Why , When , and How !?!?!?! (Please Need Everyone Involved for This One)

christened Church of England and would be delighted if I could be un-christened.

See little value in any organised religion as they seem to be used by many to justify many of the wars and conflicts. And some the statements made by major religious leaders just go to re-inforce my view of how far removed from the real world they are.

I actively refuse to give to any charity that has religion links.

I believe in a force in the universe, something akin to "The Force" in Star Wars

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
I believe in a force in the universe, something akin to "The Force" in Star Wars

That's exactly how I would put it as well...in addition to my earlier statements...

Do you think it is possible that this force is coming from somewhere ?(Aliens, Human Technology, or possibly God?)

Has anyone ever felt like they had done something Wrong ?

If so, Why do you feel like you did something wrong?

Do you think that this feeling could possibly be something that you could lose over time, if ignored long enough ?? (I.E. Learn or Evolve if you will to not acknoledge these thoughts )

I have been immersed Christian Orthodox from my early years. The Priest said that I was much anticipated to get inside the baptistery pool and while I was above the pool I was disturbing the waters making everyone remain silent. I didn’t cry at my dips. I just like it.
That’s a rant for a prelude… you make think, but I do not believe it was so. A girl I loved at my thirteen taught me to follow the signs. As every logically thinking human being would remain with the mouth open. The same did I. She indicated me to read the ’’Alchemist’’ a book by Paulo Coelho. If she wasn’t my love I wouldn’t have paid so much attention that’s true. In fact, she had never wanted me as her boyfriend since a balderdash I had done.
I had grown up in a neighbourhood in Athens until my six.
Later we moved at Thessalonica at north of Greece. I was going at a school near my house. Every morning I was listening to the bell ringing, taking my snack and running as fast as I could to catch a sit usually at the end of the line in the front yard rally point. We made our prayers to God. I still remember my first day. I had made cross in reverse. My teacher stopped everyone and in one moment I had been the spotlight of attention. ’’Why do you make your cross wither shins, my boy?’’. ’’Heck what a question’’, I responded, ’’What’s the difference?’’. She became so red, grasped me from the wrist and lead me to my parents waiting at primary school’s gate, who have been flaunting for my first day at school. I was never good as far as the religious matters it was concerned. After a few chapters it was like regurgitating the same and the same things. Once a month, our School used to organise walks at the local church to attend the missa cantata. We had so many laughs inside the church. Our favourite part was when the priest said:
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah…
In Greek there is a dictum: ’’after too much hallelujah even the clerical gets bored’’, which is used to express our ennui about something. As I couldn’t help myself, I told it to my friends and all the church started vibrating from our giggles. It suffices to say that my punishment was terrible.
Five years later, we travelled to stay at Ioannena, a town at western Greece. I lived with my father, while my mother and brother remained at Thessalonica, separately from us. I swear I never opened a book as regards religious affairs. Everything I learnt from history and the historical documents in which I was the best. I loved history. I loved the past. ’’Knowledge of Past elucidate the present problems and illuminate the unknown of future’’ and everything I could seen in religion were wars.
The nine Crusades,
The Schism,
The Iconoclasm,
The Jihad,
The massacre of Aztecs from Conquistadores
The early Protestantism-Catholicism conflict.
The ’’Night of St. Bartholomaio’’ is one of the massacres that even an expression is being used to designate the brutality happened that day. The arrest and torturing of Templar Nights a day that even today is considered to be cursed.
Somehow, I don’t know how, my favourite teachers were spiritual teachers.
’’Κος Πολύζωος’’ and ’’κος Τόκας’’ were my favourite ones. The soaked me with a spree of a better world. Their words had been like honey to alleviate my painful wounds. They preached about an utopian society where every human would struggle not to satisfy his personal behalf but the general, the whole… I was their worst student. My grades were pathetic but I will cut my neck if anyone from my co-student with better marks remembers what these saint humans once preached. Probably, the society itself didn’t leave any margins to believe anything utopian. I am very daydreamer to envisage such things. When a psychologist learned I was playing with my hands before going to sleep called me ’’otherworldly’’ and started laughing. That thing made me pissed. I am not calling each psychologist a jerk, but this one is needs some whacking to stable his mind. Oh, I forgot it. He was my teacher. ’’Double whacking’’.
