Why , When , and How !?!?!?! (Please Need Everyone Involved for This One)

*Beautiful topic* Kudos!

At first, I felt it wouldn't matter what I say here. I am so fed up with voicing my views on something, when in truth & in fact, it doesn't matter. But, I've changed my mind & will do so, for my own peace of mind. Maybe in a futile attempt to hope that something comes of it...but nothing won't.

My father was preacher. A very good one too. He would convince many people to become Christian. Before he was a Christian preacher, he was a Hindu preacher & a Muslim preacher. We prayed for hours. I prayed for hours. But, like my father, I, and my brother, always had an inquisitive nature. I soon began to doubt exactly what I was doing. Life was a challenge for us growing up. We were very poor and honestly...I couldn't really see where God was helping us. So, I left God alone...since. My father came to us one day talking about the fallacies of the bible & showing us why this & that is wrong & how this & that does not make sense. I pondered that way before my father brought it up. I wondered why is their belief wrong & yours is right? Why? Why do you call yourself the right one? Why do you have no respect for any other belief? Why are you so pig headed & foolish? Hypocritical? Pretentious? & yet, so very "Godly"?

I remember sitting in church...surrounded by, to me at the moment, the most evil people. They would laugh & smile with you...but as soon as church was over, I would be getting a lift home, hearing all the bad things they say about some of the other members. I thought it was just them though...the Reids, but other members did it. Not once has my former church, or any small church(that I know of) has helped/contributed to charity. The church is huge now! Enormous...still making a way for itself. I think I would have been poorer if I kept going to church.

My last girlfriend angered me so much. She never understood the difference between religion & spirituality. She begged me to become a Catholic, like her.
The relationship ended a while after, not because of that. Although, indirectly, her religion had something to do with it. Yes, she wouldn't mind being a preacher, except her religion won't allow women to become pastors & the likes. How ironic I thought. Sounds like a rule that a man would make.

I believe in a King. I won't call him God, I do not know its' name. I do not think its depicted the way it really is in the bible...or any book. I do not think your God is just and fair to all, maybe just to you & your people. I think we have guardians(ancestors or maybe Angels with no relation). I think that the King does not interfere with our lives the way some people think. In fact, I think he's probably out doing what he does...creating. Assigning other beings to look upon & protect us. My Angel might be your Demon! I truly believe that. Your Angel might be the one making things move in someone else's house & sending them mad!

I am too inquisitive. And because I do not have proof of anything, I am undecisive. Is the King himself an alien? Well...to a certain degree, yes. But, I do not know this. Very strange things have happened to me, things that science cannot explain(maybe in the future). But these things make me believe that we aremore important than we think. We are important. Not our human shells, not our big cars with seat warmers. Those are accessories to make your body comfortable. Make your small mind feel better that we have more than the other guy. I remember one time while travelling home it hit me. I understood exactly why we, or I atleast was here. Funny I can't remember the reason. It hit me twice...never again. It's frustrating. But...so be it.

I believe you should live good and everything else will revolve around that. I do not believe in faith, as everyone's faith is different. Maybe that's just the thing...maybe it's not about all of us. But about you. You and I are not the same. We aren't protected by the same things, we do not live the same & we clearly aren't the same species, physically yes...mentally...no.

As for religion...to hell with religion!

[edit on 25-4-2007 by sdrawkcab]

There is only one way to get to the place that the God that I serve is preparing for us. And the odd thing is he made this universe or at least earth in 6 days. And he has been preparing this other place for a couple thousand years. WoW ... There has to be more to that then just preparing another place. But anyways, my redeemer lives.

Hi Everyone, this is my first post here. I came here looking to see if anyone thinks the way I do. I saw this thread and decided to start here.

First, this is my background: I was raised Jehovah's Witness, but was never really into it. But my parents made me go to meetings, and in order to stay in their good favor, I did what they wanted. I wanted more than anything to have my fathers approval, so much so that I even became an Elder. When I realized nothing I did was going to make him proud of me, I stopped trying. I got tired of being told what to do and how to do it, so about 7 years ago I just walked away from it all. I should add that I am 41 years old and still married to a witness.

