ET's religion

Originally posted by LightWorker13
You know damn well if you are advanced enough to traverse the stars, you dont need to resort to primitive things like wars and controlling lesser life forms.

Well, that's probably the way most humans would rationalize the issue. However, the likelihood that any ET will think even remotely like a human is astronomically slim. We simply cannot say that ETs follow human logic — Just because X + Y = Z makes sense to us doesn't mean it holds any value for any other species. Try explaining Calculus to a cockroach, or structural engineering to a porpoise. That's probably the same disparity of communication and understanding that we might expect in our encounters with an ET. Our "logic" and best science, even properly translated, may seem as unintelligible gibberish to an ET.

Indeed, we tend to project our logical thinking onto everything, even onto God: "Well, if God is so omnipotent and omniscient, why does it allow so much hardship and suffering? If there is a God, it couldn't possibly be so cruel." And the answer to that is that your human rationalization in no way applies to God. God doesn't think like a human, never has and never will — even says that in the Bible: God's thoughts are not the thoughts of Man, God's ways are not the ways of Man — Isaiah

Just so, an extraterrestrial intelligence may be so far removed from human thought and logic that it may be perfectly acceptable for that advanced species to promote war, interfere in developing cultures, pose as the "messengers of God," believe in gnomes and fairies and trolls or anything you can imagine. We simply can't say how an alien intelligence will think or act — we can only speak with "logical" authority regarding our tiny little perch here in an unremarkable star system lost in an unremarkable galaxy.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 3/27/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
We simply cannot say that ETs follow human logic — Just because X + Y = Z makes sense to us doesn't mean it holds any value for any other species. Try explaining Calculus to a cockroach, or structural engineering to a porpoise. That's probably the same disparity of communication and understanding that we might expect in our encounters with an ET. Our "logic" and best science, even properly translated, may seem as unintellgible gibberish to an ET.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

We don't know and we can't say and we can't do this and we can't do that and it's all speculation, blah, blah, blah...

It's all a lot of what-ifs?

So, what if they do think like humans? What if their logic is similar to ours?

It's just as plausible as you suggesting that it is not.

If we don't know what aliens will think or do, then there's no reason to discount that they might think like us in many ways. It has as much weight as stating that they don't think like us at all.

DocV:
Just so, an extraterrestrial intelligence may be so far removed from human thought and logic that it may be perfectly acceptable for that advanced species to promote war, interfere in developing cultures...

By the same token, maybe they are not far removed from human thought and logic. Maybe they don't want to promote wars or they don't want to interfere in our developing culture.

Originally posted by tezzajw
So, what if they do think like humans? What if their logic is similar to ours?

Well, I posed that same question to you a while back, and you came unhinged. I said, What if the ETs land on the White House lawn, and they step out wearing rosaries and crucifixes and claim that they are the "Messengers of God"??

And your indignant reply was that you would call them liars. I don't know what the hell good that would do, but that was your response. So I hope they think nothing like humans, because we'll just end up in another stupid atheist-vs-reality argument with the ETs.

—Doc Velocity

[edit on 3/27/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by tezzajw
So, what if they do think like humans? What if their logic is similar to ours?

Well, I posed that same question to you a while back, and you came unhinged. I said, What if the ETs land on the White House lawn, and they step out wearing rosaries and crucifixes and claim that they are the "Messengers of God"??

And your angry reply was you would call them liars. I don't know what the hell good that would do, but that was your response.

So I hope they think nothing like humans, because we'll just end up in another stupid atheist-vs-reality argument with the ETs.

—Doc Velocity

[edit on 3/27/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Oh, Doc. You really enjoy spreading the disinformation about whenever you can. You also have a way of inserting emotion and tone into my posts, that frankly, doesn't exist when I type it.

If aliens have the same religion as us, then I'll call them liars and beat them with a stick. They'll be as moronic as the zealots here on Earth.

You did not ask me the same question a while back.

Asking if their religion is the same, is different to asking if their logic is the same.

I can separate logic and religion. Religion is the crap that gets left behind after any intrinsic meaning to worthwhile thought has been consumed.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by Sparky63
The control group failed to "decifer" or hit on many of the words that the Pro-Roswell group claimed to see.

Fair enough, but the agenda for that lil' paper is, in fact, debunking.

And from what I read, it's not just a pro Rosewell group glancing at the paper, it's a little bit more involved then that. But, debunkers have a history of downplaying and trivializing the efforts of people looking for the truth. In a lot of ways, the rationality of the serial debunker sickens me more than the ardent believer.

