Bob Lazar and Element 115

reply to post by LUXUS


Well, honestly, the F-117 was developed at Area 51 in the late sixties.

It's currrenty 2011 and we have little idea of what goes on at Area 51 or elsewhere. What we do know is that the base is bigger and more active than ever before and is still expanding.

While I was in the Air Force, I talked to 2 different people that worked at Area 51. One of them clammed up anytime you asked them about it. The other, an old supervisor of mine, would actually tell you what he did while he worked there, what the security was like, and how it was actually a TDY assignment out of his permanent duty station at Nellis AFB, etc..

What I was told gave me some real insight into what goes on there and why. You can be working right next door to someone and have no idea what they're involved with.

Also, Area 51 isn't the only military installation that recieves black budget funding. In Airmen Leadership School we were given a speech one day by a full bird colonel. I can't remember his name but I know he was a commander of either a medical squadron or possibly a commander at the Wing level (this was 8 years ago so it's tough for me to remember which).

He pretty much flat out told us that black budget programs were taking place there (Eielson AFB). It was interesting to hear from a medical commander. Since then, Eielson AFB has been downsized and was almost closed a few years ago. But my overall point is that the government almost treats Area 51 like a lure for conspiracy theories and public curiosity when it isn't the only base or site that recieves black budget funding.

It is quite possible that a site like "S-4" really does exist and that Bob Lazar isn't giving us the whole story. Possibly in fear for his life and/or for his family's safety. We also know that it is absolutely possible that the government could've destroyed his educational, medical and employment records for "damage control" purposes.

Especially since some evidence exists to support his claim that he was a physicist working at Los Alamos. Isn't it curious that the only solid evidence that support's Bob Lazar's claims is evidence the government wouldn't have been able to destroy? Then we have all the anonymous sources that have contacted George Knapp to claim they worked with him at Los Alamos and they support Bob's argument that he really did work at Los Alamos National Laboratory as a physicist.

-ChriS

Almost all of the scientists working at LANL at that time would be paid by and employed by the University of California, the prime operating contractor. There are a few actual DOE administrators who are on Federal payscales but most were, and still are not, DOE employees.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Also, every airplane, hot air balloon and helicopter possess antigravity. Sometimes, beach balls, too.

Yes exactly!! I just don't understand why someone didn't come up with more credible term. At least 'gravity shielding' is closer

Originally posted by BlasteR
We also know that it is absolutely possible that the government could've destroyed his educational, medical and employment records for "damage control" purposes.

You might think that, but "we" don't know that.

How would they have eliminated Lazar from the yearbooks?

Regarding the earlier article about him being a physicist, all that really proves is that his "puffing" or exaggerating what he did began before he became famous.

Have you read this timeline? Your posts suggest you haven't read it, maybe you should.

The Robert Lazar Timeline As Assembled from Public Records and Statements

This project began as an attempt to verify Robert Lazar's story of "vanishing records". What was uncovered was not only a multitude of records, but records that portray an individual and story very much at odds with that generally accepted. Some of these records appear to contradict statements made by Lazar.

Every attempt has been made to make this document as accurate as possible. If any discrepancies are found, please direct them to the author for correction in any future versions.

And if you know of any discrepancies with that timeline, please also let us know in the thread here.

It doesn't support a claim of vanishing records. And it mentions the yearbook:

"1977 or 78":
Claims to have attended Cal State University, Northridge, "for a short time for some classes", then on to CalTech.(14)

"The Big T" is the student yearbook for CalTech. At the Millikan Library at CalTech, every page of every issue of "The Big T" from the year 1977 through 1982 was checked. There is no photo or mention of RL anywhere in any of the activities, highly improbable were he a student there.

Not only does that suggest he didn't get a degree from Cal Tech, but the public records say where he really got his "degree" from:

1978:
RL claims a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics and Electronic Technology, from Pacifica University (correspondence university), according to RL's Pre-Sentence Report for his pandering conviction (Case 94922). Pacifica was shut down in 1978 by the State of California for selling degrees.

