Calling all UFO peoples!! Your chance to explain what and why you believe!!

Originally posted by Canada_EH

Originally posted by Freezer

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
if they are so advanced, why would they let themselves be seen??? Why would they fly around with lights on????
Why deal with such a war-mongering society as ours??

Why not let themselves be seen. They have nothing to fear from us. We might shoot at them, but its like a caveman throwing spears at a tank.

I think you'll find that goverment agencys and people on this thread would disagree with you. At least when we are just going on one persons word for some elses. Steven Greer and his "wistness" calim other wise that they shot down UFO's and at the very least the over whelming number of people believe crashs.

I don't believe we try and shoot these craft down as a protocol per say, and I really believe its up to whos in charge at that given time. Remember anything entering our restricted airspace is immediately engaged, and if unresponsive we down it. Theres been many recorded sightings where we've sent up jets, even the famous Belgium wave sightings. I think the main reason we don't always shoot them down, is simply cause we can't. They are too fast and manueverable. I think we get lucky occasionally. I think its just the militarys bad nature, with anything invading our space is termed an intruder. Its not like these UFOs fill out flight plans. Also note, we might not even think its alien, and might simply think its a foriegn countries aircraft penetrating our airspace, in which we shoot first ask questions later.

The interviews in project camelot bring out the fact that the US Govt. recognises 57 different ET species that have ben here at one point or another over the years.

There is no doubt in my mind that we have learned some things.

The big problem is the secrecy....if these things were that good, why are regular people kept out of the information stream. They have hidden this for years. There is a lot of questions that need to be answered if this is the case.

It is no longer a simple thing to let out, because the questions will really start to fly. I think those people are afraid of disclosure. If they would have come clean in the fifties or sixties, that might have been better than hiding these things.

The real question should be... Who trusts the Government when they say "Sit down, shut up, don't ask questions, we do what we want, and remember...this will be for your own good".

What I cant understand is some of those old paintings from a few hundred years ago that have UFOs in them , was this just the artists imagination ? I guess people through the centuries have wondered about whats out there just the same as we do today.

The Bible talks about people being taken up in firey chariots.

There are questionable ET pictures in the Pyramids.

The old pictures you mention.

It would be burying your head in the sand, to deny there is some truth to all of it. We just don't know how much.

Therefore we should not be frowned upon for being so expressive.

Do you guys get the picture.....We want to know what you are hiding. Let us decide what is best for ourselves.

Well I feel silly every time I consider it but, I knda believe the story of President Eisenhower meeting with a couple races of aliens, and making an agreement with the greys due to technology wants to keep ahead of the Russians. This is by far the most cartoonish and rediculous story I have ever heard yet, I kind of believe it! For me it's the little things that sway what I believe. I mean, an "emergency" 2am filling??? He was at a secret meeting with greys was the story.

Of course, it could be the more intelligent hoaxers who play off the small details, to throw folks like me off. In the end.....I don't know what they are or where they are from but I am fairly certain they are here. More from my own sightings than anything else.

[edit on 20-3-2007 by WAZZIT32]

Regarding Ocham's Razor though, all I am saying is that rather than making the jump to assuming that anything bizarre or unexplainable in our eyes is alien....try thinking the other way around. For instance, "Wow, that was really strange what we saw flying through the air with no sound and pulsing lights......must be some new exotic aircraft that somebody doesn't think we've seen!" Instead of tthe ordinary, "Hmm, that seemed a bit odd, never seen that...wait, must be an alien and UFO from Zeta Reticuli!"

I hope that explains what I am trying to get across. Yeah, there's always going to be exceptions to the rule, but what about all the things that actually make more sense?

Actually, let me play the opposite side for the moment.....tell me why you think they ARE from another part of the multi/universe?? Is there anything that would be more proof posiitive than their flight characteristics?? We all agree, at least I think we do, that there are craft in and around the atmosphere that are very strange. Yet, the quantum leap to suggesting that they are anything other than our own abilities is such a far out stretch.

I've yet to read anything that would lead me to think otherwise. I like Gazrok's logic and line of thinking, it's very deductive and smart, but there's just that intangible proof that we are all missing I guess.

