Calling all UFO peoples!! Your chance to explain what and why you believe!!

OK,

Now before anybody gets heated up here, let me throw this out there! I do believe that there is the possiblity of aliens/UFO's, but then again....if they are so advanced, why would they let themselves be seen??? Why would they fly around with lights on????
Why deal with such a war-mongering society as ours??

My real question is this; What makes anybody think that these sitings are anything more than our very own technology??? Is it not an insult (although not intentional), to think that our brightest minds cannot think up, make, and experiment with technology that for all intents and purposes would seem alien to us??

As the infamous Darth Vader put it, "I find your lack of faith disturbing".

I want to hear what any and all of you think...AGAIN, I am open to ideas but have been around aviation (specifically military) a lot of my life, and have seen and heard of things that are way, way, out there!! But, they are real, and they are ours!!

Thanks for your time, Peace...Mondo

My theory: Aliens are so incredibly advanced that they have actually evolved BEYOND advanced and currently has a brain the size of a peanut (those big heads they got, that's just air).

That explains everything.

Merka,

I sincerely hope to NOT insult or influence or "in" anybody on anything. I would just like to hear the background of what people think and why they think it!? Of course there is no end-all, be-all answer to the question..it's what keeps us all talking about this stuff, right!?
I have a background with aviation and am therefore biased in my beliefs/skepticism/understanding of things. I am as open as can be about possibilities as well. This is where I thought I'd throw it out there and give people a chance to voice their thoughts...a chance to be heard in a grand forum if you will!!

Thanks for your response though, they are all welcome..Peace, Mondo

Oh, sure. The gov't did it. They always do it. They tell you "we did it". Evened tassel out to show it.

What if there were an infinite supply of variousness within other forms, though, as some conject. Wouldn't it be possible to find one that may have interest in exploring. That is after all the main reason behind NASA's exploration. Other worlds, other forms. As long as it's controllable, it seems.

And, what I find interesting, the gov't had a procedure for establishing contact before the Roswell event. In case they did have technology they could confiscate. This arose from the bogies and Foo fighters observed in WWII.

Explain me, if you would, why there is such an interest in the Military/Gov't having a very outlined, specific stance on ETs. And conduct out of that leads to you being whitewashed, and dismissed.

I think one can argue, for lack of better "public' empirical evidence, that both scenarios are equally tenable: The military/industrial complex on Earth has developed and continues to develop technologies, aerial and otherwise, at a pace and to an extent far beyond the knowledge and experience of 'the masses'.

Secondly, IMO, it is just as plausible that Earth has been and continues to have 'visitors' of several species and persuasions, for reasons benevolent, malevolent, and/or indifferent. Due to mistakes, coercion, or error (theirs and ours), some of their technology has also been borrowed, stolen, or otherwise appropriated for partial incorporation into Earth's own military/industrial complex - for which there is a determined, continuous, and malicious conspiratorial agenda worldwide.

My guess is that a combination of these two scenarios is what humankind is experiencing at the moment...

Keep looking up, Mondo...

[edit on 3/20/2007 by Outrageo]

Originally posted by Outrageo
I think one can argue, for lack of better "public' empirical evidence, that both scenarios are equally tenable: The military/industrial complex on Earth has developed and continues to develop technologies, aerial and otherwise, at a pace and to an extent far beyond the knowledge and experience of 'the masses'.

[edit on 3/20/2007 by Outrageo]

Very well said Outrageous!!

I agree with you very much and especially the part that I quoted you saying above!!
I like your line of thinking sir, and I tend to agree with the idea that there is some sort of crossover or even synthesis of the two ideals.
I think that the great, and I mean really great minds of our times have the ability to come up with unbelievable things....things that can be right smack dab in frontof our faces and we just cannot comprehend what it is!!

