Why , When , and How !?!?!?! (Please Need Everyone Involved for This One)

OK OK , after much deliberation. I have came to the decision that I want more information reguarding each individuals belief here on ATS. As I have found there are very very intelligent people here.

DISCLAIMER: Just a simple thread with personal experiences with your preference of religion or possibly your belief that there is/never was any sort of Higher Being and why you think this.

*Caps lock title edit*

[edit on 1-3-2007 by dbates]

Well, for me personally, the first step I took regarding my faith was HUMILITY. It was Halloween 2001, shortly after 9/11. My roommates were out, and I was home alone, and stepped outside for a smoke. I happened to look up at the stars (as I've been prone to do all my life) but this time it was different; suddenly I felt so TINY....yet part of something huge at the same time, and just started sobbing. I still cant fully explain it to this day, and I dont really care to. But from that point on, I began seeking a different path, and never looked back since.

As soon as I humbled myself before God, by realizing there was something much greater than me, indeed, ALL of us, I started becoming a different person in many respects. Priorities changed; fear and worry decreased; love INCREASED.

Anyway, there's a tid-bit of my experiences and views.
Moral of the story: HUMILITY

eyes2see

I don't believe in religion, I was christened protestant but that was my parents doing not mine. I don't believe in the church either. I think religion was created to control the masses. I do believe in god you can find him inside yourself, in your heart if you will.

Edit to ad you will see him everywhere, the trees, the water, the eyes of a baby. He is one, he is us, the whole universe.

[edit on 1/3/2007 by Sauron]

I went to a private school for kindergarten to jr. high.
A private Baptist school.
When I got out of there I rebelled big time. I was trying to convince myself I didnt believe in a god and actively attacking those that did.

After high school and in college I began questioning alot of things I took for granted. In debate and discussion I realized I wasnt a socialist like I thought I was then I wasnt a democrat like I thought I was then I realized that outright denial of any greater power was kind of foolish, to me anyway.

The public schools I attended after private school introduced me to others who had been in the system their who lives. I thought I was wrong and they were right. When I stopped being stoned and spent less time immersed in peer culture I had time to read, think and could initiate discussions rather than being led by the wave of publis adolescense.

So, after college and understanding where I was politically I decided to return to my church and see how it felt. It was all good until they passed the collection plate around. I looked all over the church and it wasnt remarkable or flashy but the elders, who lived in the same neighborhood as I did, seemed to all drive really, really nice cars and wear really, really nice clothes.

I left the church. I heard some convincing arguments about giving to the church and the community and if I had participated in events I would see better what this money funded but I couldnt relax my suspicion and distrust.

I became completely apathetic to a god and really didnt care either way. I had alot of my own things to do. I figured if there is a god hes more than capable of taking care of things whether or not I believe.

A few more years went by and I started to notice the pattern of globalization and how so many people are so eager to give in to it. So eager to submit to mans law at the cost of real liberty.

I came back to the Bible and studied some more.

My current realization is that it doesnt matter if there really is a god and it doesnt matter if we subject ourselves to gods judgement. All this nonsense about sin and whos going to burn for what is completely irrelevent and very rarely mentioned in the Bible. When it is its barely relevant to the greater purpose I see as belief in god being.

God and the belief in god is intended to elevate man. To free man from earthly constraint and mans law. Being the king of kings isnt just an uppity statement. It instills a sense of perspective that man is insignificant and any man who claims authority over another is equally insignificant. No man has any greater right to impose his will on ay other man that you do him.

Its hard for me to explain. God isnt limiting. God is freeing. Absolutely freeing. We've all been trained and taught and raised in such a way they real, absolute and true freedom is very difficult to comprehend. It doesnt mean that you can go kill who you want or get stoned if you want. These are things that we think of when we consider freedom because our concept of freedom is very limited. It has boundaries that were built by man and passed on to men through mans education and mans governments.