I grabbed a hi res copy of this memo, brought it up on the screen, pointed to the one word I could fairly clearly see without the help of a website, and asked my friend, "can you decipher that word?"

She said, "as far as I can tell it's disc, in quotation marks, why, what is it?"

I said, "Rosewell memo."

She said, "you mean the U-F..."

I cut her off with, "yeah"

She completed the conversation with, "you're crazy, you know that?"

And I agreed.

See, the culture of ridicule has affected her, and she feels my interest in this subject is insane. Although she tolerates and accepts my interest, if she knew I was on this site I would recieve a firm talking too at best and a heated arguement at worst. So, essentially the debunkers have won the hearts and minds of the average american whom actually would be embarrassed to even consider most of the topics covered on this site.

I'm just sayin', I haven't looked too hard at it, but that one word is disc. Who knows, maybe it's referring to the disc under the weather ballon that the Mexicans, who were identified as aliens because they're short, were standing on while they were looking at Venus reflecting off of swamp gas, but the word is "disc". To deny it is to be dishonest with yourself.

Well, that's probably the way most humans would rationalize the issue. However, the likelihood that any ET will think even remotely like a human is astronomically slim. We simply cannot say that ETs follow human logic — Just because X + Y = Z makes sense to us doesn't mean it holds any value for any other species

Well there are certain things that are universal. Science, spirituality, love, creativity, all of these things are universal, they are not limited to humans.

So, naturally, if you are smart you can understand how religion and science are actually one, cuz they are, and the "evil ETs" will be the first ones to tell you that.

So knowing this, you would then understand how creationism and evolution are actually one, because they are.

Now knowing this, you will then understand that God created a self-evolving universe of free will, therefore, every single species that is created anywhere, ultimately follow the same guidelines in evolution. You evolve mentally, physically, emotionally, technologically, and of course, spiritually, we better not ever forget the spiritual side of life.

So, to think that a race, perhaps 10s of millions of years old, had all that time to evolve everything, yet would not evolve spiritually, that makes no sense.

Of course the vast majority of ETs are spiritually evolved, pure logic alone will tell you that. And, what a coincidence, there are hundreds of thousands of stories out there of spiritually evolved ETs.

And, Doc Velocity, I dont understand where you get the idea that they would not think like us at all, based on astronomical odds, that doesnt make sense to me, consciousness is consciousness. There are two main ways to think, positively and negatively, you can think "high" and "low", "good" or "bad", and Im sure the vast majority of ETs are very positively good.

Its just we humans are not very advanced on the evolutionary ladder, therefore we still think in terms of limitation, self doubt, and distrust of others. These three combinations produce the conditions of the world around us, which up until now hasnt worked out too well, I think its time for a change from fear based thinking to one of trust.

Why would it be unfathomable to think that the positive ETs do not interfere in free will, obviously not they are spiritually advanced, and are only waiting for us to evolve before they really make themselves known.

And I also wonder how bad our world would be if the dark beings were not kept in check by the Forces of Light, can you imagine how much worse things could be on this planet, if we werent supported so strongly!?


[edit on 27-3-2007 by LightWorker13]

Originally posted by tezzajw
If aliens have the same religion as us, then I'll call them liars and beat them with a stick. They'll be as moronic as the zealots here on Earth. You did not ask me the same question a while back.

Here's the thread where I asked you the same question:
Response to ET Presence by Religious Organizations

Originally posted by tezzajw
Asking if their religion is the same, is different to asking if their logic is the same. I can separate logic and religion. Religion is the crap that gets left behind after any intrinsic meaning to worthwhile thought has been consumed.

On the contrary, religion is the "crap" that has dominated and shaped human thinking for thousands of years longer than any sterile method of "critical thinking" to emerge in recent times. The ancient Egyptians, and Mayans, and Chinese all employed some fairly advanced logical thinking, but almost always in pursuit of spiritual/theistic goals and glory. If you ask me What if ET's logic is the same as ours, then I would answer that their logic is just as likely to be heavily influenced by spirituality and religion, and perhaps more so.

But seriously, going back to the thrice-told tale of aliens and humans thinking on the same wavelength, I believe the scenario was summed up fairly nicely in the 1950 flick The Day the Earth Stood Still: As soon as they stepped out and waved, we'd shoot them. Then we'd apologize, then we'd fear them even more because they were so wise and glib and understanding, then we'd chase them around some more and shoot them again. Then they'd finally get so pissed off at us that they'd issue a stern warning and leave.

