Brits were in Iranian waters - I have proof

Iran insists British sailors were in its water
....

The Iraqi military commander of the country’s territorial waters cast doubt on claims the Britons were in Iraqi waters.

“We were informed by Iraqi fishermen after they had returned from sea that there were British gunboats in an area that is out of Iraqi control,” Brig. Gen. Hakim Jassim told AP Television News in the southern city of Basra.

“We don’t know why they were there. And these British troops were besieged by unknown gunboats, I don’t know from where,” he said.
...

Iraqis seems to be admitting that birts WERE indeed in Iranian waters.

I'm glad that someone, at last, has got the balls to come out and tell the truth.

I had no doubt from the beginning that brits were in Iranian waters, and I hope they put them on trial for their undermining of iranian sovereignty.

PEACE AND LOVE

KEEP IT REAL

[edit on 27-3-2007 by proprog]

Mod Edit: CAP title

[edit on 3/27/2007 by kinglizard]

In another interesting development,

Iran's arrest of sailors was legitimate, says former UK envoy

Iran's arrest of sailors was legitimate, says former UK envoy

London, March 26, IRNA - Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray Monday supported Iran's decision to arrest 15 UK marines in the Persian Gulf last week.

"In international law the Iranian government were not out of order in detaining foreign military personnel in waters to which they have a legitimate claim," Murray said, who was also a previous head of Foreign Office's maritime section, carrying out negotiations on the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

"For the Royal Navy, to be interdicting shipping within the twelve mile limit of territorial seas in a region they know full well is subject to maritime boundary dispute, is unnecessarily provocative," he said.

www.payvand.com...

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[edit on 27/3/2007 by Mirthful Me]

one must ask himself what would happen if Iranian sailors were inspecting freighters in Britain waters...?

i heard on the radio 4 last night [bbc's news/discussion radio for those of you not here in blighty..] the following from someone at our foreign office [sorry, no names, can't remember..]

a) the treaty between Iraq/Iran on where territorial waters begin/end was signed in 1975, and declared the 'border' to be the mid-point of the al-arab waterway.

Now, this changes over time, so it was agreed to re-survey the waterway every 10 years. obviously, this hasn't happened since, but the principal of territorial waters is firmly established, there's no debate over whose is Iran's and whose is Iraq's. [he was adamant on this, as legit as any sea-border on the planet, documented, recognised etc]

b) this spokesperson [and i'm really sorry i didn't note his name] questioned the Royal Navy's legitimacy in stopping and searching boats [in iraqs waters, never mind iran's!]

c) [and i'm not sure how true this is] its some festival/religious thing in iran at the moment, so everybody is on holiday! apparantly trying to get hold of anybody to discuss the situation with isn't easy... which is why, he suspects, its all taking so long to get sorted...

*if* they were in iran waters [and you can bet they were, probably doing something shady...] then they knew they were [its the British Navy FFS! if they didn't know where they were what the h3ll are they doing in charge of a boat full of weapons?].

i would suspect a british SNIP-up.. getting caught doing something we shouldn't have been...

Mod Edit: removed censor circumvention
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[edit on 27-3-2007 by sanctum]

Originally posted by shackleton
i heard on the radio 4 last night [bbc's news/discussion radio for those of you not here in blighty..] the following from someone at our foreign office [sorry, no names, can't remember..]

b) this spokesperson [and i'm really sorry i didn't note his name] questioned the Royal Navy's legitimacy in stopping and searching boats [in iraqs waters, never mind iran's!]

They are operating under a United Nations mandate to curb smuggling in the region. I'm not sure how legitimate it needs to be to satisfy everyone.

Originally posted by shackletonc) [and i'm not sure how true this is] its some festival/religious thing in iran at the moment, so everybody is on holiday! apparantly trying to get hold of anybody to discuss the situation with isn't easy... which is why, he suspects, its all taking so long to get sorted...

Absolutely, and to look at from the Dark Side of this, IF it was planned (see the 18th march article in The Sunday Times on Iran threatening to kidnap, "blonde blue-eyed westerners") then this time would be great for adding to any delays. But of course, like everything else, that's an IF.

Originally posted by shackleton*if* they were in iran waters [and you can bet they were, probably doing something shady...] then they knew they were [its the British Navy FFS! if they didn't know where they were what the h3ll are they doing in charge of a boat full of weapons?].

i would suspect a british [SNIP]-up.. getting caught doing something we shouldn't have been...

If they were "doing something shady", then why is an Indian merchant ship involved? The RN were investigating that vessel when the IRGN turned up, surrounded the crew of the RIBS, and took them away.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by sanctum]

Comments from one Iraqi hardly makes it "proof". We've seen numerous comments from British sources and Iran forces that contradict each other on this matter.

Also can anyone find the original main CNN article concerning this matter? I've looked but can't trace it. In that article I recall an Iraqi fisherman also giving an eye witness account that Iranians had crossed into Iraqi waters, captured the British troops, and then took them into Iranian waters. If anyone could verify that with the source it'd be great.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by Bugman82]

Sheep! There is no PROOF of anything. You have a "He said, she said" going on here with each side claiming to have proof! Get on with it then - show us. Iran, if you have proof produce it now or be prepared to have your arses handed to you. UK, if you have proof, disclose it for public scrutiny and then let the ass-kicking begin!