I think those who understand god the best are the slaves. The slaves brought to America or the current slaves in Africa. I think they understand why god is important. Its important to free the spirit and inspire courage. Without god there would never be revolt or revolution because mans law would be absolute. Sure, there would be revolts but not real revolts. Just replacing one form of mans law with another.

I think the American Revolution was truly inspired by god and the idea of absolute freedom. Politicians, business men and others tied to mans way pulled it back and kept it from being true revolution. They were quick to ensure control and government procedure.

Theres a reason the Communists, the Nazis and others wanted to limit, destroy or corpratize faith. They had to make it a product of man. They had to make it falible and corruptable to break it. The organized churches, the power structures and the politics is all designed to be subversive to real faith, real understanding of a higher power and real freedom.

I don't believe in religion, I was christened protestant but that was my parents doing not mine. I don't believe in the church either. I think religion was created to control the masses. I do believe in god you can find him inside yourself, in your heart if you will.

In my own personal experiences, I have found that many of my friends who were "brought up" religiously by their parents tended to distance themselves from it later in life. My mother went to Catholic school as a child/teen, but never really pushed anything on me. My father wasn't particularly religious, but had great discernment and insight; he was a good judge of character (God rest his soul) We had a few children's "Bible Stories" books at home, and I vaguely remember reading some of the stories (i.e., Samson and Delilah, Jonah and the whale, the Burning Bush, etc) but the true meanings of scripture were lost on me at that time. As a teen, I was disillusioned with the Church, the "established" religion, and in many respects I still hold this view. Many churches preach only "self-help" or "prosperity" type Gospels, when it's really about helping OTHERS.

In many ways, I'm glad that I came to terms with God on my own (well, through His grace) I don't feel "controlled", as I follow the Path of God by my own free will, and I obtain real, genuine joy by doing His will and trying to help others. Let the powers that be here on earth "control the masses", as they've been doing for some time. There's only one King I answer to, and He is King of Kings.

This will be short, as my posts usually are, but I am pretty much an agnostic but baptised Christian. I don't feel the need for religion right now, but I don't want to knock it, even if I agree that it can stir much conflict due to opposing ideas, througout the world. I would rather have religion find me personally, than go on a fruitless mission to find religion. It's like looking for love or something: If you are desparate and hasty, it aint gonna work in the long run. That's just my opinion at the moment though.

I'm a big fan of the beliefs outlined in the "Returning to right relationships" podcasts. My beliefs relate very well to those (Native American Spirituality). I also like Taoism and relate to it.

I have learned a lot from being raised in protestant christianity. I enjoy looking into theology from that perspective, but I've found other belief systems that I like more.

At the end of the day, I am agnostic (agnostic-theist). Pondering and discussing theology is a favorite hobby of mine however.

I really do believe there is a higher power (or many of them), but I don't like to make assumptions about what this implies, or what it is.

I grew up as a preacher's kid in the church of Christ, moved around avg of every 3 years. the church of christ doesn't believe in musical instruments, dancing or drinking, which means the other kids in the group didn't want to hang out with the preacher's kid so they could go drink and dance.

Went to the normal church of Christ college, that didn't work out, though I got some good training toward my occupation....


Came back home and finished up my degree and moved to Texas, and began dealing with some addiction issues, and found out the difference between religion (man based) and spirituality (God based).

I have been involved with churches and church groups, but not too much recently. Spirituality is within. I hang out with spiritually enlightened people, and those aren't always at church, but sometimes they are.

back when mankind organized in small groups like family & clan, up to tribe...
He seen the animal kingdom organized in what he understood as a heirarchy...a pyramid concept.

man just brought that heirarchy concept into his thinking & feeling world,
and there was created a diety 'G0d', man knew he was above animals,
so a heirarchy in the human psyche was created/modeled after what he saw in nature...(or 'ordained' by G0d, in the new religious/spiritual sense)

Its as true & real as we individually want to invest in its substance...
It is sometimes something to excape from...
It is sometimes something to excape to...
the heirarchies in nature, in social & political-economic spheres, and in the intellectual & spiritual psyche of man...is a comfortable & known commodity & becomes a shelter of sorts in the stressful nature of living...
It has a value, whether it's absolutely true or just wishful fantasy...

but i don't invest my lifeforce in any of today's organized religions
or G0d or angels or devils either

I'm Pentacostal..... yup you got it... an ole Holy Roller...