And yes, I am always looking up...for something at least, Peace....Mondo

What makes sense to me is the following scenario; The governemnet has been testing top secret and revolutionary aircraft forever now. Somebody catches a glimpse of something that is way above their capability to understand and whamo, "It's gotta be from space!" The government says, "OK, let's roll with this thing here a little, let the commonfolk think we have the possiblity of an outside aggressor", now we have a common ground to fight for humanity!!!
When really, all aong it is just our own people doing testing that we cannot get a grip on because it's just way over our heads. Very simple idea...nothing evil or corrupt really, just covert because it needs to be. The real problem is that people get their minds to start freaking out about all the possibilities that they could be rather than the real probablility of what they are!!
Thoughts, questions, concerns, rebuttals, etc...keep em' coming.

Peace, Mondo

Its my opinion that we are witnessing extraterrestrials and their technology from parts unknown coming to this planet for their own purposes and remaining as secretive as possible while simultaneously being covered up by own own governments. These ETs come here possibly for their own defense against a rapidly technologically evolving violent planet (ours).

As for why ETs come here in a visible fashion, its likely to let at least a part of the population, including our governments, know that they are here. By letting us see them then at least a part of our population understands that a superior force to our own exists. Even if it doesn't make overt contact. This allows our society to at remain somewhat stable without completely overturning our otherwise utterly terrestrial lives. So basically I see the visibility as part warning to our governments and a signpost to the rest of us to clue us in at least a little.

As for the reasons our governments remain quiet on the subject it is my opinion that if they spoke up about it, it would spell their end. Our governments and the rich and powerful in control of them stay in control because the rest of us only know of this way of life. Its my opinion that ETs with superior technology would also have superior lifestyles and forms of government (or no government at all). Its been in our own history that our primitive civilizations become assimilated into more advanced ones when they are introduced to them. Our leaders fear such a change because it would mean the demise of their wealth and power.

I have seen UFOs on more than one occasion. I have read enough credible statements from enough people to come to the conclusion that this subject does have an extraterrestrial origin.

[edit on 20-3-2007 by Frith]

Are you saying that there were no UFO's before we were suitably advanced to make some ourselves?

Or are you saying that humanity or the government(s) have always had this technology, for hundreds, even thousands of years?

*Cough* There's some new footage in the Chile UFO thread. It may be reason to 'believe'.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
if they are so advanced, why would they let themselves be seen??? Why would they fly around with lights on????
Why deal with such a war-mongering society as ours??

Why not let themselves be seen. They have nothing to fear from us. We might shoot at them, but its like a caveman throwing spears at a tank.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
My real question is this; What makes anybody think that these sitings are anything more than our very own technology??? Is it not an insult (although not intentional), to think that our brightest minds cannot think up, make, and experiment with technology that for all intents and purposes would seem alien to us??

These sighting have been going on since the beginning of time as we know it, and even have cave paintings in which UFO's are depicted. Theres many aircraft which people think are alien, yet it doesn't mean the real aliens aren't out there doing the same thing.

Now before anybody gets heated up here, let me throw this out there! I do believe that there is the possiblity of aliens/UFO's, but then again....if they are so advanced, why would they let themselves be seen???

Who says they are "letting" themselves be seen? Given the behavior of such objects, throughout recorded sightings, it seems secrecy is desired. Even high technology isn't fool-proof. We've gone from horses to space shuttles in the span of a century, yet we occassionally have accidents still. Hell, we've got cars that can parallel park themselves...but we still have car accidents every day.... You're ascribing omniscience and infallibility to these alleged beings... You're speaking of gods...not aliens...

Why would they fly around with lights on????

See above. Also, consider that light may be part of the propulsion system and/or a by-product of that propulsion, such as ionized air, etc. There's always also the possibility that in such cases, assuming they have a cloaking device of some kind...that said device malfunctions, etc.

Why deal with such a war-mongering society as ours??

Who said they were dealing? Perhaps they are observing, possibly even ensuring that we don't spread our desire for bloodshed to the stars? Perhaps they are even more bloodthirsty than we are, and don't consider it "sporting" to attack us until our tech is at a higher level. The bottom line is that all of these questions assume the aliens think just like we do, or at least similar. This is somewhat illogical, as by definition, an alien's motives could be exactly that...."alien"....

