Some Moslems Expect the Mahdi (Moslem Messiah) to Return (March 21, 2007)

Originally posted by Ram
I still believe God is the sun and Jesus, is the effect of the sun.

Yes! I understand that point of view, totally. I've been thinking about the moon, lately - the moon is the only way we can view the light that comes from the sun - as focused light! To look at the sun is dangerous and will blind us! But the moon is always there, night after night - sometimes so brightly reflecting the light of the SUN that it seems as if it is daytime instead of night!

I think Jesus, being the 'express image' of the Father, is the same as the moon being a direct reflection of the Sun's light and energy!

All religions are based on our solar system. I have concluded. And the human race have this insanity called religious text and books.

ALL of creation works on the same inherent functional construction - look at the atom...look at the solar system! Micro to Macro but essentially nothing differs! And it all works PERFECTLY!

Because it's the density of dreams - like our souls are made from what we preceive as dreams.

But also our memories and experiences are inherent ingredients in our 'self' (soul)...the EGO as a driver must be overcome but the SELF as a unique part of the UNITED whole is our true LIFE!

The sun must have light in all spectras - all weights - and of such it be the source and reason of intelligence. it is a psycically manifestation of a world of light - and we are here because of the rays and what the sun emits of vitamins. It's in your flesh - it's in everything we are.

The rainbow! The serpent! The true light that shines from within - the light that lights all men - Christ Jesus who is ONE with the Father...we need BOTH.
But we cannot bear to witness the sun directly or get too close! We will DIE!
Yet with either a mirror or a crystal (some sort of heat rendered SAND/clay) we have proof of GOD! In both the Christ and also the Rainbow! Both are assurances that God's promises are TRUE and REAL!

And it's absolutely beautiful and logical.

YES, it is. And so are YOU!

So Jesus or any other Messiah is the rays of the sun - And what ever the sun emits of electric vibrations that stimulate the entire solar system. Goes through all of the heavenly bodies. even Vitamin-C.

Think of a prism - as I mentioned above, a triangular shaped crystal clear piece of fire-refined sand - the diffusion of the WHITE light which becomes the spectrum visible to the human eye!

The prism is the 'glass darkly' as well as the 'sea of crystal' - depending on how clouded we each are, as souls (souls being the cells and Spirit being the body of Christ/God) as a result of either religious dogma or social oppression!

It's an vibration of intelligence - it is the connection to our relationship with the entire universe.

The Kingdom of the ONE God! The King of the Universe...the Mind of Christ!

And the human race has been looking at a book apparently God's words - so distorted it can have only on purpose - and that is control.

It is not the WORD which is distorted or untrue - it is our human blindness and inborn mortal fear which causes us the driving need to CONTROL - and we will use any and all things available for that purpose! But our own lack of faith and imperfect sight in no way causes God's love to not be perfect, unfailing, corrupt, or controlling.
If we do not have free will it is only because we choose not to be free! If we feel we cannot be accepted as a member of God's universal family, it is only a case of being a prodigal son!

They took the power and intelligence of the most powerful force in this solar system and made it into a man.

I thought God made man? Or did man make God?
The ultimate catch-22!

They purposely told you the son of god was here in the flesh!!!

He WAS! He still is! You are here in the flesh...I am here in the flesh...all of us are here in the flesh!

The Son of God is nothing less but what the sun emits from it's massive enormous heat fire and light - what ever the sun emits - is what they use to call Messiah.

Well, this is true, I believe...but yet what does being 'first born' from the 'dead' mean?

I think it means: being the first light to be consciously aware of it's own origin and destination and inherent unity with LIGHT as the sole life force of the Universe - GOD is light which is LOVE, TRUTH, and ultimately, WISDOM.

And it's freaking logical - And here they thread their people with nuclear wars and murder - because they need to control the population of this planet - because they screwed it up a long time ago.

But what is the inherent priceless value gained through EXPERIENCE? - that is, by experiencing the effects caused by our mistakes (actions based on decisions born of poor judgment)?

Experience leads to gaining both KNOWLEDGE and HUMILITY - the latter ONLY IF the mistakes are admitted yet not used as self-condemnation or condemnation of others! Without humility, knowledge remains superficial and imperfect in application.

Experience + Knowledge + Humility = Wisdom

So next time your children ask what God is - Will you point to the skies or shake your head and tell them - It's to complicated?

No way! I am a student of the school of thought known as 'K.I.S.' - keep it simple - as Einstein said, 'If the answer is simple, God is answering!'