Anyway... I beleive in the Trinity, Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.

However, I do not attend church right now, have not for about 10-11 years, just fell away from it.

Upon joining ATS and spending a few years here, I must admit, there could be more to "it". "it" being the bigger picture... GOD / Aliens, or both... I just don't know...

Well, I certainly can't be descreibed as being "religious." I say I am Christian because I do believe in Jesus Christ. However, most would probably argue that my version of Christianity has a "new age" bent to it. I can't really argue with them.

As for how and why I believe what I do, I can tell you that I have been a very spiritual person probably since I was 6 or 7 years old. I started to delve heavily into different forms of spirituality when I was 12, maybe 13, years old.

I am someone who is open to just about anyone's beliefs as long as they are not intrusive upon another's beliefs. I guess what I mean is that as long as someone doesn't try to say that their beliefs are right just because they believe them, then they are entitled to believe whatever they wish.

I don't get into the who's right, who's worong, debate because I don't think anyone entirely knows. We hve all of these different religions and factions of religions within religion that all claim they have the truth. How can that be? Not everyone can be right about everything and everyone is wrong about something.

I personall think that Jesus' attitude of "Live and let live," is the most realistic approach to belief systems.

Now as far as personal eperience that has led to my belief in God or a supreme being, where do you want me to start? I have had more than one.

I am by no means one to be able to tell you what is wrong and/or right. But, I have had a couple experiences and I kinda fell/RAN away from what I felt at that time was right. I was raised Baptist but always had many many friends that were Catholic. I always had a problem with going to a man(Priest) and tell him your sins or what not so that HE could forgive you ... This is probably because I was always taught we are call created equal ... although through out life we all make decisions which may make the Pastor/Preist more responsible for his actions or his FLOCK.(if you will) ... But anyways ... I have had one life experience and this one experience is what mainly keeps me totally believing in the trinity as described above. This experience was when I was 13 and had gone on a mission's trip to Ensenada, Mexico. We were down there for a whole week teaching vacation bible school ... Basically giving out Chocolate and Balloons ... and telling stories of the bible to these kids. But anyways ... this kid came into church in his momma's arms his name was Adrian ... he had a Brother named Ivan and I will never ever forget that ... Akward how I remember details to things such as this ... Anyways ... He was sweating so bad he had pointed me out to him mom and his mom came and handed him to me. And I didn't really understand what was wrong but I could noticeably see him pouring sweat. I took him and started praying for him ... One of the other youth's there with me came over and the moment she touched his head the Sweat from him that he was creating on my body went away. The sweat that was physically coming out of him Disappeared he was Cool ... It was amazing ... God reached down and touched him while he was in my arms. I will NEVER EVER in my life forget this ... it will always keep my faith strong no matter what happens. The wierd thing is I was always taught by his stripes we are healed yet, my cousin was born legally blind ... and he is the most admirable person in the world. Doesn't ever think why did you create me like this god ... or question anything .... Although we have prayed for him numerous times and nothing ever happend to this day he cannot drive a vehicle or do many things that normal people can. Which for a while and still even to this day has me in DISMAY .... I often find myself asking WHY ?? All I can think is that he is in control and has everything in his hands. Anyways .... My best friend is always asking me questions ... and most of the time I have to go find the answers ... as he doesn't really believe in a OMNIPOTENT BEING ... He believes in the big bang theory .... this is my Best friend we can do anything together and the fact that he doesn't believe the same thing I do has never gotten in between us ...Because are friendship is always goign to come first. But I know if what I believe does come to pass and I am in Heaven without him ... It would tear my heart out ... If we are even going to remember the peopel here on the earth ... Which I am not even sure of ... Anyways ... I guess I have another question .... that this leads up too in one way or another ....