Two years ago we moved as family back at Athens. Most of my students used to find me strange and extremely weird. I don’t know. Perhaps it’s because I have traveled in many places and get acquaintance with many of local peoples’ the volitions like a second Odysseus wandering around Greece.
Back in Athens I met my love. We seated at the same desk. At first I was not fond of her since was the worst of the girls. 4.2/10. Some months later I had no eyes for anyone else but her. Even to a 10/10 girl I couldn’t spare my sight. She was the one. She was my God. I thought God was an abstracted notion. I was wrong. My God, was Goddess incarnated and sat next to me during the lessons. My Goddess was the light. My light… When I did private lessons, one of my teachers said:
’’The worst thing is religion…’’. I didn’t let him speak. I was blind to have an unbiased perception towards opinion and denied him. I was so confused one year ago that the only thing I could see was nothing… I begun nervous and promised myself to spread my religion. So I did. Somehow, five months before the 2007’s new year’s eve I was satisfied with my friends making their cross each time we passed by a church. I used to formally and informally insult them on public when I saw they didn’t follow the proper rules our church has from such a long time have consecrated.
Today, like a second Saul who has regretted about his sins and changed his name to Paul, I use my name Dragonlike to redeem my soul. At the beginning I was a simple atheist. I had shown respect towards others believes. Unfortunately, I felt a deep impulse to spread the word. ’’Religion is a lie and God is a being, a true being the same as Plato mentioned inside his writings. The early Fathers of Christendom studied at the philosophical schools of Athens, the early years and apparently they were influenced by the ancient philosophical manuscripts and manipulated the true history to serve their new movement’’. Do I have proofs? No. But I feel. I asked my mother what she thought about and when I transferred her my thoughts, she smiled me, kissed me and before sending me goodnight she spoke in my ear. God is inside every human. I was surprised. My mother had her own worries and never told me anything about that. I understand why… She wanted me to search for God as she did at her age.
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Everyone should search about him. A non-stop search for truth. Until yesterday I was a strong atheist, if not an anti-theist, when I watched a show on TV about the ’’Lost Jesus’ Tomb’’. Everyone argued about this and that trying to support their own behalves. The priest was baying at the host that there had been no substantial proofs, the travel agent was whooping because his behalves dealing with any future diminish of the travels to the holy lands… and there was a poor old fellow with ’’half white-half black’’ hair. His words really touched me: ’’All my life I believed in God, I had been always the helpful child of my church, you took me all of my beliefs, my God, my Jesus, where is my Jesus? I feel him by my side helping me to articulate these words I couldn’t have spoken without his assistance. I grown by his guidance, by his words, by his teachings. I never heart a fly because I believed to what my Jesus said, to what our Jesus said. Why you take him from me’’. He cried while he was pronouncing these words. I felt compassion. After that, I got rid of my anti-theistic identity and I am open to new ideologies. I don’t know. Perhaps Gods is exactly next to me and I am too blind to see him.

my beleifs have evolved as i have evolved myself. i was going to use the word matured, but the concept of maturation to me implies losing the childlike wonder that helps me to see every day as a new adventure, no matter how banal the day may eventually become.

i was a christian, never second guessed it until adoloesence, but that is a typical story. i searched for a methodology that made more sense to me than the psychotropic writings of men who lived half a world away in a time that is as alien to my perceptions as my time would be to theirs. the few faiths that had modern origins seemed too steeped in complex mythologies that didn't make sense, and for a time, although doubtful that there was any structure to it, beleived that there was at least some spiritual force that lurked behind our self awareness.

i longed for structure and learned the myths of various civilizations from far east to african to middle east to nordic to amerind. i read a fantastic short story about the imprisonment of moses by the dying egyptian pantheon, i think by harlan ellison. i read a book regarding godess worship in the lands surrounding the agean and ancient cappadocia. i read stichtin and hancock and even daniken looking for glimpses at the truth behind humanity's quest for spirituality.