Simply, my answer was/is/shall be:
God IS love!

THANK YOU so much for sharing your thoughts - you have brought some new understandings to completion in my learning - which I can share with others just as you have shared with me!

God bless you = Love bless you!

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

You bring up an interesting point. Any third grader knows that everything is essentially a reflection of light. Without light, nothing would exist. God describes himself as light so when people ask me, "What does God look like?" I reply: "Imagine a big ball of intense energy that glows." If one can see that in his/her mind's eye, then they have somewhat of a concept of what God looks like.

yes. The super natural thing is - that it is a psycical manifestation of what you can see in your mind.

So it is as skyway points out - also supernatural. Just means more spectras of light than our human organism can see. Im talking about the light that bees can see - also - that we cannot. it's very simple.

SUN/GOD Is a source of life - here.
it's light - not just fire - but light.

It is a natural occuring event that takes place all over the universe - (stars) - A sun has absolutly all spectre of lights - it is light.
here comes the mindblowing part

ERGO It shines into all the worlds - because it has all light waves infrared - ultra violet - and you name it - IT IS THERE!!.

All levels of light. Soft light hard light - it is all there.
Sun is the only natural thing that emits light so bright. IT IS (the) LIGHT -

Now you turn to religions - and we embrase a stone or a cross - and kiss it... When we have this everlasting light - supernatural -casting it's effect in our minds on many levels so wast and huge that we have made worship places - because - Like some of you have pointed out - telepathy - levetation is possible...

it must be!! - because we are all part of this infinite manifested light - that is intelligence - we know it - because we - are - made - of - it.

Religions have just blocked the sunlight - the light - So we actually have been removed from it's - super-natural effects. Like sun-glasses.


Some people can see more spectras of light than most of us. You see.
That is Revelation.

And I think our fear - is actually our own light and it wants to shine fully - but at present time we cannot allow it.

IF our own light was allowed to shine through - we could proberly live for a very long time. Like we read stories about people who use to live for 800 years or so.. Much more - And in that - telepathy would be released like a wild fire across the globe...

The church use to burn people with this kinda knowlegde. It scared the shjiit out of them i think... ( I understand )
-
Perhaps - this was the battle between Illuminati and the church...I dunno - it's a secret i think.
-
We are living proof of intelligence beound - there is an intelligence behind everything - Even the sun. But the sun is an intelligent thing because it create life - Even though there should be no reason to do so. But it does - and that is intelligent design.


A Cheetah's dot's and colors is an example of how - light is intelligent -
Those dots are created because of light!
Not just that -


look at this guy - Again - that color is created because of light - It's intelligent because the panther hunt's at night.

It's not a joke.. This is a creation of the sun!

Do you get it?

It is not the WORD which is distorted or untrue - it is our human blindness and inborn mortal fear which causes us the driving need to CONTROL - and we will use any and all things available for that purpose! But our own lack of faith and imperfect sight in no way causes God's love to not be perfect, unfailing, corrupt, or controlling.

Queen, that little tidbit is the whole point behind everything that I say. I know, as well as you do, that man has corrupted the truth through the ages. This whole, waiting for the "Mahdi" is just one example of it.

Islam has taken from other sacred texts and essentially declared them for their own. Corruption with a capital C. However, 2012 is coming and when it does, billions of people are going to be surprised at the truth that emerges. It will no longer be debated, thought about or denied. It will just be.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Some of you people seem to be attributing Divine qualities to blind forces of nature. You seem to be elevating things that are not even at the human level...to the level of the Divine.

First of all, mankind is part of Nature, not seperate from it

In the long run, though, we may well see that nature has better staying power while humanity is but a brief interlude.

Life (nature) started on this planet billions of years ago and yet Homo Sapiens sapiens (us) are relative newcomers at 200, 000 years of existence.

Could I please ask that everyone remain civil towards each other in this thread (and anywhere else, for that matter)?

Secondly, the topic is the impending return of the Mahdi.

Please post on topic or start another thread.

Originally posted by SkyWay
The twinkle in God's eye is greater than the sun.

The transformation that is coming may well transform the sun itself. A small matter for the Almighty.

Even though you followed that up with 'not literally' I will say that YES that twinkle is beyond even the miraculous life of the Sun...and it is BLUE. Much like the background on your profile! Only more electric and ALIVE than even a crying baby or radiant motherhood or even a father's shining pride in his offspring! IT is LIFE!