Why do/do not you believe in the BIBLE ?
(and if you do believe in the bible which one ? and why not another one ? )

P.S. I have numerous other questions that may lead to other discusions and if anyone else has any questions by all means ASK AWAY ... and thanks for the info. that has already been given my thoughts are always open for new Discoveries.

well, like a few of the posters above i think of myself as more spiritual than religious. i was raised catholic but have been told repeatedly that my veiws are much more lutheran lol.

ive just had too many things happen to me in my life to NOT acknowledge something bigger than myself.

the short versions of a few:

i was pulled out of 2 rivers as a child. i was never a good swimmer but always insisted on trying and nearly drowned twice. i was saved both times at the last moment.

at 17 i was in a motorcycle accident where i should have been a grease spot, but i struggled with the bike for a block and stopped upright in front of a church (lutheran at that lol) the thing is, i blacked out as soon as i hit the car. the struggleing for a block was all subconcious...or i had something looking out for me.

i had been trained as a paramedic, and was home visiting for a family emergency. after a whole series of events that SHOULD have prevented me from being there, we came across a car accident on our way to visit mom in the hospital (northern south dakota, hospitals are kind of spread out and hardly ever in your home town) well, there was a 7yo accident victim that i ended up having to treat as the local EMT's werent paramedic level. after not practiccing for 2 years i hit an IV stick that was tough under ideal circumstances, yet, in a ditch with only one shot (it was a really bad vein, for you medical people out there when we got him to the ER his crit was 6, he'd nearly bled out) my had was shaking so bad i can only figure i had some divine intervention to hit that stick cuz i only had one shot at it.

nearly 5 years ago i got sick. it took a year and a half to figure out what was wrong...and when we did figure it out, it wasnt great news. bottom line is i was in for a long slow painful death. i lost everythign. my military career, my civillian career. all of it. yet, getting sick changed my whole path in life and ended up putting me together wtih the woman i was to marry. 5 months after we got married my dr's found a surgical cure for me and im due to get that surgery in the next 6 weeks. if it works i should not only stay alive but make a full recovery and get my life back.

so after those instances, i cant look at the world and not believe theres something bigger out there helping us when we need it. or at least me.

and yet...i cant discount anyone elses beliefs...hell, i married a witch



[edit on 1-3-2007 by Damocles]

I believe man created God in his own image, and that is the hubris of mankind, I believe in a cosmic conscience the we are all part of like the cells in a body, some are able to see deeper into it the others ( Jesus, Mohammed, Ghandi, Budda and others through out history) I think a rose no matter what you call it will still smell sweet. We are born knowing we will die, it's the path we take in between that matters the most, not the destination, but the journey it's self.

I believe it’s important to occasionally sit down and take stock in the things you believe in. Sure, its easy to list off the things you don’t believe or have discarded because your journey has taught you better, still, it’s often hard to actually list off the things that you do believe. I learned this in a fellowship discussion group long ago. Since then I’ve had to occasionally sit down and put on paper the things that have been bouncing around inside my head.

I start with the last list I made and remove the things I’ve learned to be, well, not wrong but no longer applying to me. Then I add what I’ve learned over the time since I wrote it and go from there.

It makes things allot easier when I’m asked about my beliefs as well. Rather than having to go into a drawn out explanation I can hand them the latest list. I highly recommend this to everyone as well.

Matter of fact, I have learned that its thru the sharing and caring we have in each others lives that we are best able to grow.

Now:

I believe that before man, before the Earth, before the beginning of time, the truth existed, it’s the only thing that has never changed. It’s the only thing that has never needed to change.