Many ex-JW's who have been disfellowshipped are pretty vocal about their experiences. I was not disfellowshipped or reproved in any way, I just left it all. Personally, as far as religion is concerned, I don't care what people want to believe. It doesn't effect me.

I hate religion, and I don't believe in GOD. I do however believe in the existence of superior beings. Little green men? No, but in the gerneral sense, what are angels? Aren't they "aliens"? Non-humanoid beings who are mentioned throughout the Bible who have had contact with humans here on Earth.

These spirit beings are superior creatures who could have created us, but to have only one worshipped as a God, I can't accept it. If God is all powerful, why does he need to battle with Satan and cast him from heaven? There must be many powerful "angelic" creatures out there. Humans feel the need to worship a Higher Power (why, I don't know), but it sure seems like slavery to me. Religions by nature are used to control people and direct them along a specified path or direction. How many christians are waiting for the rapture, to be taken away to heaven? The funny thing is they think this is a GOOD thing! I have no desire to be anyones slave, not even GOD's, if there even is one.

Maybe I'm just a nut, who knows?

I am born-again Pastafarian>.

We believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster and we kill no one in the name of FSM. So if religion means good and killing is mortal sin we are best religion. Ha!

My parents are roman catholic but they are not going to church... I'm not even sure that they believed anymore. For me, i'm kind of mix-up. I beleive that there is Good and evil. I believe in someone watching over us. But as far are my studies go, went to college and university... I don't know what to think.

With all the science i have done, and all the scientific stuff that i read i can't believe what the bible says. I only find that the bible is a guidance of live.

Now i have my own believes that did'nt fit with any religions. Some are Christian, some are Buddist but most of them is my own thinking.

Originally I was raised as a roman catholic, I was baptized, recieved my first commnion, and confirmed. After that I was throuroughly turned-off by the perspective of god being in a church. The pepole in the church wee dull, staganant, seemingly soulless people. They liked to take MY inventory, and that really ticked me off. Shortly after that I had two jobs, which was a good excuse to not attend church. I began associating myself with people who had different and very radical beliefs. Most of them being agnostic, or atheist. For a while after that my religion was snowboarding, it was the only thing I did that would calm me and give me peace.
Upon graduating high school I began attending college at a local, and very accredited engineering school. Pretty soon I discovered above top secret. I began to do research on every world religion, which included reading many books, long hours of internet research, and much dissatisfaction with religion in general. After thouroughly convincing myself that there was no god I began seeking god elswhere. The first place I looked was in the bottom of alcohol bottles, and marijuanna bags. After numbing myself completely I began doing other illicit substances. Turns out god was not there either. Go figure. After a few years of abusing multiple substances and numerous attempts at ruining my life completley, I finally saw what god was. I was reading a book entitled Arcadia by peter dawkins. I read the line "when you are silent is when god speaks," It also talked about how god puts symbols everywhere, and we must only be trained to see him to get the answers we seek. Just then I heard a loud noise outside. It was a low flying helicopter. As it passed overhead I looked over my neighbor's house to an old dillapidated gas station. There was a flock of birds, scared up by the noise. The birds were all black, except for one, the one leading the group of birds was white. Most would not even care to notice the significance of this. At this point however I was quite versed in trancendental symbolism. I had a very powerful feeling come over me. I actually collapsed to the ground and began to cry. It was qite overwheliming. Later on that week I checked into a hospital to seek a solution to my chemical dependency. After several unsuccesful attempts at rehab prior to this revelation, this trip was very different. I was able to remain positive, and had no physical or mental withdrawls form my detox. I began daily meditation, and pseudo-prayer. While in treatment I learned the true difference between religion and spirituality.
Now my belief is that everything, however mundane or uncomfortable happens for a reason. I do not go to curch. I choose to call my higher power god, for lack of any other name. I learn to see the significance and power of events and things that happen to me and around me. I ask the universal force what its will for me is. More importantly I thank it for every day that I get to live, and for saving my life. I now life every day like it is a gift, because it is. I don't drink at all, or do any mind altering substances. I have no urges to be deviant, or unkind. I am in a state of mental serenity. I am capable of seeing signs in nature, and my belief that nature is god's only text. It is the source, and everything else is merely a resource. I cannot put faith in the creations of man, I can only put faith in the unversal force that governs our lives. HUMILITY, and humbleness are the key to becoming in tune with this force. I was at my lowest point when it was revealed to me. Until that point I believed that I had complete control over my life, and had developed a serious god-complex. Saturn has a way to teach us lessons, he can lift us up or humble us at any given moment. That moment was my moment to realize that I was not in control anymore. I was dillusional and insane.
I believe that if god wanted me in a church, he would put me in a church. Somehow. But for now I practice spirituality on an individual basis. I can only encourage others to seek god by any means necessary. Even if thier beliefs are not the same as mine. I am friends with christians, atheists, muslims, buddhists, scientologists, pagans, as well as members of the jewish faith. There is no one way to enlightenment, there is no cookie-cutter religion that has a direct escalator to "heaven." That belief has come and gone. The only thing people must do is make atttempts to seek god and improve the self. God can handle the rest.