i feel i have a more wiccan outlook now, i see spirituality in all things, from the rock in my shoe to the cat now clawing my leg wanting me to feed her. naturally my mind personifies these forces, giving shape to concepts which i can't quite grasp. my personal belief creates my pantheon, just has it had for others from the dawn of what we call humanity. as long as that pantheon helps to elevate you to acheive greatness in the space you have acquired in the greater universe around you without impeding the progress of others is the basic premise that i live by.

of course, tomorrow i might just turn buddhist. i'm fickle like that

as for the validity and spirituality of the bible, or any sacred text for that matter, i don't believe they were divinely written but definitely inspired by glimpses at the divine. unfortunately physical perception alters the spiritual, and so anything written by man can only at best be described as opinion. if you ignore some of the outdated and literal references, the bible is a great example of how to strive to be good, but at the same time not be afraid to get a little dirty for sake of balance.

i ramble, and i wrote this in fragments while pretending to do real work.

hope that makes sense.

Some good post on this thread and some deep thinkers I would say.

I am seeing alot of people knocking around organized religion for what it has become...

I am just wondering if any of you have ever read what the Bible actually says (vs. what man has created) of religion.

I will save you the time of looking it up and post it here.

1. 1 Timothy 5:4
But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.

2. James 1:26
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

3. James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Thats the gist of what the Bible has to say of religion.

Now what man has gone and done in the name of religion and some of the sects that have been created seem

But I will ask once more .... I am not sure if everyone is just blowing off this question because it means nothing or ?? Possibly just got overlooked ...


Do you think it is possible that this force is coming from somewhere ?(Aliens, Human Technology, or possibly God?)

Has anyone ever felt like they had done something Wrong ?

If so, Why do you feel like you did something wrong?

Do you think that this feeling could possibly be something that you could lose over time, if ignored long enough ?? (I.E. Learn or Evolve if you will to not acknoledge these thoughts)

Blowing off the question? I don't think so. It's just that it's so iffy . . .
Way, way , way too many possibilities. Where is the force coming from?
Whew, lots of angles here.
I'd like to think of it as a cosmic Karma, waiting for us to tap in.

Have I ever felt like I've done something wrong? Of course. We've
learned there is a difference between right and wrong. (upbringing)
Right is good, wrong is bad. Not being perfect, mistakes have been made.
For which we've paid the price, right? The spankings, the corners, the
silence, the restrictions, the banishments, the executions.

We've been told that feeling good about something bad isn't good.

Will I lose the feeling of doing something wrong, over time?
( You mean guilt here right? We are talking about guilt?)

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Do you think it is possible that this force is coming from somewhere ?(Aliens, Human Technology, or possibly God?)

That force is what folks personify AS God....As far as where it came from, I don't know that it could be explained with words...If you believe in infinity, then it was always there, and will always be....If you believe that there once was nothing, then I am not sure where to tell you it came from....

Has anyone ever felt like they had done something Wrong ?

Whether we admit it or not, we all have.....

If so, Why do you feel like you did something wrong?

It's because morality is not only a learned behavior, but it is also innate...We just feel that is right to teach it to our young, but if we were not to do so, there is still always that positive and negative energy.....You can just feel it...

Speaking of morality being innate, I thought I would add this...

Alot of folks here try to break down words to have hidden meanings...like splitting them up into multiple words revealing a message...While most attempts at this strike me as a little kooky, one of my own that I have always liked is the word "innate".....in eight.....We all know what the shape of an eight represents...infinity...in infinity....Morality has always been here and always will...no matter how we will try to twist it....

Do you think that this feeling could possibly be something that you could lose over time, if ignored long enough ?? (I.E. Learn or Evolve if you will to not acknoledge these thoughts)

You could probably train yourself to lose it, but that energy will remain with you somewhere eternally..until your energy reverts back to it's previous state of being...

Sorry I didn't respond to your questions earlier, but I hadn't had a chance to check in...