I believe that unconditional love is the greatest gift you can give to this world, And to yourself.

I believe that the path someone walks does not make them holy. They must make the path holy, regardless of the path they have chosen.

I believe that if you can’t see god in everything, than you can’t see god in anything.

I believe that there is only one race, the human race, and we’re all in it together, whether we like it or not.

I believe that forgiveness is not a gift to the person that wronged you; Forgiveness is a gift to yourself so that you may go on with your life in peace.

I believe that even though we express ourselves individually our spirits are all a part of the same being, the one who created all things. E Pluribus Unum, Out of many (people) One (spirit).

I believe that my true reflection will never be seen in a mirror before me, but in the eyes and hearts of the people I share my life with.

I believe that each of us has only one true gift we can give to this world, the gift of ourselves. Everything else will fall away

I believe that political power in the hands of religion has always, always, led to tyranny. I also believe that political power in the hands of religion will always lead to tyranny.

I believe that I have yet to meet a person who could not teach me something, if I will only pay attention.

I believe that every religion or designated path is in itself a cult, for no other reason than it narrows your mind from the broader realities.

I believe that your soul is as unique as the fingerprints on your hand. No one knows what you have learned and of the journey which brought you here. No one that is, except you. That’s why it’s important to share.

I believe that hugs make kids grow. (And they’re not bad for adults either)

I believe that though I am but a drop in the ocean, I am still the ocean. So are you.

I believe that if your heart is at peace with the life your living and your soul is at peace with your creator, who ever you consider that creator to be, than everything else is just icing on the cake.

I believe that hate is a poison to the soul of the person that is doing the hating.

I believe that all who teach us leave a part of their soul in ours.

I believe that in our darkest and most personally damned moments there is a light shining brightly to guide us, and we never realize that till long years have given us perspective.

I believe that your life is a reflection of your perspective on it. If you go around seeing things as being terrible then they inherently will be.

I believe that I have much to learn, and I know I will enjoy every moment of learning it.

Love and light,

wupy

I don't believe in religion, or at least any religion that is on earth. I believe that the bible and commandments, etc are nothing but guidelines for man to live a better life and create peace and prosperity on earth. Ive grown up in a family that doesn't have a religion, therefore ive been curious my entire life (18 years old ) where we came from and why we are here.

Ever since i was 4 ive been interested in UFO's, ghosts, bigfoot, and all other phenomenon's. When i attempted to get a religion these things conflicted with each other leaving me wonder how can there be both phenomenons and religion. Well I did find a couple ways, but nothing that actually satisfied me.

Two years ago i went to a camp called Rockridge Canyon also known as Young Life. (This is a Christian organization that trys to spread the Christian religion to the youth) I found all this interesting but it didn't really get to me. Then i decided to stay and do some volunteer work there and get to learn about christianity a little more. Being the only athiest there was very uncomfortable, people always trying to tell me why i should believe in god and jesus. Well after 6 weeks of listening to people tell me this stuff and watching little speeches held by priests I couldn't help but notice how nice everybody was and how they all treated each other so nicely. I then came to the conclusion that religion was a perfect way to make humans respect each other and treat each other the way they would want to be treated.

I personally don't believe that we've found the correct religion yet, i believe that maybe other races in our universe has found 'The' religion and we just have to wait patiently for this to happen. Thats just my opinion thou.

Maybe I'm a little different, but I'm Pagan, started to be that way after one of my parents had a run in with a Priest in Europe when they were younger, and I didn't faith while growing up. Studying Wicca, loving the possibilities of being a one with nature, although I have lots of Christian friends... other than that I'm not saying much

- Azure

Mr. Wupy I am moved by your ability to put your beliefs into words, and put them out there. The beliefs themselves too... inspiring

About the Bible: I know that it is something we can choose to learn from or not, just like everything else. Many people that post here who believe in the Bible have personal experiences that lead them to do so. My personal experiences tell me "hey, you can learn from this, but don't look at it as the end all be all."