I sometimes think about the situation, just as Brody put it. On a few other topics, I asked why can't Angels be aliens? Maybe they, or some of them have evolved into a mind without a body(spirit)? Is that impossible? Maybe just a stronger, more adaptable body?

Because in all meaning of the word "alien", angels, gods, demons and the likes are all aliens.

I do understand what you went/are still going through everyday. Especially those of you who were thrown into "THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BELIEVE" type scenario. Anyways, this has been a real great read for me and I appreciate everyones input and thoughts on the subject. As for me I am still at a loss for DETAILS on what I believe. But, then I start to really think about everything and how could I expect myself to understand my god ?

Something that everyone should be able to agree on ... Noone should be able to understand thier "GOD" fully. I mean, he is your GOD he made you, he knows what is to come and what has already happened. The best we can do is dig around in the dirt to find information from the past. Somewhat FUNNY ... ...

What he allows us to learn we take with such great passion.

I was raised Lutheran, and although my mom is sweet as pie..going to chruch every Sunday and going thru the motions over and over... I felt there was something not right. It's like you ask "Why do we do this?..." and it was ussualy a just because or "The Bible says so" answer. I felt that was not enough. I droped out of the chruch wanting more of an answer. I still felt Christianity was right (my opinion) but there was something not right going to church, TV evangelests, etc... Well, I am currently involved with someone who is Gnostic. Yeah... it gets to be fun debating stuff! Well, although I disagree with what she thinks, I have at least started looking into other religions and history. (a positive thing I think). We both seem to be hard to sway away from our original thoughts both based on what we feel is correct. I still consider myself Christian but I don't fly anybodys banner. I am not Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist... whatever label they want to slap on it and change a few views. I read the Bible and do research to the best of my abilitys to figure things out. (And other books from other religions... whatever the truth would be it should stand out on it's own I would think.)
For me I think it boils down to 2 things...
1. Love God and serve him to the best of ones abilitys.
2. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

There may be a ton of other "sub-rules", but I think they all basically boil down to those two.

I agree with this last post ... 110% ... There is one commandment that my preacher had actually told all of the Seniors that were graduating this year. If all else fails and you cannot figure out what to do .... LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND PUT HIM FIRST.

I was raised in a secular family. About age eight my neighbor kid asked if I wanted to go to church with him. I accepted.

For a while there, I believed it all. I allowed myself to be "saved." In retrospect, I've felt the feelings of the "still small voice" and "the call" before in the context of mass hysteria and mob manipulation. It was an emotional response in my opinion, not anything supernatural. I felt something very similar during my days on the streets when I was involved with substances I can't talk about here.

About 9 months after joining that church (Episcopalian) I started to use my brain. I'd recently figured out Santa, et al., was a crock. I applied the same reasoning to the church I was in and found it to be just as full of holes and nonsense. The fact that they were saying my mom was going to hell for listening to top 40's music was one impetus out of there, and the other was my realization in Sunday School that the only real reason they could give for believing in the unbelievable was that I'd go to hell if I didn't. The carrot and stick mentality did not impress me even at that tender age.