My real question is this; What makes anybody think that these sitings are anything more than our very own technology???

There's actually good evidence against it. First, such sightings have occurred prior to manned flight. Second, consider conflicts such as WWII, where both sides saw "foo fighters" or crafts that defied current levels of technological flight. If it was ours, or theirs, then a) 50 years later, it'd be unclassified, and b) it'd be in use (or obsolete) by now, and c) it would have been used during the war, and openly, even if just for psi-ops....

Is it not an insult (although not intentional), to think that our brightest minds cannot think up, make, and experiment with technology that for all intents and purposes would seem alien to us??

No, it's an insult to think they DID come up with such technology, and then never made it to the private sector in over 50 years since the phenomenon was widely publicized....UNLESS they didn't understand such tech (i.e. because they didn't make it). If we (or anyone else) had saucer craft that could VTOL with stability, outfly our fastest jets, evade radar, disable weapons systems, etc. back in the 40's, then you can damn well bet we'd have them now (and unclassified).... Therefore, the logical conclusion is that such craft were NOT made by powers here on Earth....and that we still don't fully understand what makes them tick....

As for evidence of why one would believe....

Consider the case of Roswell. An unknown device crashes (not lands gently like a Mogul), leaves a debris field and trench, and in the small military town, many learn of it. Numerous people handle the debris, collaborate testimony, and the military even announces the capture of a disc. Then, the coverup goes into swing. These days, a coverup is a FACT. What is less clear is what was being covered up. You can believe the official story, that this elaborate cover up was to protect project Mogul, whose balloons often land in the desert, with no fanfare or security concerns (as they used off-the shelf tech that wasn't classified, only the purpose of Mogul was), and that the aliens were actually people mistaking dummies from Project High Dive (which wasn't until the 50's, when the event occurred in '47) and that the entire town is lying (including numerous ranking military officers)....OR, you can suspect that the military initially told the truth, as are the townspeople.

Then, for me, there's the Hill Case. A woman says she was on a space ship, and shown a map of a section of space. Not only does she reproduce this map under hypnosis, but it is of a section of sky not even visible from her home hemisphere. In addition, it shows stars that would only be discovered later, and nearly exactly corresponds to a specific place in space. As if that weren't amazing enough, the real kicker is that not only does she show where the stars are, but what COLOR they are (facts not even known then, only verified later by astronomers), and that they were of yellow stars, like our sun, with a travel route between them.... I'm usually pretty skeptical of abduction cases, but jeez...this kind of accuracy is simply statistically impossible....

There are other cases that offer compelling evidence, to be sure, but these two are always the ones that really did it for me...


[edit on 20-3-2007 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Freezer
These sighting have been going on since the beginning of time as we know it, and even have cave paintings in which UFO's are depicted. Theres many aircraft which people think are alien, yet it doesn't mean the real aliens aren't out there doing the same thing.

I got to agree with this. Something has been around for a very long time. Our military may have some craft out there on the edge now, but I do not think we are to answer to all sightings.

My only doubts consist of the great distances in the known universe, that about 95% of sightings are mistaken terrestrial events or objects and that ETs, from what the contactees reveal and observations, are of a different belief system than humans.

Originally posted by Freezer

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
if they are so advanced, why would they let themselves be seen??? Why would they fly around with lights on????
Why deal with such a war-mongering society as ours??

Why not let themselves be seen. They have nothing to fear from us. We might shoot at them, but its like a caveman throwing spears at a tank.

I think you'll find that goverment agencys and people on this thread would disagree with you. At least when we are just going on one persons word for some elses. Steven Greer and his "wistness" calim other wise that they shot down UFO's and at the very least the over whelming number of people believe crashs.