This is ridiculous. Too many of you folks are willing to accept any article posted on the internet as proof!

But the Iraqi Foreign Minister has claimed that they were in Iraqi waters and has called for their release.

Iraq's foreign minister has urged his Iranian counterpart to free 15 Royal Navy personnel captured four days ago.

...

But in a telephone call on Sunday night Iraqi foreign minister Hoshiyar Zebari told Iran's Manoshahr Mutakki that the Britons were in Iraqi waters.

Source

Originally posted by proprog
Brits were in Iranian waters - I HAVE PROOF

Not to be a pain, but you don't have proof.

What you have is a news article. That states other people's opinions.

Proof would be a video, an eyewitness account, something tangible.

Thanks for wasting our time

I dont mind my time being wasted LOL

Either the Governments are unwilling or unable to show proof of who was where and when.

Maybe both Governments are just guessing about what their saying?

who knows? I dont

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[edit on 27/3/2007 by Mirthful Me]

I just love when people here claim to have absolute 'PROOF'. What hog nads. There's always another side:

Downing Street said the UK could end up releasing evidence proving the group had not ventured into Iranian waters.

"We have been clearly stating that we are utterly certain that the personnel were in Iraqi waters.

"We so far have not made explicit why we know that, because we don't want to escalate this."

Complete article here

Originally posted by jtma508

"We have been clearly stating that we are utterly certain that the personnel were in Iraqi waters.

"We so far have not made explicit why we know that, because we don't want to escalate this."

Whats so harmful about them showing proof positive? Thats just ridiculous. These politicians and military love to complicate things. If they have absolute proof they should just produce it and be done with it. The more people that see thats its the truth the better. I can't blame people at this point for mistrusting the US or UK official stories anymore.

I wonder what the proof could be if it escalated the situation.

Could it be something 'obvious', showing that the Iranians actually trespassed into Iraqi waters to capture the British sailors and marines? Or could it be something more complex?

My first thought was that the Iranians would lose face if everyone knows without any doubt they are lying. What would their reaction be then?

Proof would be the GPS coordinates of the british vessel, the freighter that it stopped and the Iranian vessels.

You have no proof but you are sure it is the fault of the British.

Perhaps it was the fault of the British and perhaps the Iranians snatched some prisoners for some other reason. I don't have the answer but neither do you.

I'm sure that the proof will come out sooner or later and then the world can see who was right and who was wrong.

Question......is there anything stopping our government altering the official GPS co-ordinates if there is a chance that these Brits were indeed just inside Iranian waters?

Just a thought thats all. Is there such thing as tamper-proof logging of GPS co-ordinates once they have been recorded?

It's such a shame that many people would'nt believe the brit government even if we were in the right, the trust has virtualy gone from this country.

CX.

I would think they would just have to check the Indian vessels logs to find where they were at the time. I mean the captain of that vessel would deffinatly put time, position, weather, etc. in his logs if he was boarded for an inspection.

Originally posted by proprog


Iraqis seems to be admitting that birts WERE indeed in Iranian waters.

I'm glad that someone, at last, has got the balls to come out and tell the truth.

I had no doubt from the beginning that brits were in Iranian waters, and I hope they put them on trial for their undermining of iranian sovereignty.

PEACE AND LOVE

KEEP IT REAL

[edit on 27-3-2007 by proprog]

I really am shocked by some of the things that are being written on here at a time like this. Why were you so sure that these sailors and marines were in Iranian waters at the time? Is it because you don't trust the British government? You have to make sure you differentiate between the British government and the men and women of the military. In my opinion the fact that a young mum was one of the crew on these boats show that they were not knowingly in Iranian waters. Also I imagine that the families of the sailors and marines taken hostage will be scouring the internet for information at the moment so maybe comments like "I hope they put them on trial" and other useless speculation on the outcome of this is better kept to yourself.

1. We're these spec ops? I beleive they were,. so do they not have any GPS tracking on thmeselves or their equipment. I would think they did, know where the men/woman are, and are trying to sort this out diplomatically. They have a plan in place to rescue them I am sure. The Brits SAS are not someone to fart with and I am sure you would have the best combined force you could.

2. This also fits into 'why did Britan delcare a troop withdrawl' a few months ago? This provcation wil launch them to the forefront, garner more support and in the end, there will be 4 CSG's in the Gulf having a field day. I am not stating this is what I want to happen, but....

3. This is an open door if Iran does nothing in the next few days. I would also love to know that the chatter is DHS is monitoring right now. 3 confessions in how many days? that was a signal to the cells thet themselves prepped

GPS does not lie. I am positive they can pinpoint where they were taken from amd to.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by esdad71]

proof?

thats not proof. its something someone else has presented and you are trying to present as your own.

I had no doubt from the beginning that brits were in Iranian waters, and I hope they put them on trial for their undermining of iranian sovereignty.

so, you have just randomly found something to suit your agenda then? hmm