Peace, looking forward to more thoughts....Mondo

This is why I believe.

Roswell

The Hill Abduction

Thats enough evidence for me.

And there have been sightings for hundreds of years, so they cant all be secret military craft.

If it's ours - It's definetly strange they are spotted all over the globe.

Strange in that sense that - no matter what way we look at it - There seems to be an experiment going on.

They only Experiment i can see - Is about what force strives to win foothold in a basic society as a planet is.
-
And one more aspect of an Experiment is about a force that strives for a sort of control.
The weirdest thing is the control part that put chains on the human experience - of expressions. Which could be a natural force behind a planetary society.

Chains on media and the chains Religion has become - or has always been. What is interresting to figure out is the raw leadership in this world. For it must be them who keeps these hover-machines away from the human experience.
On top of all the other things that are keept away from our lifes.

Instead we are feed this massive fake world - based on money which in reality and sense is worthless.
I have some faint idea that maybe the leaders on the very top - pulling the carpet over peoples eyes are not really fit to live in this dimension, yet they are allowed.
And as long as we do nothing, they will keep teasing us, because they hate us, and the idea behind the human experience...

Good thread.
plz continue.

[edit on 20-3-2007 by Ram]

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
Regarding Ocham's Razor though, all I am saying is that rather than making the jump to assuming that anything bizarre or unexplainable in our eyes is alien....try thinking the other way around. For instance, "Wow, that was really strange what we saw flying through the air with no sound and pulsing lights......must be some new exotic aircraft that somebody doesn't think we've seen!" Instead of tthe ordinary, "Hmm, that seemed a bit odd, never seen that...wait, must be an alien and UFO from Zeta Reticuli!"

That's not how I think. I'm simply saying that if you take the evidence (yes, witness testimonies, videos and photographs Are evidence) For the alien spacecraft theory you get... well, some at least. Thing is, the only thing that's in the opposite scale is more or less just a big question mark. We Don't know what's going on outside of this solar system. We can make guesses, but are they educated? No. Why? Because every assumption we make is based on what we already know, and if we try to make the assumption that UFOs are Not linked to alien spacecraft, then we get.... A big question mark.

So in the probability scale of alien spacecraft vs. not alien spacecraft, it's always going to shift in favor of the side with the more evidence, even if the evidence itself is not proof.

Ram,
Hmmmm...quite interesting, guess i need a little time to let that one soak in before I can adequately respond. I like the direction of the worldwide sightings though..sorta stretches the boundaries on the U.S. Military abilities a bit doesn't it!?

Talk to you later, thanks for the props on the thread, make sure to flag it too!!

Peace, Mondo

Yes indeed - it's interresting perspective..

How far can the US military actually fly.
We see these nice scematic 3D animations of the huge Radar planes.



And the sattelite GPS stuff we all know about. They see everything and knows where to drop the bombs and blow stuff up.
But I heard a bird sing about they are years ahead of what's being told.

I can believe in both theories or stories - It's alien or American

Paper-clip and what have you.
Im willing to believe each theory - But the price still is a lie - a controlled human experience - based on money - power and what have you.
-
maybe we shouldn't care - But we are all part of it, and therefore everything should be shared.
Soak it in - it's very simple.

And I agree with Drexton - We get and quiet huge question mark - and blank area.
here is one.

?

The question is: how far back in time should we go - as a person on previous page wrote - It's on old church paintings - sry can't remember persons name. (I just read many people know this part - my - respect to all of you - sry did not read through it all)

So how is the church involved in this?
Even seen some old hindu writings (i think it was hindu) - with flying balls and carrots...And a story of some round stones found in a cave... the story also tells about the guys from space hide in a cave - and one day horsemen came and killed the last space guy...Weird stuff. Because he looked strange and sold candy to the children of earth.. somthing.