I saw that twinkle around a month or so ago...it 'lit' upon the right eye of Scott - my 'other half.' I understand fully what you mean by not quantifying or restricting God in a box and yet seeing all things as a manifestation and proof that God IS REAL - Scott is not God - yet he is a son of God and just as much a part of God as any and all of us...

But HE didn't see that twinkle light on my eye...I had the eyes which saw - I see God in all of us, including myself - yet I fully understand what Christ meant in saying what he did about 'ye are gods' to his accusers!

That TWINKLE is literal and as real as the keyboard I'm pounding on right now - actually WAY MORE real than this plastic/electronic montrosity which is my WOC (weapon of choice OR sword)

Because that twinkle was undeniably sentient and AWARE - and (although I lack the words to properly express the experience) that twinkle KNEW me...intimately as annie - and it seemed as if it WINKED at ME! In love and comraderie!

I have truly seen some astounding things I never thought possible or even imagined, in these last 3-4 years...miracles! BUT none of them compared to seeing that twinkle! NOT even close!

Originally posted by badw0lf
I like the ideas and concepts of your posts, and of the others in this thread, but you appear to be not debating a topic, as stating your opinion as fact.

And when I say 'God', I think we should take the whole concept of 'God' into focus and not merely a primitive biblical reference handed down by word-of-mouth over many many years.

Which, of course, is your own personal recommendation (opinion) on the matter - with which, BTW, I TOTALLY agree...but yet I also realize that my opinion will not change or improve the understanding of anyone else! The only effective witness/help I can honestly and productively contribute is by sharing my experiences, to the best of my ability; and how they affected me and what they meant to me (what they clarified for ME, personally) and offering that for the inspection of others - not seeking approval OR conformity but just seeking to share freely that which I was given freely.

Perhaps the way in which we were 'punished' was not entirely foolproof.

Perhaps we (as fools) are punishing ourselves and blaming it on God (not a a fool but definitely proof for fools)...and so maybe it is the other way around...our own foolish plan for self-punishment and mutual oppression is not GODproof!

None of this is 100% the case, but its just what makes me think, out loud so to speak.

Thank you for doing so! If not for the blessing of being able to 'think out loud' to others, I would be about as sane as an invented God sitting all alone cursing a fig leaf for the mistakes of mankind!

Say that we were changed as a Neanderthal being, to be given greater intelligence. We were given the tools to become a wise people, who were given telepathy as a means of communication so as to have 'perfect' communication. No misunderstanding.

Say that as a primitive people, we were still largely flawed and so greed, envy, spite, lust, et al, were rampant and we tended to abuse given our abilities, and those who altered us punished us by taking away those abilities.

I relate to what you are saying - my thoughts have similarly gone that route. I have begun to understand the merging of SPIRIT (united thought - the mind of CHRIST) with MATTER (flesh and the so-called state of original sin) as being the FALL (descent of the higher emanations of God as the heavens) into perdition (the lower emanations of God in the Earth)...
NOT a bad thing for the matter (sons of men) but definitely what seems, at first, to be a major setback for spirit (sons of God)....

Yet in the end - all are Sons of God AND sons of men! Divine Matrimony - the Chemycal Wedding of CHRIST and his BRIDE - united perfectly and imperviously evermore through the perfect CEMENT which is LOVE!

Now, we're getting closer and closer to whatever is meant to be. Perhaps we will be judged once again, and if we are considered to satisfy the requirements of those who have watched over us, this 'enlightenment' is once again entrusted to us - we are given a second chance.

Only individually - and the judge and jury are self - and the accused is self!
But overall, we are all SAVED from ourselves!

I've refrained from simply stating it - I believe that God is more than an omnipotent being, but those who would have seen our potential as a species. Aliens.

Alien life (sons of God/fallen angels) compared to the life of 'beasts' (animals/mortals) - only in that the former understands immortality as the underlying unifying life of Creation, and the latter believes they are not eligible or somehow excluded from that unity.

Moses was a 'stranger in a strange land' and Abraham was considered an 'alien' in the lands he emigrated to, when coming out of UR, and even Jesus said that he and his disciples were 'not of this world!'

Perhaps the essential quality of being 'alien' is something which depends on the perspective of the observer - that which seems strange to our eyes is surely alien - after we become familiar with it and also lose any insecurities/fears in our hearts, directly the result of NOT knowing/uncertainty , then it is no longer 'alien' in our field of view!

We cant deny that, and frankly, there is more evidence to 'believe' (which is the basis for faith) in that, than most of the prophecies in ancient books which have spurned many violent and bloody wars.

Violence and bloodshed comes from FEAR.

