Bob Lazar and Element 115

Re: the pay stub.

The pay stub posted here demonstrates that Bob Lazar, while allegedly working on the most secret and most important project of all time, was in the same tax bracket as a postal worker, i.e. 15%.

Is it really how much his services were valued? BFFT, we talked about the minimum wage and such in a different thread, and you said that employees get as much as they deserve -- what do you make of super secret nuclear expert who's shaking hands with Zeta Reticuli ambassadors and is getting paid $25k for that?

ATS bug.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Lets just say that I was a government agent set to oversee an employee that, while he had good stuff to offer us not easily available elsewhere, he also fit a psych profile that put him in a "high risk" category for blowing the whistle.

Would it not behoove me and my agency for me to protect us via the age old "plausible deniability"? It would explain the fact that we know he worked there as a physicist, but cannot find proof that he was educated as such. And how he could have a job there that would only net him $1000.

You assume that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. That assumption is what folks like the CIA count on to hid their ugly toes.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I consider it a smear campaign because it is poorly researched by the initial people, and then shared here with little to no context.

This element 115 business was promoted at the UFO geek of which there are lots and it has worked. Ask any UFO geek about how anti gravity is produced and you are guaranteed for them to inform you that element 115 is needed. And that's why boys and girls we will never have anti-gravity as long as you promote this rubbish!

The truth is anti gravity was produced long ago and not even a grain of element 115 was necessary. The government would rather you invest your energy's investigating element 115 because it is something that can never be produced. They don't want you to investigate the German man made UFO technology because that's where the real story began.

But that's the fault with humans, they always go after something which is out of their reach rather then go for that which could well be within their reach.

The world now needs this technology desperately but unfortunately anti gravity drives produce a byproduct which causes the governments much difficulty.....they also tap into the zero point energy and thus produce unlimited free, clean energy! How much do you think the government gets from fuel taxes, you think they are going to give that up? But in the end it is the greed which is in the harts of these people which will remove them from power, nature is preparing as I type this to wipe the slate clean!

reply to post by buddhasystem


15% tax bracket and 25k....sounds about right if he was processing photos the previous year...

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Re: the pay stub.
The pay stub posted here demonstrates that Bob Lazar, while allegedly working on the most secret and most important project of all time, was in the same tax bracket as a postal worker, i.e. 15%.

What is funny is that most skeptics argue the pay stub is a fake because there is no department of naval intelligence but then say it's real when they discuss pay amounts.

Hilarious

Talk about comic relief

Originally posted by zorgon
Not sure if yawl saw this one yet... Nice stuff

Was saving it for a rainy day

Project Aquarius
(Special access intelligence revealed from the “Dark Side of the Moon”)
http://(nolink)/pdf/PROJECT_AQUARIUS_DOCUMENT.pdf

Excellent stuff there. just went thru it all and now I have a lot more researching to do lol.. ty

Need backround stuff on Dr. Dan Burisch..

Originally posted by LUXUS
The truth is anti gravity was produced long ago and not even a grain of element 115 was necessary. The government would rather you invest your energy's investigating element 115 because it is something that can never be produced. They don't want you to investigate the German man made UFO technology because that's where the real story began.

Raally? You mean Mercury Vortex technology by Victor Schauberger that is even more promoted by the UFO crowd than E115? It is claimed by many that the TR3B has such technology and all triangles which are now the hottest sightings are TR3B's using Mercury vortex engines to produce 'anti-gravity' This tech supposedly goes back to the Indian Vimanas...

But there is just as much proof of that theory as there is of Bob's story.

The term 'anti-gravity is wrong anyway. Anti-gravity implies a force equal and opposite to gravity. That would be useless to fly a spacecraft as the two would cancel each other out, most likey violently like matter/anti-matter

A magnetic levitation device is 'anti-gravity' as understood by the UFO crowd... here you have a classic saucer shaped disc defying gravity.



The skeptics will scream "That isn't anti gravity, it's magnetic levitation!!!" Well looks like it is floating in the air to me... so what happens if your ship has a strong magnetic field in relation to Earth's dipole magnetic field?