[edit on 20-3-2007 by Ram]

pyramids - ect.. how weird are those giant triangular sun temples really - pretty weird i think.

plz continue-


[edit on 20-3-2007 by Ram]

If Occam's Razor is going to be applied to UFO and abduction phenomena (as it probably rightly should be - at least in my opinion - given the enormous amount of speculation and uncertainty involved when considering the subject,) then I think the safest and least assumption-laden stances are:

1) "UFOs are, and have been, physical or optical phenomena which cannot yet be identified definitively and conclusively without reasonable doubt or multitudinous variation."

2) "Abduction phenomena are, and have been, physical or psychological phenomena with certain common traits which cannot yet be fully explained definitively and conclusively without reasonable doubt or multitudinous variation."

My understanding of Occam's Razor (which may be incorrect, of course,) is that it is an approach whereby one eliminates from consideration those hypotheses which require the greatest amount of assumption, leaving those which require the least. Since it can be, in my opinion, credibly argued that almost any popular or fringe hypothesis for these phenomena (including the popular mainstream explanations) require equally substantial assumption and speculation, or substantial enough speculation that the degree of difference between them does little to bolster one in any real empirical sense, it seems to me that only the above conclusions can remain in the running until such time as we have more variables and concrete understanding.

As another poster pointed out, we simply know too little that is certain for us to be certain, one way or the other. I share that opinion. Granted, there are those which have (or claim to have) first hand experiences that, for them, provide proof of one hypothesis over others. I am someone who has had experiences which could, if I were certain of their implications, sway me in one direction versus another. However, there are as many people claiming to have had such experiences as there are hypotheses, and I know too little about even my own experiences to draw any conclusions about these phenomena on the whole. I conduct myself as though one hypothesis is true, simply because my experiences have had implications for my physical health, and I have to cope with those issues (and I have done so succesfully based at least in part on that very loose, very weakly founded hypothesis,) however, I always keep my mind open to the very real (and even PROBABLE!) possibility that those are all mere coincidences. Thus, because my stance regarding what I have experienced is "anything is possible," and because we know so little, my stance regarding these phenomena both in their totality, and for me personally, is the same: at this point, anything is possible.

To state otherwise, for this poster, would require a great deal of speculation or assumption. If we're using Occam's Razor (and I feel we should be,) I can't do that.

Occams Razor.....that is precisely why i believe in UFOs being partly Exatra terrestrail.
Theseparate bsightings over the period of time.....the whistleblowers are legion!
From the flights of 80-100 UFOs overflying britain at one point daily while maintaining and changing to three separate frmation patterns as they crossed british airspace and swept out over the atlantic....a;ways the same formations....at first they would approach in a U formation then change to two parrallell lines, and finally they would form a huge Z as they dissapeaRED OVER THE ATLANTIC.
tHIS WENT ON FOR A WEEK OR SO!
tO THE VERY SMALL PROBE LIKE ORBS AND TINY SAUCER AND OTHER SHAPED CRAFTS...
Then huge b(larger than aircraFT CARRIER SIZE ufo THATS CHASED THE
JAPANESE PLANE OVER ANCHORAGE ALASKA.

tOO MANY PILOTS, TOO MAny cops, too many people with nothing to gain but the answer to a question they never thought theyd be asking, but somehow here they are.....

[edit on 20-3-2007 by bergle]

Originally posted by AceWombat04
My understanding of Occam's Razor (which may be incorrect, of course,) is that it is an approach whereby one eliminates from consideration those hypotheses which require the greatest amount of assumption, leaving those which require the least.

Yeah, that's essentially it — all things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the correct one. And, to my mind, the most elaborate and far-fetched assumption made about UFOs is that they are extraterrestrial in origin. Where the hell did that idea originate? Of all the notions about the origin of UFOs, the ET connection seems the most contrived. The ET theory is a gigantic leap of faith that has nothing to do with available evidence.

Let's take a quick look at our "best evidence" of UFOs and their occupants:

• Lots of ancient representations of entities or craft that appear very similar to UFOs as we see them today on Earth.

• Thousands of photographs, films and videos of unidentified craft zipping and bobbing and weaving about in Earth's skies.

• Hundreds (or thousands) of unidentified craft pinged by commercial and military radar all over the Earth.

• Obvious physical and chemical disturbances at sites of reported UFO landings on Earth.