So in his pre-sentence report he says his degree is from Pacifica, not Cal Tech. This looks more like he lied about Cal Tech because he didn't want to admit his diploma came from a diploma mill instead of a real school. It doesn't look like his records were scrubbed. Maybe he thought nobody would check his pre-sentence report?

Originally posted by BlasteR
Especially since some evidence exists to support his claim that he was a physicist working at Los Alamos.

If you read this thread carefully, you'll discover that it's a lot more likely (and in an overwhelming way) that Bob was a subcontractor, and his entry in the phone book was marked as such. It is a common practice at national labs (I work at one). Bob was in film processing business at this time, according to some sources.

It looks like the 'Big Lie' technique really works (which is an exaggeration because Bob is not that big of a deal) -- you repeat something one million times, and it is perceived as true.

There were claims on ATS about 2 or 3 years ago that Bob "was back at Los Alamos". I checked the phone book and he wasn't in. All made up, it seems.

As to what evidence the government can and cannot destroy -- I'm not going to repeat myself over and over again. To erase a scientist's identity from tons of copies of refereed journals and from memory of conference participants is way more fantastical than assuming that a squadron of fully functional UFOs is now parked at Area 51.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
It is a common practice at national labs (I work at one).

Well if you repeat that a few more times, maybe we will believe that in time

because Bob is not that big of a deal) --

That and the fact he removed himself from the circuit is what got me wondering why he is suddenly dragged out of the closet. Do Ed's and Stanton's presentation so desperately need to focus on debunking Bob? Can their story not stand on its own merit?

I suspect the latter is true... they invoke Bob's name simply because it will get attention... then they can spin their tale. After all despite Stanton saying over and over that "Some UFO's are alien spacecraft" in the end he has no more proof than anyone else. So does him having been a 'Nuclear scientist' make his claim any more believable than Bob's? In fact many in the field refer to him as 'Dr. Friedman'... incorrectly

I am curious if anyone ever checked his credentials as closely as Bob's... I see Ed' going out of his way to create documents to prove what he did... yet his story on S4 and the TR3B in the end by his own admission, are just hearsay...

From Stanton's biography

Nuclear Physicist-Lecturer Stanton T. Friedman received his BSc. and MSc. Degrees in physics from the University of Chicago in 1955 and 1956. He was employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist by such companies as GE, GM, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, Aerojet General Nucleonics, and McDonnell Douglas working in such highly advanced, classified, eventually cancelled programs as nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets, and various compact nuclear powerplants for space and terrestrial applications.

www.stantonfriedman.com...

So here we see he was "a nuclear physicist" for 14 years, hopping around from one canceled program to the next. But in the next paragraph of the biography...

He became interested in UFOs in 1958, and since 1967 has lectured about them at more than 600 colleges and 100 professional groups in 50 U.S. states, 9 Canadian provinces and 16 other countries in addition to various nuclear consulting efforts. He has published more than 90 UFO papers and has appeared on hundreds of radio and TV programs including on Larry King in 2007 and twice in 2008, and many documentaries.

www.stantonfriedman.com...

So it seems he found the UFO field more lucrative than being a nuclear physicist Maybe that explains Bob's payslip But the dates don't make sense. He got his degree in 1956 worked 14 years as a physicist but started heavy touring in the UFO field in 1967. And he even says "various nuclear consulting efforts"

Well believe what you will but I think he needs Bob as a whipping boy to keep his audience entertained.

And Ed has recruited a team of followers that every time you ask a tough question of Ed, you get a barrage of Bob attacks in reply to attempt to misdirect people from the question. (On another forum... Mods here didn't put up with it for long)

So yeah, I agree that Bob's story is far from airtight... but I find it very interesting that these others need to drag him up to make their case.