I believe that miracles are inherent to our universe whether driven by concious intelligent forces or not. At some point, I believe something did come from nothing.

As for myself, I was baptized Orthodox at birth. Baptized catholic at age 13, to get into a parochial school. Organized religion is the biggest scam on the face of the earth. Religions, no matter what kind, have squashed anything that will lead an individual to higher knowledge. Organized religion has and will always try to keep people from learning anything beyond the religions beliefs. Why? Because the more a individual learns the more independent they become from the religion. A knowlegable person will begin to question their religion after learning things that are contidictory to what they where taught in their religion. I believe that there are higher life forms than humans, or even humans that are evolutionary higher than us. We humans only use 10% of our minds. What could the human race be like if it was 50%. We are our own gods, just need need to climb the evolutionary ladder a bit.
The Bible, Torah and Koran are historical records from (religious) people, stories that have been handed down from generation to generation, then finally written down by the first learned ancestor. Sometimes stories can be exaggerated to make a point, or to show an example.
Personally, I believe that the only rule to live by is plain and simple. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Its not a hard rule to live by. We have had many great men, throughout the ages that have taught the very same rule, and they went on to form major religions!

I can only base what I know on my own experiences, and what I believe on realiable second hand information (e.g. I’ve never been to the grand canyon, but through a variety of secondary experiences I have come to the belief that it exists).

As I have had no direct experience of God, and the second hand experiences have not convinced me of something so subjective, I can’t say that I know or believe in the existence of a God.

However I have experienced a universe of incredible order, in which everything is born, lives and dies. If there is no God then it seems to me there was a lot more chance that the energy we are formed from could have been a lump of rock, a fireball, or a nothingness than the incredibly complex beings we are, with the countless intricate mechanism that make that possible, and keep us alive. The equilibrium that causes chemicals to be stable, the homeostasis that causes the cellular mechanisms of life to balance all those equilibria in all the right places, the fixed distance of the earth from the sun as it spins round, the behaviours that hold society together and infinite others, all apparently formed from a supernova that gave birth to our solar system.

The force that brought together the chaos of that supernova into what it is today, allowing things like music to exist, there lies my God. I will explain

If you look at life there is a kind of chain of levels of ‘existence’. It would go something like this:

Non-matter, Subatomic matter (photon etc.), atomic matter, molecules, compounds in equilibrium, Micelle (non-living cell membrane), Virus, prokaryotes (e.g. bacteria), eukaryotes, multicellular organisms, and so on through the chain of evolution to humans, but then in my view it carries on. To creations greater than man. Music, architecture, art, science, medicine, history, literature, society, philosophy and so on. These things are so much greater than any single human’s contribution. They represent the pinnacles of existence’s achievements.

And these disciplines need to be preserved so contributions can continue as long as is possible. If we cause the earth to cease its life support for us before it’s natural time then we hasten the demise of these creations.

So in anything which adds to the creation and maintenance (including necessary cycles of birth and death) of the universe and in particular our world and our practices, I see God. In pain and destruction I feel like I see the limit of Gods power, in the limits of life’s capabilities to withstand damage, or when the pain and destruction is human caused, I see people acting in direct contradiction with the ‘laws of God.‘

Essentially we have, by will or chance, been given the responsibility to be the wardens of this, as far as we are aware, planet holding the pinnacles of creation. We should be better custodians, but also continue to stretch the limits of what is possible, and so add further to the great achievements of the force that holds us all together.

I also believe that every action in the universe is forever hardwired into the rope of all-time. Though our senses only allow us to experience a certain amount of the rope close to us you are interwtwined with its past and will be one of the threads the future hangs from. Therefore our bodies are mortal, our actions immortal.


[edit on 1-3-2007 by Giordano Bruno]