• The majority of UFO "occupants" described as hominid — bearing more than a passing resemblance to Earthly humans (a head, two eyes, nose, mouth, neck, torso, two arms and two legs, and proportioned roughly like an ape).*

* While this last one is based on pure anecdotal reportage, I think it's important to note that a majority of so-called "contactees" have made mention of the bodily configuration of UFO occupants, which I accept as evidence of something phenomenal, even if only within the realm of human psychology.

So, what's the simple, common thread running through our best available UFO evidence? The UFO phenomenon originates right here on Earth. It takes place in our skies, it takes place on and beneath the surface of our planet, we can detect a lot of it with our current Earthly technology, and the UFO occupants (if they exist at all) apparently evolved right here on Earth, as well. That's all that we can draw from the available evidence.

Now, that may mean that it's purely a psychological phenomenon peculiar to our species throughout the ages; or that we physically create UFO phenomena (through military experimentation or straight-up hoaxes); or it may mean that there is another intelligent species coexisting with us on this planet, perhaps one that sprang forth from our own family tree, perhaps just a few million years before we evolved here.

But for us to leap to the conclusion that these things originated beyond the Earth is not at all supported by our best evidence. So, using Occam's Razor, the simplest and most probably correct answer is that UFOs and their occupants are just as much Earthlings as we are.

— Doc Velocity

I don't know if this has been touched upon but I am dead tired and didn't read the whole thread.

What makes you (or anyone) think that just because they are alien to this world that they are somehow super-intelligent? Just because they've flown a bunch of miles doesn't mean that they think they have to cloak or something of that nature.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
OK,

Now before anybody gets heated up here, let me throw this out there! I do believe that there is the possiblity of aliens/UFO's, but then again....if they are so advanced, why would they let themselves be seen??? Why would they fly around with lights on????
Why deal with such a war-mongering society as ours??

Well the thing about that is, maybe they don't care if they are seen, or want to be seen for one reason or another. As far as the war-mongering society, I imagine if they made a stop and felt things were getting kinda hectic they had the means to dissolve us with some beams or something outrageous.

I personally, am torn between the two possibilities of man or aliens piloting the UFOs.

I could see man testing these things in areas like mexico and the Midwest US where it gets darker earlier, people sleep at 9, and there's vast amounts of farmland, hills, backroads, and nothingness, to fly around in. People that would see them late at night on those backroads are either like my friends and I who've seen them who noone would believe as we were younger, and typical hillbilly farmers and drunks closin the bars down who are also discredible to many as a solid witness.

If it is man, then they must just make some faux pas when they are spotted in large populated cities and areas like O'Hare and other obvious places. I imagine some are fairly still learning these devices and flying at the speed of crossing a state in seemingly 30 seconds you're bound to end up off course occasionally on your slow down right?

This assumption is also my main unsupportive questioning of the man-piloted theory side. If it were man, could they really make this many mistakes without fixing the problem much earlier to where they wouldn't be uncloaking or popping out of the sky in busy airports (again citing the O'Hare incident) in front of tons of witnesses?

Mondogiwa:

"My real question is this; What makes anybody think that these sitings are anything more than our very own technology??? Is it not an insult (although not intentional), to think that our brightest minds cannot think up, make, and experiment with technology that for all intents and purposes would seem alien to us??
As the infamous Darth Vader put it, "I find your lack of faith disturbing".
I want to hear what any and all of you think...AGAIN, I am open to ideas but have been around aviation (specifically military) a lot of my life, and have seen and heard of things that are way, way, out there!! But, they are real, and they are ours!!"


TALLYUFO:

Ok, I think that it is very possible that it "could" be our own stuff (some videos/siteings "may" be), but as soon as I go over that thought... I then wonder this:

1) If it's "ours", and brainy people came up with it, why take it out and fly it over USA's busiest airport, the capitol of Florida (come on guys... it Tallahassee!) or over Mexico City, Mexico? That doesn't sound like a "brainy" thing to do to me.