Also, I get the feeling you believe you have done something wrong and are wondering if there is a way to forget it...Am I correct? We all make mistakes, but we could always do worse....

Is it that, or is your personal journey calling for you to begin it? If you have any need for assistance, I would be glad to help....

Take Care!

Originally posted by SIEGE
Blowing off the question? I don't think so.

[Quote]Apologies, wasn't trying to say blowing off the question ... Hence the reason I went back and corrected it to say POSSIBLY OVERLOOKED ...[/Quote]
It's just that it's so iffy . . .
Way, way , way too many possibilities. Where is the force coming from?
Whew, lots of angles here.
I'd like to think of it as a cosmic Karma, waiting for us to tap in.
[Quote] I kinda see what you mean .... I.E. Such as Meditation ?
[/Quote]

Have I ever felt like I've done something wrong? Of course. We've
learned there is a difference between right and wrong. (upbringing)
[Quote]So you are saying what I know as wrong/right is because of the
was that I was raised ?? Or possibly not even the way I was raised but the
things that had happened in my life as I was growing up and the decisions
that I made.

Do you think that it is possibly for someone to change those views that they have based thier life on growing up ?
And if so, Do you think that everyone has that opprotunity or is that possibly based on the results of how you were raised as well ?
[/Quote]

Right is good, wrong is bad. Not being perfect, mistakes have been made.
For which we've paid the price, right? The spankings, the corners, the
silence, the restrictions, the banishments, the executions.

We've been told that feeling good about something bad isn't good.
[Quote]Was everyone raised this way ?[/Quote]

Will I lose the feeling of doing something wrong, over time?
( You mean guilt here right? We are talking about guilt?)

I suppose I am talking about guilt ... I don't wanna limit it to just GUILT ... I want to leave it open for FEELINGS that are not guilt because GUILT to me is to close to the word GUILTY.... Which is saying you already did the things you are feeling Guilt over. I am talking along the lines of littler things things such as if you are married possibly looking at another woman and Lusting. Or just for a split second wishing you could have that. For that certain example do you think someone going to Vegas and sleeping with different woman plays a part to that person coming back and looking at many different woman and feeling those same thoughts !?!? Or is this just Human Nature ?

I just always post the answers to my questions ... and have learned BECAUSE I was BANNED for a short period of time ... That on this board some are going to share my views and some are not. But the best way for me to learn instead of giving information try to ask questions and Soak IN the information I am trying to get by telling what I think about a Certain Scenario ... So I try to come up with questions to my answers and post them ... As my answers are not important for me to learn more on the subject ... as I know what I know ... and want to know MORE and WHY I think this certain way in further depth then I do now ...Or even more important why someone else thinks the way that they do ... Which leaves me more thoughts to ponder ...


Just trying to Broaden my Horizons if you will ... =-) ... And you guys/gals are helping TREMENDOUSLY ...

Sorry ... to extend this post .... But, I wanted to say that I have made many mistakes ... as to stuff that happened earlier in my life that let me learn Very VALUABLE lessons .. that I would have never been able to learn any other way .... Anyways ... THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP !!!!
KEEP IT COMING !

I suppose I am talking about guilt ... I don't wanna limit it to just GUILT ... I want to leave it open for FEELINGS that are not guilt because GUILT to me is to close to the word GUILTY.... Which is saying you already did the things you are feeling Guilt over. I am talking along the lines of littler things things such as if you are married possibly looking at another woman and Lusting. Or just for a split second wishing you could have that. For that certain example do you think someone going to Vegas and sleeping with different woman plays a part to that person coming back and looking at many different woman and feeling those same thoughts !?!? Or is this just Human Nature ?

I wouldn't say you should feel guilt....It's human nature to be attracted to someone...It's because we are beings of flesh...We yearn for other flesh....

As for your example...It isn't the lust that is the problem..It would be the inability to control actions based upon thoughts that is the concern...

When you promise yourself to someone, it's up to you to honor that...If you violate it, you hurt yourself as well as the other people involved.....