In high school I investigated the paranormal; witchcraft, etc. I read Crowley, La Vey, old tomes such as the Malleus Maleficarum. I read about herbs. I used tarot and ouija boards. I scared the pee out of myself reading about demonology. This continued into my 20's. I took a ghost class run by the local historian in my community college.

Then I hit the streets in the late 80's and lived homeless for a while, where the religious delusions of fellow substance abusers were turning into psychosis. I even had a few psychotic episodes myself where I was convinced that I was tied to the "antichrist" which was an unfairly maligned being, misunderstood and unappreciated. I "saw" ghosts and "saw" other layers of time. I also stayed awake for days on end and believe now that these episodes of "sight" were caused by my dreaming mind overlapping my waking mind. Since I wasn't letting myself sleep and dream naturally, my brain began dreaming awake, creating hallucinations based on common themes in the collective unconscious.

Upon comparing notes with others in my position, I realized that we were all having the same delusions with slight variations. I don't take that as proof of a god being, but proof that our cultural basis affects us down to the very bedrock of our consciousness. We are programmed by the beliefs of our culture as a larger whole.

When I left the streets, I went to a church here and a church there, to see if I could find anything. Unitarian, Catholic, Baptist, a few others. No dice. There was nothing there, not even the suggestion of the "still small voice" brought back anything.

Then I joined friends of mine in shamanism, going to sweat lodge, Eagle Dance, and attending (but not participating in) a peyote ceremony.

Still nothing.

I don't believe in a god. Or an afterlife. Critical thinking and logic precludes the existence of such. There is no empirical proof. Just what people believe. When I was a little kid Santa Claus was real, I got presents from him on Christmas, which upheld my belief in him. But in the end the presents were from my parents, and there wasn't really a Santa Claus.

There is even less proof of a god. The world is here, yes, but that doesn't mean some cosmic watchmaker built it in his garage on the weekends.

Life is complicated, mysterious and beautiful enough without cluttering it up with superstition. Superstition I might add, that has led to war, genocide and subjugation of women and children for millennia.

I personally believe there is nothing more than this life we have now. And that life is all we are going to get. Make the most of it NOW. Do your good works NOW. There is no reward or punishment for what you've done after you die, there is just the realization in this time and place of what kind of people we are. I live an ethical life because it's the right thing to do, because everyone else has feelings and needs, just like I do, and their feelings are as valid as my own. I try to live by the Golden Rule, just not in the religious sense.

I don't need a god to be good.

Except maybe for FSM.

I managed to destroy my "God meme" years ago

I enjoyed reading your post Major. I wonder how you found this thread since it hasn't been posted on in a while. I am guessing you were looking for religion or doing some research on a certain subject. I know there is a reason you came to this site/thread/page. As I believe everything happens for a reason.

Anyways, the fact that you have heard/felt that "Still Small Voice" otherwise known as a Conscience to some before makes me believe that you have actually heard/believed in the spirit before.

Which leads me to my next assumption ... which may be WAY off ... But in the bible it says there is one unforgivable sin and that is Blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.

Which makes me ask this question before .. have you ever "Poked Fun of or made fun of a preacher or say around talking about a preacher even possibly a TV Evangelists or anything ?

My Guess is this would have been a PROFOUND Experience ... that you would rememebr SPECIFICALLY ... even though it is Unpardnable ... so you may not remember this it may have been that turning point in your life ... Anyways ... Just wondering ... May have no profound meaning at all .... I may be full of mis belief .. just wondering .. Thanks for the help and the original response.

I found the thread because someone right above me posted in it and it turned up in Recent Posts.

Matter of fact I HAVE poked fun at evangelists. if I believed in hell I'd no doubt be going there but I don't, so the point is moot.

What I was getting at about the "still small voice" is that I felt the same exact feeling when under the influence of certain illegal substances. So I believe it is a biological reaction to certain brain chemistry functions. I believed it was a "voice" due to my tender age (8) and the power of suggestion (everyone in church crying and carrying on and going I hear it I hear it!).

Doesn't mean it was god. In fact, I am positive it was not.

But this is a very interesting thread.