So far NOT ONE whistle blower has done more than tell us a good story. Doesn't mean the stories are not true... but until someone actually backs up their story, no amount of degrees, no amount of documentation where you worked, makes any difference. It is still just an opinion

reply to post by zorgon


Actually the centre of the sun is black, not only is it black but its cold too!
Around this central core the gasses form strata so that the sun is layered. Outside, the surface is hottest because the stream of energy flowing towards the central core excites the outermost layer.

Several people have tried to give America free energy but it never turns out well. Whilst the American people might want free energy the government don't want you to. As I said before fuel tax is a heavy drug to quit. The government will probably then move to hydrogen because they can sell that to you and make money. They don't want you to have a magic box in your basement which means you wont need them.

Unfortunately a gravity modification device is not something you can build in your shed with a few parts from radio shack. I know there are many fakes, John searl and his seg is an example of this

I watched this video earlier today. It's produced by Lazar and makes for an entertaining view. I am still skeptical but liked his presentation.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by LUXUS
So you ask how an atom produces gravity, it is due to the fact that every atom has an area of negative energy density at is core (exotic matter) this core has a polarising effect on the local vacuum energy.

Very cool! And how particles other than atoms produce gravity?

This universe exhibits fractal qualitys and the same holds true for all particles.

reply to post by BlasteR


The sad thing is that good people with the best wishes spent time producing tec which is shelved and stored by these black programs, classified into oblivion so that they cant be touched or used. What a waist of a life and how much crap do they need to accumulate anyway?

Originally posted by LUXUS
Actually the centre of the sun is black, not only is it black but its cold too!

I liked Dan Tanna's version better, has more life to it

But Nassim Haramein will tell you that it has a black hole in the center... Ah well

Several people have tried to give America free energy but it never turns out well. Whilst the American people might want free energy the government don't want you to. As I said before fuel tax is a heavy drug to quit. The government will probably then move to hydrogen because they can sell that to you and make money. They don't want you to have a magic box in your basement which means you wont need them.

I am all for free energy... I even put a free energy device in my house last year and now my winter heating bill is almost zero It's a wood burning stove I got from John Lear's mine when we closed it down and my three mulberry trees that shade my house produce LOTS of free wood.

But it's not only about taxes... The economy is already in a slump, thousands of people out of work and loosing home. So now you give everyone free energy.. what happens? All the jobs in the energy industry... miners. oil riggers, transport business, desk jobs, linesmen, service station attendants etc etc etc will suddenly vanish.

Until you can come up with a system to convert (or transition) a society to a free energy you will create chaos. NO politician will be the one that starts that collapse. Sure eventually it will recover but at what cost? And it sure won't recover in the term of office of any of them

Hydro electric power is free energy... gravity is nature it spins turbines and makes free electricity... it is the service to your door that you pay for. Water is free... go to any lake or river and help yourself... it is the convenience of turning on your tap that you pay for.

Tesla made an electric car... then put a device on the power plant to send the power through the air. Great but he was stealing that power from the station, the same way you can collect it if you live under power lines (well they did make that illegal now )

So now you make a box like Moray did... you teach everyone in the world to make their own box... or you get a contractor to make them, even though that contractor knows his company is doomed as soon as he makes them...

But now all those millions of energy related jobs... POOF gone overnight. And the trickle effect of support businesses

So its easy to say "We need free energy now" but the reality is not a cut and dry matter to implement

Unfortunately a gravity modification device is not something you can build in your shed with a few parts from radio shack. I know there are many fakes, John searl and his seg is an example of this

Well his first one supposedly went through the roof... But if we can't build one in the garage, then it is a moot point, because 'THEY' won't make one for us.

So for all your saying it is real, end result is my spaceship still needs a propulsion device

Bob Lazar at MIT?



Well no not really but it sure looks like him doesn't it?

But he is from MIT

It is one of the wacky crew in the Electrical Engineering and Computer Science department, MIT.