FEAR NOT
BELIEVE ONLY

Religion doesn't kill man...man kills man. Religion kills God's servants, the prophets - then grants them sainthood as martyrs!

The prophecies themselves, however, have spurned nothing at all damaging to our existence - they have ignited, irreversibly, our inherent human desire to know and understand our origin/Creator/God - and our insecurity from not fully understanding causes us to stand divided based upon our PERSONAL MIS interpretations of God's voice through His prophets - wanting to be RIGHT and in God's good graces at the expense of other soul's security - the same security we seek to secure by killing those who make us insecure because they are different than us - we deceive ourselves by forgetting that God sees us NOT as we see one another - He sees our hearts. All human hearts are the same - take them out of the body and you would NOT know if it was yours, mine, or someone else's!

I dunno, but I guess my point is, don't refuse to believe anything, until we have concrete evidence to prove it. Given everything we don't know, anything could be possible.

That's RIGHT! Because, as it is written:
With God ALL things are possible.
&
If you can but believe, all things are possible!

Originally posted by masqua

Could I please ask that everyone remain civil towards each other in this thread (and anywhere else, for that matter)?

Yes,Masqua. I take responsibility for how I reacted. I got a bit out of hand and I'll admit that. Skyway, I do want to apologize.. You may or may not wish to accept my apology that is your choice. However, I will at least apologize because I was disrespectful.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

This thread has gotten off course somewhere...

I started looking, and here are some of the supposed signs of the "Madhi's" return.

1) A General Sign

There are many signs that will precede him, a general and very important sign is that he will come at a time when there is great confutation, intense disputes and violent deaths. When people are afflicted by disturbance and experiencing great fear. Calamities will fall upon the people, so much so that a man shall not find a shelter to shelter him self from oppression. There will be battles and fitnaas before his appearance. Every time a fitnaa has come to end, another will start, spread and intensify. The people will be troubled to such an extent that they will long for death. It is then that Imam Mahdi will be sent.

Abu Saeed Al-Khudri has repoted that the Messenger of Allah said "He will be sent at a time of intense disputes and differences among people and earthquakes..." (Ahmed)

Return to Title
2) The Double Eclipse In Ramadan

Note. The Double Eclipse In Ramadan statement quoted from Darequtni is NOT verified, indeed it's authenticity is questionable. It is NOT to be considered as authentic Hadith.

Return to Title
3) The Battle in Mina

Before Imam Mahdi emerges an inter-tribal fight will take place. In the same year hajis will be looted and a battle will erupt in Mina in which many people will be killed. Ameer bin Shauaib reported from his grandfather that the messenger of Allah said:

"In Dhul Qaidah (Islamic Month) the tribes will fight, Hajis will be looted and there will be a battle in Mina in which many people will be slain and blood will flow until it runs over the Jamaratul Aqba. Their companion (referring to Imam Mahdi) will flee to a point between the corner and the Maqaam and will be forced to accept people's allegiance."
(Al-Fitan, Nuaim ibn Hammad)
Return to Title
4) The Euphrates will Disclose a Mountain of Gold

The Final Hour will not come until the river Euphrates (which flows through Syria and Iraq and finally opens in the Gulf) will disclose a mountain of gold over which people will fight and die Abu Hurairah reported that the Messenger of Allah said:

"The shall not occur until the Euphrateswill disclosea mountain of gold, over which people will fight. 99 out of every hundred shall die, and every one of them shall say, 'perchance I shall be the one to succeed"
(Muslim

Source

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by masqua

Could I please ask that everyone remain civil towards each other in this thread (and anywhere else, for that matter)?

Yes,Masqua. I take responsibility for how I reacted. I got a bit out of hand and I'll admit that. Skyway, I do want to apologize.. You may or may not wish to accept my apology that is your choice. However, I will at least apologize because I was disrespectful.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Apology accepted. Look, I don't mind in the least if anyone disagrees with me. We are all entitled to our personal view and opinions and conclusions. But it facilitates discussion if we focus on the subject discussed rather than on those discussing it. It is a big waste of time and gets old very fast when we criticize each other instead of exchanging our ideas with each other.

Originally posted by SkyWay
It is a big waste of time and gets old very fast when we criticize each other instead of exchanging our ideas with each other.

Criticizing others and calling people names really adds nothing to a discussion. You're right. Although I don't think either one of us devolved into the name-calling bit, it wasn't very far from it.