Here we have another disc floating and spinning in the air... this time using super conductors



Again this is levitation, not 'anti-gravity'. Eugene Podkletnov has similar experiments though despite his constant denial that his experiment is 'anti-gravity', it is that term that got him ostracized from main stream science

But that's the fault with humans, they always go after something which is out of their reach rather then go for that which could well be within their reach.

Well then please be so kind as to show me where we should look for anti-gravity that IS within our reach. All I see is oodles of theories and projects. Even Alienscientist who claims to have all the answers has many videos out on all aspects of 'anti-gravity' but even he had to redefine what the term means... and after all is said and done, despite his lengthy and thorough presentation... there is still no PRACTICAL application.

You say it is a fault with humans... yet can YOU produce results? Zero point is still only a theory as well. And you forget the long list of restricted research that the DoD keeps track of

The world now needs this technology desperately but unfortunately anti gravity drives produce a byproduct which causes the governments much difficulty.....they also tap into the zero point energy and thus produce unlimited free, clean energy!

Can you provide ANY proof of this tapping into zero point energy? Even Hal Puthoff hasn't shown us practical results yet

How much do you think the government gets from fuel taxes, you think they are going to give that up? But in the end it is the greed which is in the harts of these people which will remove them from power, nature is preparing as I type this to wipe the slate clean!

True greed rules the planet and the system is decaying... and if as you say nature is about to wipe the slate clean, then talking about anti-gravity is a moot point because no one will be around to see which version is true.

So... got some proof that "nature is preparing as I type this to wipe the slate clean" or is that also speculation?

Originally posted by zorgon
What is funny is that most skeptics argue the pay stub is a fake because there is no department of naval intelligence

but then say it's real when they discuss pay amounts.

Lazar is on the ufowatchdog hall of shame, here's the link:

www.ufowatchdog.com...

They don't know if the W-2, or "pay stub" as you called it, is a fake or not:

Is it real or is it Memorex?

We don't know. The street address is real (and ironic: James Lovell commanded the ill-fated Apollo 13 mission.) It is a real address in Las Vegas, though the zip code is now different--not unusual for an expanding city. We found the house on Google earth. The amount of wages is very small. Even at 1989 wages this could not possibly be for more than a couple of weeks. A Japanese researcher says that the social security number, here redacted, belonged to a New York woman, but at this stage we can't verify that one way or another. Of course, the entire document could be 100% fake. There's nothing on the document that 'proves" Lazar worked at Area 51. Further, there is no such thing as the 'United States Department of Naval Intelligence.' Navy departments are usually called 'commands.' Anyone could have typed up one of these on an easily available form. Note: Nevada does not have a state income tax.

Zorgon, you nailed that one about the claim that "there is no such thing as the 'United States Department of Naval Intelligence.'"

But I see there that they attributed the claim about his SSN belonging to a woman to "a Japanese researcher" but they were also (like me) unable to verify the claim.

The one thing they do seem sure about is that he lied about his education:

The best thing Lazar could do is come clean on why he clearly lied about his education. It's not unheard of for people to do this, but it casts a killer light on his story. Nobody cares about a pandering charge, but MIT? C'mon, Bob. Come clean.

Regarding the "smear campaign", claiming to be an MIT graduate and then not being able to back it up is like painting a bullseye on ones self asking to be the target of a smear campaign. There are limits to what the spooks can do. Locating every yearbook from MIT and eliminating one person from the all those yearbooks might be beyond their capabilities or if they did it, there would be too many people who might come forward to tell the tale that some agents showed up to get their yearbook and ripped a page out of it or something.

The hall of shame also refers to this article by Glen Campbell:
Bob Lazar - True or False?.

Unfortunately, that answer is False.

I don't mean this as an insult to Mr. Lazar. He's an incredibly creative and intelligent guy. I also don't mean to denigrate Lazar's many supporters. One thing I learned while studying Area 51 is that you don't mess with people's religion. Lazar, I believe, has a right to make his claims, and people have a right to believe him.

Actually I'd like to believe Lazar, wouldn't that be cool if his story was true?