2) If Darth Vader was involved, he certainly would have known (and recommended!) that the Blackbird, Stealth Bomber and "others" were developed out in the middle of a dessert (area 51)... where the "brainy" people work and play with our hard earned tax dollars... not out by populated cities. If you can get close enough to area 51 to video "something" flying around in the skies, then yes 99% sure even though "we" might not know what the heck it is, I bet it's our brainy people out having fun zooming around in some new over priced toy.

3) The military loves secrets and they love to use acronyms out the... ...well you know. So ask yourself, why spend millions on a brainy project, that does awesome stuff, then play your hand for the whole world to see. Yeah, show that hand of four aces right up there over some populated area so many can get a pretty good look at her! :O) It only takes some one nut out playing with his kids on a Labor Day Monday to spot stuff like that and then it's on Google and then thousands see... ...doesn't jive with the way our military seems to like to operate. We can't even get full disclosure on just simple "documents" from stuff that happened over forty years ago in Roswell Mexico...I donno, we (USA) have some neat "toys", and what our military "lets" us see is almost obsolete in the high technology world (other countries all ready know about it)... ...they keep the good stuff hidden, and hidden well, not "parked" up over our cities for minutes on end.

Thanks for posting a cool question! Makes the ole brain cells spark!
PS - If the dictionary was to really be truthful...
...under the word "acronym", it would simply say "see military"

Originally posted by Frith
Its my opinion that we are witnessing extraterrestrials and their technology from parts unknown coming to this planet for their own purposes and remaining as secretive as possible while simultaneously being covered up by own own governments. These ETs come here possibly for their own defense against a rapidly technologically evolving violent planet (ours).

As for why ETs come here in a visible fashion, its likely to let at least a part of the population, including our governments, know that they are here. By letting us see them then at least a part of our population understands that a superior force to our own exists. Even if it doesn't make overt contact. This allows our society to at remain somewhat stable without completely overturning our otherwise utterly terrestrial lives. So basically I see the visibility as part warning to our governments and a signpost to the rest of us to clue us in at least a little.

This is, in my opinion, a playout of our greatest fear. Often manifested on Star Trek as the Prime Directive, I believe. Where it is often re-directed that man's greatest fear is to be manipulated, unknowingly, unwittingly. Observance is kept to a minimum, and the scramble brought on by those in power is trickled down. This carries it to a level of those who don't want to know don't really have to. Minimal impact is placed on those who are of no interest, and just mindfully carry on their own beliefs. However, those who would contradict for the sake of fight and control are left on a state of high alert. Covering as best they may with high, well over, budgeted Black Projects. Hoping everyone believes that they are just being "Big Boys", when obviously in is for contraindication against something "otherworldly".

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
My real question is this; What makes anybody think that these sitings are anything more than our very own technology??? Is it not an insult (although not intentional), to think that our brightest minds cannot think up, make, and experiment with technology that for all intents and purposes would seem alien to us??

Hi Mondogiwa, I have been looking through some of the FOIA documents that are available and it's pretty obvious that the CIA, FBI in the earlier years were questioning the origin of UFOs.

Here's a great collection of FOIA docs

Here's a couple that are relevent to your question.

Air Force says UFOs are no secret aircraft.

What UFOs are not.

Even a quick browse through these documents clearly shows that the high performance aspects of these objects are not attributable to man made technology.

My favourite quote from the docs.

"I would do it but before agreeing to it we must insist upon full access to discs recovered. For instance in the IA case the Army grabbed it & would not let us have it for cursory examination."
FBI Director Hoover

I think if the military did have the kind of technology that can pass matter through matter, they would waste no time in establishing their advantage.
In the meantime, UFO's offer a real threat to government authority, so it's in their interest to create the whole complicit with alien mythology. It also offers them a nice conduit for insinuating a might is right value system into the culture.
Traditional values like altruism, selflessness, and faith aren't really conducive to a totalitarian feudal dream. So the appearance and exploitation of UFO's, that have been part of our history for a long time, is a good opportunity to discard values like all men are equal under God, and replace them with, 'there is no God and no one is equal under aliens.
In order to do that, they would insinuate these ideas into other things that would appeal to free-thinkers and the younger generation. Have them alongside a paradox to encourage learned helplessness and abdication of meaning.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by clearwater]