It all goes back to the rationale behind the Garden of Eden story....Humans are incapable of accepting things for they way they are...We must push the limits in hopes of gaining something, be it our quest for other life out there, or something as simple as cheating on a lover....We cannot obey our own morals all the time, but what we can do is try and do our best....Once you avoid temptation once in any area, the second time is easier....If you give in to temptation in any area, it tends to lead to other weaknesses...

Hope you understand what I'm saying..I kind of rushed through that one....

My Credo

I am a human.
I am on this unbeliveble Planet under breaththaking sky filled with shinning stars..... that floats in endless Universe, whose origins and prpouse ( if there is one) are unknowen to me.
I am not alone here.... this Planet of mine is filled with life....
I belive in freedom to choose my one path.
I want to explore, to love, to smile, up to my full pontential in this once a time chance,walking here.

I don't remember where and when i became aware that there was definatly something in the bigger picture, but i do rememer exactly where i was when i felt my own perceptions change, my actual conscious awareness.

You know when your a child, your aware that your alive, yet your not on the ball, so to speak. Then somewhere around 10-14 you become more aware of what reality actually is, and what you really are... i think there is a relation between growing up and the chemical '___' (cacaoist.blog.com...), the so called spiritual molecule. From birth, the '___' levels will decrease until the pineal gland has stopped making the enzymes etc for '___' (in other words, children are "tripping", in a dreamlike state, until puberty/when the '___' ceases)

Someone posted this on page 1, forgive me for not quoting but im so tired!

"So in anything which adds to the creation and maintenance (including necessary cycles of birth and death) of the universe and in particular our world and our practices, I see God"

That makes humans God, because we create. We are creating all the time, even the movements of our bodies is creation. I believe everything is God, because everything is creating, no energy goes to waste! Our urine mite appear to be waste to us, but it is a meal to decomposing bacteria, for example.

I find this very interesting ... I didn't think of it untill I read through this post ... But I remember as a young kid ... The first memories I had when I was about 5-7 I remember specifically my 6 th birthday and I was POOR and I went to the store with my mom and she asked me what I wanted for my birthday and I remember realizing that we were poor and that my mom brought me in TOYS R US and I was looking around I remember going to the Race Track Section they were like 50 bucks ... With the little HAnd held controls ... Thought they were so cool ... But I knew that I couldn't afford one of them ... so I just asked for this big toy truck that you could push around MANUALLY .... It was like $9 and I remember thinking I can afford that ... So I told my mom that is what I wanted ... and I even remember opening up the truck and acting so SURPRISED when I knew what the toy was already ... But I remember ir made my mom happy so I was happy ... Alittle odd that I started caring about other peoples feelings so YOUNG ...

I wonder why I started caring about other people so early in my life ..???

Possibly cause my dad was a drunk whenever I was really young ... Oddly enough I don't remember any of that ... or anything at all for that matter before around the age of 5 or 6 ...

Why is this ??
Possibly my parents did drugs around me ?/

I dunno .. Just akward to me ... anyways ...

SIDE NOTE: My father is a Deacon of a church doesn't drink or smoke or anything anymore ... AT ALL .. 0 Tolerance ... Not sure if it was because of his addictions when he was young or what ... But I think it is the smartest thing to do ... Anyways ... Anyone else feel these feelings whenever they were young ?? Almost like you were deprived of your childhood even tho it was you the one depriving yourself of it ... always worried about doing the wrong things ??? Maybe cause my parents were not sparing with the belt or what not .. Maybe that had something to do with it ... Hmmm another thought ... anyways .. You will have to excuse my rambling it is not just this posts ... My brain just rambles from THOUGHT TO THOUGHT ... I think I have ADHD ... no joke ... Although I think I have been tested and found it wasn't the case ... PEACE .. UNtill tomorrow

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
I don't remember where and when i became aware that there was definatly something in the bigger picture, but i do rememer exactly where i was when i felt my own perceptions change, my actual conscious awareness.