Anyhow,like I said,I do apologize and I hope you accept it.

anything happened yet or Mahdi got stuck in some cosmic traffic jam?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Criticizing others and calling people names really adds nothing to a discussion. You're right. Although I don't think either one of us devolved into the name-calling bit, it wasn't very far from it.

That is one of the reasons that I try very hard to focus on the subject rather than on personalities...because I don't want to sink to a juvenile level by engaging in name calling and insults.

Now, back on topic. Yesterday was the Spring Equinox. That was the day that some Moslems had anticipated the appearance of the Mahdi. The day has passed without the return of the Mahdi. Maybe he will make it next year. Or, the Mahdi may come at anytime if the prophecy about his arrival at the Spring Equinox was incorrect.

Originally posted by SkyWay

Now, back on topic. Yesterday was the Spring Equinox. That was the day that some Moslems had anticipated the appearance of the Mahdi. The day has passed without the return of the Mahdi. Maybe he will make it next year. Or, the Mahdi may come at anytime if the prophecy about his arrival at the Spring Equinox was incorrect.

Well, wait now. Let's think about this. Do you necessarily think that if this "Mahdi" did return that it would automatically be evident?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by SkyWay

Now, back on topic. Yesterday was the Spring Equinox. That was the day that some Moslems had anticipated the appearance of the Mahdi. The day has passed without the return of the Mahdi. Maybe he will make it next year. Or, the Mahdi may come at anytime if the prophecy about his arrival at the Spring Equinox was incorrect.

Well, wait now. Let's think about this. Do you necessarily think that if this "Mahdi" did return that it would automatically be evident?

From what I understand, and mind you I am not a Moslem, but from what I understand the Mahdi was supposed to arrive with a great voice from the heavans announcing his arrival.

Originally posted by SkyWay
From what I understand, and mind you I am not a Moslem, but from what I understand the Mahdi was supposed to arrive with a great voice from the heavans announcing his arrival.

Well, you see that is the problem with the literalist interpretation of any scripture. If it doesn't happen exactly the way they have imagined it to happen, then in the literalist's mind, it hasn't happened. I don't know if you're a literalist or not, but I am assuming that you are or you have come across some literalist explanation of it.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I imagine if a great voice had thundered from the sky and the Mahdi had decended from on high the reports would have reached us by now. I mean, even the ordinary news media would probably have reported on an event that spectacular. The fact that it hasn't happened is a pretty good indication that the arrival of the Mahdi did not occur. There's always tomorrow!

Originally posted by SkyWay
I imagine if a great voice had thundered from the sky and the Mahdi had decended from on high the reports would have reached us by now. I mean, even the ordinary news media would probably have reported on an event that spectacular. The fact that it hasn't happened is a pretty good indication that the arrival of the Mahdi did not occur. There's always tomorrow!

Refer to my above post.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, you see that is the problem with the literalist interpretation of any scripture. If it doesn't happen exactly the way they have imagined it to happen, then in the literalist's mind, it hasn't happened. I don't know if you're a literalist or not, but I am assuming that you are or you have come across some literalist explanation of it.
[edit on 22-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Yes. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. There are many things which can be difficult to believe, and because it is difficult to believe them on the basis of our personal experiences, many of us have a tendency to automatically assume that they were not intended to be taken literally, and must have been metaphor or myth or symbols of things in nature. The problem is that there are things mysterious which have occurred to some people which confirm that there are things which seem like mere legends but which are actually literally true. There are things such as acupuncture which has been practiced in China for millennia and yet had been considered myth or folktale by many in the West.

Originally posted by SkyWay
The problem is that there are things mysterious which have occurred to some people which confirm that there are things which seem like mere legends but which are actually literally true. There are things such as acupuncture which has been practiced in China for millennia and yet had been considered myth or folktale by many in the West.

Skyway, my friend, you are preaching to the choir. I have experienced many odd things myself. However, when it comes to ideas like everyone hearing Gabriel blow his horn, or every eye seeing the return of Christ, I just.... :sigh: I don't know. I tend to think that when Christ comes back what the whole "every eye shall see," was referring to is the television set. Of course, it could also be speaking of the spiritual eye, which then there again, if that is the case then the literalist interpretation is also incorrect.

There are many experience in other lands which people in the West know little about, and which are considered myths. I saw a special by Bill Moyers once of a so-called Martial Arts Master in China who was able to deflect blows without even making physical contact with his opponents. Such men are considered mythological figures and heroes, but some of them are very REAL! Just because some figures may seem bigger than life and difficult to believe, and even more difficult to understand for some of us, does not mean that they are not LITERALLY true!