And I sort of like him for some reason, I suppose because as Zorgon said, he's probably fun to hang around with his homemade fireworks, geeky experiments and what not. But the fact that I like him and want to believe his claims isn't enough.

Lazar and John Lear are part of a disinfo campaign. I think all of this alien stuff is disinfo.

Lazar poses as somekind of freedom fighter bringing us aliens, hydrogen cars and dangerous chemicals with his company.. when in reality he is part of a group suppressing super technologies. It's the perfect cover.

This is why the government both discredits him by erasing his history and yet gives him credibility by reinstating him at Los Alamos.

The reason I feel this so strongly is because my dad witnessed the same craft he claims is alien in the late 60s.

From what I have learned this tech came from the germans after WWII. I think the scientist Viktor Schauberger was the godfather of all this.

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by BlasteR
as a physicist working at Los Alamos, which is exactly what he claims.

So where and when did Lazar get his degree? A simple question, yet one with no answer!

Yet, there is evidence that he worked for Los Alamos and people have come forward to claim they worked with him there.

Bob Lazar - Wikipedia

Lazar first jumped on the media map in 1982 in the Los Alamos Monitor. The article titled "LA MAN JOINS THE JET SET - AT 200 MILES AN HOUR" was about a jet car that Lazar had created and worked on for years with help from a NASA researcher. The car was built from a jet engine modified and placed on an existing car model. It is also important to note that the article noted Lazar as "a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility", as it is one media article that puts Robert on the map as a physicist.

There are some things that we can verify because the government can't destroy everything. For example, the article of him in the local paper and his name in the phone book while he sais he worked at Los Alamos. Also, George Knapp claims that multiple people that worked with Bob Lazar have anonymously confirmed that they worked with him while working at Los Alamos.

So we have to consider the possibility that all of his employment and educational records were destroyed by the government in an effort to discredit him. Call it "Damage control".

We also have to remember that we occasionally see blatantly published disinformation about Area 51 and what goes on there.



In 1997, when the above magazine was released, I bought it when I saw what was on the cover.
But what the article claims is absolutely false. The author claimed that Area 51 was closed and efforts relocated to the "Green River Complex" in Utah. We now know this never happened. In fact, efforts at Area 51 skyrocketed back then and millions of dollars were being allocated for the construction of new hangars and buildings at the site. We also know, in matter of fact, that Area 51 continues to be an extremely active military base and even now, in 2011, the base continues to expand and is now larger and more active than ever before.

The idea that Utah's Green River Complex was home to the new Area 51 was discussed in the thread below.Utah's Green River Complex is called "The New Area 51"

It also turns out that the Author of the article in Popular Mechanics never bothered to even visit the complex to support his claims.

The entire 1997 article was a disinformation campaign that was probably spawned in an effort to draw attention from the fact that the base was not only still active but growing and expanding more than ever before. Either the Author was provided with false information and believed it or the popular mechanics Author was involved in it somehow.

-ChriS

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
But I see there that they attributed the claim about his SSN belonging to a woman to "a Japanese researcher" but they were also (like me) unable to verify the claim.

Amazing how little they know... "a Japanese researcher" is the famous Area 51 researcher Norio Hayakawa, another one who got into the field of Area 51 based on Bob's story in the first place

What got me first interested in Area 51 in 1987 was when I received from a Los Angeles-based writer named Bill Moore a copy of a satellite photo of Groom Lake taken by the Russians. He sent me a ten-page research paper on the secretive military base. I was quite fascinated by it. Subsequently I met Bill Moore at one of his lectures in L.A. In the same year, I attended a presentation given by Bill Steinman who had written a book entitled "The Crash at Aztec" in which a chapter was devoted also to the mysterious base in Nevada.

In October of 1988 I had an opportunity to watch an interesting two-hour syndicated TV program produced by FOX television entitled "UFO Cover-Up Live" in which Area 51 was briefly mentioned. Also in October of 1988, a researcher by the name of Tal Levesque (a.k.a. Jason Bishop) showed me an interesting ad for Amoco Oil Company that appeared on page 50 of Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine in which it was promoting a new technology based on new composite materials that would "revolutionize" the aviation industry. A weird thing was that there was a full-page color "portrait" of a grey "alien" right across from the page, i.e., on page 51. A strange synchronicity indeed!