Damn, I sincerely hope they're nothing like us.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 3/28/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by LightWorker13
So, naturally, if you are smart you can understand how religion and science are actually one, cuz they are, and the "evil ETs" will be the first ones to tell you that.

Hey, I'm very smart and I don't understand that. Religion is a bunch of lies. How can religion be one with science?

So knowing this, you would then understand how creationism and evolution are actually one, because they are.

They're mutually exclusive ideas. Either life was created, or life evolved. You can't have it both ways.

Now knowing this, you will then understand that God created a self-evolving universe of free will, therefore, every single species that is created anywhere, ultimately follow the same guidelines in evolution. You evolve mentally, physically, emotionally, technologically, and of course, spiritually, we better not ever forget the spiritual side of life.

If God created everything, then it could not have evolved, it was created. Anyway, God is fictional, it doesn't exist. There's less proof or evidence for a God than there is for aliens.

And, Doc Velocity, I dont understand where you get the idea that they would not think like us at all, based on astronomical odds, that doesnt make sense to me, consciousness is consciousness.

Doc's just speculating on a what-if. He's allowed to, it's valid. Just as it is also as valid to speculate on the what-if they do think like us.

(Doc - I really agree with most of what you write on many things. I respect that. However, you do have a tendancy to start off on your dis-info rants from time to time. Ultimately, it's no big deal. It keeps me amused.)

Originally posted by LightWorker13
And, Doc Velocity, I dont understand where you get the idea that they would not think like us at all, based on astronomical odds, that doesnt make sense to me, consciousness is consciousness. There are two main ways to think, positively and negatively, you can think "high" and "low", "good" or "bad", and Im sure the vast majority of ETs are very positively good.

Well, if consciousness is consciousness, then we should be able to communicate and enjoy intellectual discourse with any and all of the other lifeforms on Earth, no? If there is such a diversity of life all around us, which evolved with us on the same planet, and we can't even carry on meaningful conversations with any of it, why should we fare better with an extraterrestrial biologic entity?

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 3/28/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Doc, you did not ask me the same question ("What if aliens had the same logic as us?") a while back.

You asked me the question ("What if aliens have the same religion as us?") a while back. Yes, it's in the link you supplied. I know that you asked me that. You read my reply the wrong way. I didn't argue that you have asked me about religion before. Of course you did. I don't dispute the religion question.

Ask me again: If aliens have the same religion as us, what will I do? Beat the zealots with a stick and call them liars!

Who knows if aliens will have the same logic as us? You don't and neither do I. Speculating one way or the other is mute, until we get a chance to kick back with an alien and share a beer with it. Unless, I have beaten it with a stick for carrying a Bible and rosary beads for believing in a God.

Originally posted by SkyWay
So, just because proof of aliens is not available at this moment, we are not in a position to assume that they don't exist.

I

I agree with you that their existance cannot be dogmatically ruled out.
They may indeed exist. But considering the quality of the evidence I still consider belief in them to be a leap of faith.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Yeah, those people are ill-informed morons.

Those are your words, not mine. I don''t consider them morons. and have never called them such. In fact I have a great deal of respect and admiration for many serious researchers.

I do not reach the same conclusions they do though.

Originally posted by tezzajw

That's why people who research the UFO evidence don't need faith to know that aliens exist. They're well-informed and intelligent believers.

I disagree with that statement. I believe faith is required when there is an absence of proof.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Obviously, you haven't researched enough of the evidence to decide for yourself yet, Sparky.

Thats only partially true. While I don't rule out the possibility that there may be Alien species, I do feel that there is not enough conclusive evidence to state that their existance is a fact.

Great topic one I have always wondered about.

I created a new topic for my question www.belowtopsecret.com...

[edit on 28-3-2007 by GameSetMatch]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Hey, I'm very smart and I don't understand that. Religion is a bunch of lies. How can religion be one with science?

Tezzjw,

I think you are failing to see what some people are saying. There are many religions that do embrace science - and even have their own scientists (more on that below).

They're mutually exclusive ideas. Either life was created, or life evolved. You can't have it both ways.

Ok, now - the Catholic religion actually permits the belief of evolution (yes, it does). I went to a Catholic school, and back in the 80's - there was no teaching about creationalism, but only scientific evolution - I even wrote a paper on it and got an A+ What the Catholic church states is that evolution is a possibility - it all depends on when our ancient ancestors were infused with a 'soul'. According to some priests I questioned about God creating everything in seven days, they stated - 7 days to God could be billions of years for us... so they are very flexible in their thinking.