I'm an atheist but not in the true sense of the word i guess. I've never been religious, except for a short period as a child attending sunday school. I've never attended church except for weddings and funerals. I try my hardest not to be judgemental of others beliefs, though i'm not always successful.
I dont believe in a God.

I do believe though that the universe is a powerful, awesome living entity, and as such, we are part of it even if it does not recognise us or even know that we exist, we still have a part to play in its cycle.
I believe that there are other life forms inhabiting the universe, some lower on the evolutionary tree and some higher than us.
I believe that the sun will come up tomorrow and that is the reason why i'll continue to wake up smiling.

The core of my belief is, chaos, our lives, and every other living thing are ruled by random events, this is the universe's true nature and it is neither good nor bad, it just is.

mojo.

Mojo, I really like that post that you have just replied. It really wakes up some of my old thoughts about Cause and Effect. Little things that I have heard all my life from everyone ... such as ... (and this example is Highly Doubful to me.) But, never the less. a Butterfly flaps his/her wings across the globe possibly causing a change in the winds around the world.

Do you believe in KARMA, Mojo ?



Thanks for your input and for telling me that you had poked fun at Evangelists ... If you remember any details that would be VERY INTERESTING to me ... possibly pin point what exactly is Unpardnable ... as I have always heard god is love and loves everyone .. Just does not like the evil in them ... Yet ... Romans 3:23 says All have sinnned ... Blah blah blah ... anyways ... if this is true and is in the bible and all have sinned then all have fallen short of God. Hence none of us would ever be able to communicate Directly with "GOD". Yet, if he is love and loves us all ... is is very Contradictory.

Here's one you can chew on for a bit - It's literally IMPOSSIBLE for an atheist to commit the Unpardonable Sin. Ironic, isn't it?

And oh yeah, evangelists are just people. There's no more harm in poking fun at evangelists than there is in poking fun at anyone else.

I find this thread very good intell. on religion from everyones different POV. Thanks for all of your information ... Major, do you think it possible that the small still voice that you used to hear, FROM being influenced by society ... Could possibly be real ?? Or are you totally against the option that the voice that you heard was totally made up of/within yourself ??

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I found the thread because someone right above me posted in it and it turned up in Recent Posts.

Matter of fact I HAVE poked fun at evangelists. if I believed in hell I'd no doubt be going there but I don't, so the point is moot.

What I was getting at about the "still small voice" is that I felt the same exact feeling when under the influence of certain illegal substances. So I believe it is a biological reaction to certain brain chemistry functions. I believed it was a "voice" due to my tender age (8) and the power of suggestion (everyone in church crying and carrying on and going I hear it I hear it!).

Doesn't mean it was god. In fact, I am positive it was not.

But this is a very interesting thread.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
I find this thread very good intell. on religion from everyones different POV. Thanks for all of your information ... Major, do you think it possible that the small still voice that you used to hear, FROM being influenced by society ... Could possibly be real ?? Or are you totally against the option that the voice that you heard was totally made up of/within yourself ??

Oh, it was definitely from my own brain chemistry. I don't think that the thing I can't really talk about here was holy in any way, and it was EXACTLY the same.

This is very intriguing ... What would an unpardnable sin be to the people that don't believe that there is such a thing ?

It would be nothing ... Just like if you asked me do aliens exists ... I would probably say of course I see Unidentified Objects in the air all the time. As far as I am concerned they are UFO's. Now as far as aliens ... I am not in those UFO's so I can't won't say there are not Aliens or there are Aliens. It is not reallly that IRONIC.

Just like if you put 3 people in the same room ... two of whom speak the same language and one who doesn't ... Guess who are going to be the ones that agree on the situation at hand ?

You have to speak the same language to communicate.

What I am trying to say is you have to experience the same things to be able to communicate to someone who has experienced something that changed thier beliefs.

Originally posted by yeahright
Here's one you can chew on for a bit - It's literally IMPOSSIBLE for an atheist to commit the Unpardonable Sin. Ironic, isn't it?

And oh yeah, evangelists are just people. There's no more harm in poking fun at evangelists than there is in poking fun at anyone else.