You know when your a child, your aware that your alive, yet your not on the ball, so to speak. Then somewhere around 10-14 you become more aware of what reality actually is, and what you really are... i think there is a relation between growing up and the chemical '___' (cacaoist.blog.com...), the so called spiritual molecule. From birth, the '___' levels will decrease until the pineal gland has stopped making the enzymes etc for '___' (in other words, children are "tripping", in a dreamlike state, until puberty/when the '___' ceases)

Someone posted this on page 1, forgive me for not quoting but im so tired!

"So in anything which adds to the creation and maintenance (including necessary cycles of birth and death) of the universe and in particular our world and our practices, I see God"

That makes humans God, because we create. We are creating all the time, even the movements of our bodies is creation. I believe everything is God, because everything is creating, no energy goes to waste! Our urine mite appear to be waste to us, but it is a meal to decomposing bacteria, for example.

Deus_Brandon - thank you for starting such a fascinating thread. I have indeed enjoyed reading it.

I am a 'cradle Catholic'. A first Generation American whose family came from Portugal, a land steeped in Catholicism. Like many people, in my late teens my faith was greatly shaken. I spent a fair number of years in my early 20's being pretty angry at God and critical of organized religion. I re-connected with my faith when I began re-reading the works of Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, and CS Lewis (among others). I believe that my faith was actually strengthened by that time of questioning; it forced me to confront the 'practical' and theological issues that make the concept of faith so difficult to accept. In fact, twice I considered the priesthood. The Jesuit conspiricists here will be interested to know that both times, I considered the Society of Jesus. Both times, I felt a real and distinct call from God that this was either not the time or perhaps not the vocation He truly intended for me. Instead, I married a convert - a woman whose fresher perspective of our Faith constantly surprises me with it's vigor, it's intensity, it''s humility, and it's beauty. My bride truly is child-like in her faith, something that I often envy. I am about 2 years away from finishing a post-grad degree program, and I plan on entering the Permanent Diaconate after that.

I believe that my faith - Roman Catholicism - is so attractive to me because of it's intellectual tradition, it's history (good and bad), and the idea of a church that has a direct lineage from Pope Benedict to Peter to Christ himself. While I don't deny other traditions a rich and vibrant cultural and intellectual history, I celebrate this aspect of my faith.

Again, thanks to all who have shared. Unlike many Christians, I truly do respect people of almost all faiths - I really can't abide the Luciferians and Satanists for very obvious reasons. I don't believe that non-Christians are damned or deficient. I have learned a lot from other faiths, other traditions. I respect the agnostics and atheists. Faith is hard. Thomas doubted. Christ even felt anxiety when He completed the upcoming trials of the Passion. Religion - if it is practiced and not a once a day or so hour or two obligation - is a demanding practice. It is pretty hard to love your enemies. It's pretty hard to be compassionate sometimes. It's really hard to try to live according to a code that restricts your ability to do as you would like. The rewards though - priceless. I have found that for every precious thing - money, time, effort, love - that I have invested in the name of my faith has been repaid a thousandfold. There is a reason why some roads are hard - easy paths are their own reward, and that reward is ephemeral. The hard road, now. The very travels upon it make you stronger. The trials and trevails hammer away weakness and frailty. And anything that you've had to earn is something you treasure more than something you take for granted.

May God - by whatever name you call Him - bless you all.

I was raised a catholic, but now consider myself a christian, and my catchphrase is "it's my guilt and I'll wash it as fast as I want"

I was always taught to never say "I can do this ... I can do that ... " I was always taught to put all my faith into God. Even as far as when I wake up in the morning to praise god for the Sun and Day that he has brought forth for me to go into and to use me as much as possibly in his "WILL". Here lately I haven't been so intune with him as whenever I was younger I had a daily walk with god. I literally talked to him daily. Anyways those days are no more and I feel it in my life. Things happen to me that had never happen to me before whenever I was close to him. Now in some respects I leave him places instead of taking him everywhere with me. And then I drag my baggage back to him whenever I want him. Then I have to get through the Trash to talk to him and it is not as easy as it use to be to have communication.

Originally posted by budski
I was raised a catholic, but now consider myself a christian, and my catchphrase is "it's my guilt and I'll wash it as fast as I want"