opposite-grim faced. Also just look at the body expressions, relaxed-smiling vs. tense-on-guard-grim-serious expressions.

Strange however you cut.

Remember MOST of the 15 would not of had more than a couple of classes in what to do in that sort of situation. I believe Iran knew this and played on it - as evident in this thread.

As it turns out, this may of been to all the groups advantage. Imagine if the majority of the group gave name rank and number for at least the minimum 48 hours.

Now that you've mentioned the word giddy, it reminded me that I did read they were immediately given a drug test as soon as they got on the plane to leave.

I'll try to find that link.

huh didn't see that headline. Yes I wold give them drug tests too. pSych Evals I'm sure as well. I just don't buy the inexperience theory or idea for the giddy ones. I mean, these are soldiers RIGHT? Soldiers carry weapons RIGHT? Soldiers are taught to kill RIGHT? Granted these are navy and are not the gung ho American types that would join the Marines. But I'm sure any and every soldier has watched at least a MOVIE dealing with POW/captives. If I was joining the military, what I would do if not the impetus for recruitment.

Also basic recruits, like you said, would have either a dedicated class or at least several lectures on captivity (we need confirm on this).

Originally posted by greatlakes
Contrast these images (just taken from the original and cropped)

all smiles, hi mom:

learing rightways glance at fellow smiling soldiers

Concerned expressions on these blokes

I think this illustrates it all quite well. Look at the ages of the sailors in the pics. The ones smiling and waving seem (to me) to be a bit on the young side. The ones who have managed to keep their composure look a bit older - and seem to have grasped the fact that when you`re in the middle of a tense international situation, your superiors are likely going to be a bit miffed if you start muggng for the camera and going on about what a great time you had.

I thought the stories about a drug test were pretty funny, actually. Seemed like they were hoping that Iranian hospitality still extended to hashish-laden sweets to explain all of this... In any case, hope those guys had a good vacation, as they`re probably up to their necks in shouty superior officers at this point.

Originally posted by greatlakes
But I'm sure any and every soldier has watched at least a MOVIE dealing with POW/captives. If I was joining the military, what I would do if not the impetus for recruitment.

Also basic recruits, like you said, would have either a dedicated class or at least several lectures on captivity (we need confirm on this).

This is very possibly the first time many of these people have been at the front line. Iran was, and will continue to play mind games. IMO this situation has come to a satisfactory end, anyone can see the 'confessions' were forced, Iran vs. the rest of the world will continue to be an interesting state of affairs. But as it happens, all 15 safe and well, no concessions made to recover them job done.

Soldiers are trained to give 'Name, Rank, SSN' and nothing else. At least they are in the U.S.

Originally posted by SourGrapes
Soldiers are trained to give 'Name, Rank, SSN' and nothing else. At least they are in the U.S.

That is fine as long as the other side have signed (and follow) the Geneva Convention. What do you do when captured by 'rogue states'?

What about I guess more advanced tactics, such as giving false information to (or for spec. ops. a prefabbed cover sty.)? I mean if I was captured I would want more 'outs' than just the stnd. name rank...But you wouldn't want your fake story to be revealed from interrogation of fellow soldiers giving differing stories

See these are the questions a class would cover, cmon no miltary here?

Originally posted by Now_Then
That is fine as long as the other side have signed (and follow) the Geneva Convention. What do you do when captured by 'rogue states'?

It's part of the 'Articles of War'. This is part of the oath to be a U.S. soldier, to follow the laws of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The Geneva Convention has nothing to do with it. It's an oath (er, 'law) a soldier adheres to. This is one of those crimes that can be punishable by 'death'.

Let me assure you that a U.S. soldier will almost certainly choose death in a POW situation, than to be a known 'coward' in the U.S. Military Court System.

Edit to add: This is probably why you do not see US military soldiers 'paraded' for the media. They aren't so cooperative.


-Sour (military brat)

[edit on 5-4-2007 by SourGrapes]

Goog discussion going on , it reminded me of the 2004 hostage crisis in Iran I found some images so you can compare their appearance to the 15, these are while they are still being held.

Just posting for reference.

Originally posted by Now_Then

Originally posted by SourGrapes
Soldiers are trained to give 'Name, Rank, SSN' and nothing else. At least they are in the U.S.

That is fine as long as the other side have signed (and follow) the Geneva Convention. What do you do when captured by 'rogue states'?

Work on your tan at Gitmo?

I'll requote:

The Vietnamese are not treating us as prisoners of war. The man who is addressing you is not operating under the rules which we have been taught pertain...."

He had briefed his pilots during the period he was CAG on the ORISKANY that the Code of Conduct would apply to anyone captured. There had been some dispute about the validity of the Code in Vietnam, an undeclared war.

So these POWS in a, safe to say, much more 'intense' scenario that was the VIETNAM WAR, after getting captured, the commanding officer who had the rank above all others, was able to relay distinct orders about the code of conduct that was to be adhered to. Cmdr. Stockdale had time to issue the CODE OF CONDUCT orders to all captured.

It seems that the 15 captured would have one commanding officer aboard ship and would seem logical that this was an officer and not enlisted. This officer shold have issued orders (even vague ones, general direction?) to the others during the capture?


Wish I was in the briefing, ok maybe not IN the briefing...


[edit on 6-4-2007 by greatlakes]

Yes, it is extremely strange that these soldiers would be all smiles and happy upon being released of their detainment. They should despise it and demand further imprisonment.