Seems they had nothing more important to do than study the effectiveness of Tin Foil Hats

On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets:
An Empirical Study
berkeley.intel-research.net...



Seems MIT is the right place for Bob like characters

Originally posted by BlasteR
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Well, honestly, the F-117 was developed at Area 51 in the late sixties.

Very wrong actually, it was developed at Burbank, California and in the mid 70's. Just where did you get your false info from?

Originally posted by LUXUS

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by LUXUS
So you ask how an atom produces gravity, it is due to the fact that every atom has an area of negative energy density at is core (exotic matter) this core has a polarising effect on the local vacuum energy.

Very cool! And how particles other than atoms produce gravity?

This universe exhibits fractal qualitys and the same holds true for all particles.

Great. I feel we are getting somewhere.
So, what's the answer to my question anyhow?

reply to post by buddhasystem

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by BlasteR
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Well, honestly, the F-117 was developed at Area 51 in the late sixties.

Very wrong actually, it was developed at Burbank, California and in the mid 70's. Just where did you get your false info from?

Here for one...

Early static prototype of a very Top Secret F-117 at the very classified Groom AB.
We called it ‘Have Blue’ back then. This smaller proof-of-concept model of the F-117 first flew at Groom in December 1977. Testing of a series of ultra-secret prototypes continued there until mid-1981. (Edgar Fouche was stationed at Nellis AFB from76-80) Groom was a short airplane or helicopter ride from Nellis AFB.

The guy to the left of Edgar Fouche is Bob Green, Avionics & Computer Engineer, and C*A employee. The little guy to the right of Edgar Fouche is CMSgt. Billy Snodgrass (A&E specialist) who has a niece who was a well known actress.

Edgar Fouche worked with Bob at the Flight Operational Test & Evaluation (FOT&E) center at Edwards AFB (CA) where they did R&D on the F-111, F-15 & F-15 Streak Eagle, A-9, A-10, original B-1, and other still classified prototypes. We also worked together at Nellis AFB & Groom AB (NV), and we both had offices at Kelly AFB (TX) in the mid 80s when I was the SAC Liaison. Bob was in Saudi and Diego Garcia during both Iraqi wars. Now retired.

No I can’t tell you where I got all of my photos. It’s pretty obvious.
The guy who took this photo worked for Bob Green.

www.alienscientist.com...

reply to post by zorgon


Reverse engineering at its finest. Speculation and hearsay aside, there is a connection.

reply to post by zorgon
First I don't think alienscientist is a very reliable source, he's so open-minded his brain looks like this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/79e0928efa27.png[/atsimg]He has some facts right, but way to much BS mixed in with the facts for me.

This source has the same picture: www.f-117a.com...
So is that why he can't say where he got the picture because he took it off that site?

Second, even if that's a true picture and caption which it might be, there's no date showing it was in the 60's, and there's nothing in the picture or the caption that says it wasn't developed at Burbank CA as dereks said.

At the most that suggests it was tested at Groom Lake, not that it was developed there.

The C-5 would ferry the fighter and its support crew into a base (quietly and discreetly at night) within striking distance of its target.(Note: this was how many of the first aircraft were delivered to Groom Lake. In fact, the image to the right shows a crated up Senior Trend F-117A being loaded aboard at the Skunk Works in Burbank.

Well now we know one method of getting the planes from Burbank to Groom Lake to test them.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Am I the only one who see's the beatnik on the right and Charlie Brown in the middle?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
This source has the same picture: www.f-117a.com...
So is that why he can't say where he got the picture because he took it off that site?

No the caption is the words of Ed Fouche, but he talks about himself in the third person a lot... so it gets confusing

Now this other image from your link (thanks ) shows the same hanger



I need to know where that hanger is... but it may be that all the hangers look the same so it may not be easy. I see no mention of Ed Fouche on that site you linked me too... I think I will try to write the guy who made your site and see what I can get on that image. Ed id supposed to be the tall Charlie Brown guy.

Yeah a date on that image would be awesome