In the summer of 1989 I was listening to a late-night Las Vegas radio talk show (the Billy Goodman show , which I could catch in L.A. area) in which an alleged former government scientist named Bob Lazar was appearing almost nightly, talking about his work at a secret base just south of Area 51.

www.dreamlandresort.com...

Glen Campbell also got his start thanks to Bob's story.. now today he writes this..

Honest, I'm trying to be good. It has been years since I've tested security at Area 51, and I've been trying my best these days not to antagonize authority. Still, every once in a while, authority and I seem to bump into each other. Turns out, I have been investigated by the FBI and Homeland Security! Not in the 1990s, but within the past week.

area51looseends.blogspot.com...

All this just makes me ask again WHY is Bob in the news after 20 years of silence and he hasn't come out of 'retirement'? Does no one find this curious? Stanton Friedman a 'New" expose What has he caught UFO Disease? (where they make up stuff to stay in the circuit and start believing it)

Over at the other forum there is a vicious attack campaign that would never fly here. I can understand people not believing him , but constant attacks when the question isn't even related? Something is up, just not sure what

And I sort of like him for some reason, I suppose because as Zorgon said, he's probably fun to hang around with his homemade fireworks, geeky experiments and what not. But the fact that I like him and want to believe his claims isn't enough.

Well Bob Lazar aside... isn't that all we really have here at ATS a want to believe? Since there is no one that has any hard facts to offer that we can all accept as real, the whole field is speculative and a matter of belief...

Yet we, skeptics and believers, are all here

Originally posted by 8311-XHT
Lazar and John Lear are part of a disinfo campaign. I think all of this alien stuff is disinfo.
---
From what I have learned this tech came from the germans after WWII. I think the scientist Viktor Schauberger was the godfather of all this.

So Bob is wrong but you know the NAZI UFO's are the real deal..

Well since all the early contacts (Billy, George Adamski, Howard Mengers) all saw gorgeous Nordic blondes you may be right.

Problem is people here at ATS will tell you all that is BS too..

Ya can't win

I did a search here on ATS for other threads on Element 115. Did you that John Lear posts here? I didn't, but found this thread that is quite telling about Element 115 and has feedback from the actual players in the game:

Element 115 Questions

After reading that thread, I can very easily dismiss the whole Lazar/Lear/115 thing with no boudbt, and wonder how in the world, after hearing the contradictions and ridiculous statements from those claimed to have been involved could even give this thing the time of the day.

If you haven't read that thread you guys should, it involves those that claim to have been there, done that...and of course lack the evidence and have not thing but convenient excuses as to why they can't prove it. Such is how this subject goes I guess......

I would also like to say the elements as high or higher than 115 have been discussed for decades, for longer than it became some UFO subject. Do a google search and you will find papers referring to Element 115 and it's theoretical properties as far back as 1974. It's not witchcraft or alien magic guys, its just math. Not simple math mind you, but it's just math.

I wish I never looked into this stuff. The more and more I do, the more and more I find what I wanted to believe was based on complete and total fools touting stuff that only a moron could possibly believe. Meaning, as of a few months ago.....I was a moron. Life was so much more exciting when I was a moron....

Originally posted by MainLineThis
Did you that John Lear posts here?

Really?

Nah he used to, not been back for some time. Those were the good old days

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Would it not behoove me and my agency for me to protect us via the age old "plausible deniability"? It would explain the fact that we know he worked there as a physicist, but cannot find proof that he was educated as such. And how he could have a job there that would only net him $1000.

Thanks for the note BFFT. Sorry to say that, but your Occam razor has turned into a rusty nail.