As for myself? I honestly have not seen anything or read anything that would make me believe in UFO and the like and i lean towards a man made or enviormental/cestial reason for lights in the sky etc and its not like I havent been looking or reading. I think they're are alot of intellgent people on both sides of the debate and this is in no way trying to prove either wrong just me being critical lol.

Insightful stuff, Gazrok, and you managed to obtain objectivity in it all.

My only doubts consist of the great distances in the known universe

A valid concern...but consider this.

500 years ago, people thought Columbus would sail off the Earth instead of reaching what we now know of as America.

Now, (or at least back when the Concorde flew), one can travel a similar distance in the time it takes to eat a nice dinner.

Distance is reduced exponentially with the gains of technology....so if you consider a race of beings more advanced than us, then there you go....

Insightful stuff, Gazrok, and you managed to obtain objectivity in it all.

Thanks, though not sure how "objective" I was on it, hehe...as I'm admittedly somewhat biased in the genre... Still, I do try to see the skeptic's angle as well, as sometimes it really helps to separate the wheat from the chaff... (and often, it makes the case even stronger)...

[edit on 20-3-2007 by Gazrok]

i belive that there is other life, in such a massive universe we carnt be the other ones. i also belive that there is life, i just say life, there could be 10 dog like cretures, that counts as life, i think that there must be 1000's of other worlds out there, i bleive some or more advanced than us, and i belive some are not.

I believe the odds are in favor of Life, in some form, existing elsewhere in the universe. Now, I don't think we are being visited by any of the other life in the universe, and we might not even recognize an extraterrestrial lifeform as "Life" when we saw it — we tend to have this hominid presumption that all alien life will have heads and faces and two arms and legs, and will be roughly of the same order of intelligence as ourselves.

Which is extremely limiting. If we were to figure our anthropomorphic bias into the Drake Equation, I'm pretty sure that the likelihood of "another intelligent lifeform" coexisting with us in this universe would fall to the infinitesimal range.

There are other creatures, however, that are far more likely to coexist with us, but which we may never have a chance to examine as closely as we wish.





— Doc Velocity

To you all who hold to the beliefs that there are UFO's, I respect your stance very much! However, the notion that these UFO's have been around for thousands of years is impossible to prove either way. Yes, there are cave paintings and legends and oral traditions and so on. But, that's it...just heresay from on and on. Maybe they have been here, maybe not..but until the most recent of times are we able to document anything at all really. By that I mean with a camera and verifiable eyewitness testimonies. Up until that point, it's all just stories that may or may not be true...BUT, no proof exists one way or another!
Now, on to the more present of times. There are numerous accounts and pics/vids or unidentified flying objects, no doubt about that, but are they of alien origin?? It is my belief that the vast majority if not all, are technologies that our own humankind is capable of. Yes, the lights may actually be a propuslion system, doesn't make it alien. Yes, they may be seen visually and have no fear of us, still no proof exists of it being alien.
How's about this, using Ocham's Razor as a ground base for all things...the most simple of solutions is usually correct (paraphrased). That being said, sift through the unknown and unlikely to the known and more likely of scenarios.

Gazrok, I cannot and will not EVER claim to know all the answers to this question, of course. You make some great arguements, and you know what, maybe if I had a close encounter I would change my stance. Yet, I have not and with my aeronautical background I stand vigilant so far. Plain and simple, there's more proof that they are manmade to me than there is to say otherwise is all, just a matter of opinion so far.
I love to dream gang, believe me I do...and the thought of another species out there visiting us is fascinating. But, I do think it's a bit egocentrical to think we are all that and a bag of chips, and that we are what inspires and fascinates some other further advanced species.

Enough for now from me, you have all given some great points and I think it best for me to mull them over instead of responding too quickly from emotion, as we all often do. Peace to you all, and let's try to keep this going. The purpose is to try to open all of our minds, mine included for sure!

Later, Mondo

I'm sorry, but Occams Razor can't be applied to this subject as easily as one thinks. The main reason is the ignorance. We simply don't have the knowledge to make any kind of qualified guess on anything that goes on Outside of the solar system.