As for scientific research - the church actually employs scientists, psychologists, the works...
I am a non-practicing Catholic - I don't go do church and really consider myself agnostic... but you can't deny you could link science and faith together quite easily.

Originally posted by danx

Professor Esmail Zanjani and colleagues at the University of Nevada-Reno have created sheep that are 15 percent human at the cellular level. Half the organs in the sheep are human. The idea, of course, is to harvest those organs to transplant into human patients.

source: slashdot, mailonsunday.co.uk

Sorry, you were saying?

When I speak of a hybrid I am not referring to a few organs that are grown like tumors in a foreign body. I am referring to a fully integrated life-form that is a complete full-body blending of two species -- a life-form that fully possesses a balance of the physical characteristics of two separate and unlike species.

Don't want to sound like a jerk, but.. if I was enslaved by "this materialistic society and its educational system", my guess is that I would be believing in God and would be a religious person.

That depends on the society. In this materialistic and technological society just the opposite is true. Your mental enslavement is evidenced by your very common faddish ill-regard for religion. You're just following the crowd in this materialistic western society by rejecting religion. It takes independent thinking in this society to believe in anything spiritual or unconventional.

No, showing me a flying saucer is not what I mean by proof, because, I already told you I believe intelligent alien life exists. We were talking about abductions, remember?
And I hardly think that believing in aliens automatically means that I have to accept that they are performing these 'atrocities' that you claim they are doing to people.

The proof is plentiful in the terrible encounters of those who have been abducted. You are not thinking logically if you insist on believing that aliens are "good fellows" in the face of all the reports by abductees that reveal the opposite is true.

Nevertheless, it becomes more reasonable to believe than to disbelieve when the numbers of witnesses are so astronomical. Besides, ALL things were unproven at one time, even the things that are now proven.

Yeah, like at one time everyone thought the sun revolved around the earth, except for a few 'crazies' that were burnt alive for believing otherwise (oh and you can thank religion for that one). And it was unproven at the time as well. I guess since so many people believe it, it must've been true then.

You are mistaking the CONCLUSIONS that people made about what they saw with their accurate DESCRIPTIONS of what they saw. All those people who thought the sun revolved around the Earth were describing accurately what they saw. So, they were reliable and credible in every way. It was only in their evaluation about what they saw that they were mistaken. So, just as we know that in the past witnesses accurately reported the view of the sun as it appeared from the Earth, today it is proper to accept as accurate the reports by large numbers people about their alien encounters.

They certainly wouldn't practice the war causing religions of earth,I wouldn't think. I probably should rephrase that, they wouldn't practice them in the same "light" that we do... I don't think. I really don't think religions were necessarily designed to cause wars, but through the corruption of humanity they are used for that purpose.

Originally posted by SkyWay

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Im sure when scientist tranquilize a large cats to run tests and track such a animal its a terrifying experience for the Cat. They are Drugged have biological samples taken and even tagged and remotely monitored.

I dont think anyone would claim scientists are doing such with evil intent. Infact scientist that do such work are doing it to understand better and conserve such animals.

Such actions in my opinion do not automatically equal evil intent.

The scientists do not rape and impregnate the animals as the aliens do to humans. And, while we are on the subject of animals, the aliens mutilate farm animals without permission from the rancher and dump their carcasses on the field like trash. The aliens demonstrate contempt for all living things.

No scientists do far worse things to intelligent animals like chimps and dogs. You should really research what we are doing on earth before you start accusing the aliens of such atrocities none of which their is even evidence to support other than word by mouth.

religions are designed to control 'the sheep' or slaves or whatever you like to call them.

if they feel threatened by the size another religion they send their sheep to war.
its all about the control & market.

if e.t.s are just a bit intelligent they don't have religions at all.

add:

if aliens are as violent as human kind we would be annihilated by now.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by ellroy]

Originally posted by ellroy
religions are designed to control 'the sheep' or slaves or whatever you like to call them.

if they feel threatened by the size another religion they send their sheep to war.
its all about the control & market.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by ellroy]

That's not necessarily due to the corruption of religion though. It seems to me to be due more to the corruption of man. His lust for power, control and money.

Originally posted by SkyWay
Your mental enslavement is evidenced by your very common faddish ill-regard for religion. You're just following the crowd in this materialistic western society by rejecting religion.

I'm following a crowd by rejecting religion? Man.. talk about illusion..

It takes independent thinking in this society to believe in anything spiritual or unconventional.

Yes, it does take independent thinking to believe in something unconventional, like not believing in god.

Your other 'responses' in your post have such distorted logic and lack of information, I'm not even gonna bother to address them.