For all I know, the family of Salvadoran immigrants who live across the street from me might actually be secret government operatives. It's a secluded area. In the middle of the night, it's not uncommon to see a black Cadillac Escalade (or two) to stop by for a few minutes at a time, at their door. Some people would crawl out, remarkably short in height. Weird. Surely this has to do with some "men in black". Also, I wouldn't be surprised if their official wages were extremely small if any. Of course, the government made sure there is no paper trail. Nobody will ever guess they operate a powerful subspace wave generator in their basement (this also explains blackouts in my neighborhood, it must draw a lot of current). On Saturday nights, they play really loud salsa music and I'm certain this is to conceal the powerful low frequency sound emitted when the subspace breaks open and a gateway is formed. I once went over to complain about the noise, and nobody could speak English to me... it's a scary thought, but these people might actually be... aliens!!!

All of the above is just as plausible as Bob's story.

Originally posted by BlasteR
Yet, there is evidence that he worked for Los Alamos and people have come forward to claim they worked with him there.

correction...not for Los Alamos, but AT Los Alamos, he was actually working for Kirk-Mayer according to Friedman:

swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com...

as pointed out by ufologist Stanton Friedman, the directory includes not just employees of Los Alamos, but employees of the Department of Energy and an outside contractor, Kirk-Mayer. The designation "K/M" follows Lazar's name, indicating he worked for Kirk-Mayer, not Los Alamos. Lazar evidently worked at Los Alamos as a repair technician, not as a senior scientist.

The entire 1997 article was a disinformation campaign that was probably spawned in an effort to draw attention from the fact that the base was not only still active but growing and expanding more than ever before. Either the Author was provided with false information and believed it or the popular mechanics Author was involved in it somehow.

I may disagree with you on some things, but I have to agree that Popular Mechanics article was very strange and it made me wonder how or why they would publish an article saying the facility was practically dead in contrast to satellite photos showing evidence of runway construction, so it was actually "upsizing" while the article claimed it was "downsizing".

PM writes some very strange stuff, they also wrote an article claiming that the Roswell crash was debris from a balloon, not Mogul, but from a japanese-style balloon. I've seen virtually nobody else other than PM make that claim. It makes one wonder where they come up with this stuff.

Originally posted by zorgon
All this just makes me ask again WHY is Bob in the news after 20 years of silence and he hasn't come out of 'retirement'? Does no one find this curious?

As you pointed out, Lazar made a recent TV appearance, do you think that might have something to do with it?

Originally posted by MainLineThis
If you haven't read that thread you guys should, it involves those that claim to have been there, done that...and of course lack the evidence and have not thing but convenient excuses as to why they can't prove it. Such is how this subject goes I guess......

I think I may have read that thread or a similar one with Lear in it over a year ago, one thing I seem to recall is a claim something to the effect that they had some of the element 115 hidden in the city (presumably so government agents coming to their residence doing a search will be unable to confiscate it?).

Or was that one supposedly stolen too? I can't remember, what I can remember is they don't have any sample available as proof.

reply to post by zorgon


Firstly I calculated that Ununpentium will produce a gravity wave if it is bombarded using an Actinium source in an atmosphere of Radon gas,I know the theory is possible but it is not the only way. I believe the ETs knew we had no chance of producing element 115 and so so "let" humans have those craft.

There is more then one way to produce a gravity field John keely did it over 100 years ago! Keely describes it as a sympathetic outreach of the neutral centre of the atom. What he is describing in the expansion of the gravity A field. You do some research and you will even find that there is ancient traces of technology in Tibet which produces similar effects (technology from before the flood). None of these technology need element 115 and yes you can produce gravity using a bell device or what you call mercury vortex technology!

I am aware that "anti gravity" is a non scientific term however it is a popular term nevertheless. In reality if an object produced an antigravity field it would be strongly attracted to the Earth. Obviously it would be useless for flight

Tapping the zero point is indeed possible because that is what you experience as gravity in the first place. Gravity is nothing but the polarising effect matter exerts on the quantum fluctuations. Matter produces a localised polarisation and that is what interacts with the Earths gravity field.

When I said nature will wipe the slate clean I was not saying that all life will be exterminated but the damage will result in a shake-up of the human conciousness where they will not tolerate to be held under the thumb of the governments, will basically go to war with them if they don't listen to the peoples wishes.

reply to post by LUXUS


That is an excellent summary, LUXUS.
Please post more!