Are the 9-11 I-beams cut in sharp angles?

Also, Connected, where did this picture come from? What site? It's not on the site you linked above (unless I'm looking in the wrong place).

yes please explain, if the ladder wasnt being used by rescue/clean up crews HOW it got on TOP of the debris, where it appears a wall once stood?

is it a magic ladder with a sense of self preservation that just jumped up in the air as the wall fell?

or, was it used by someone who came along later?

im not saying it was used to reach that beam, im just saying you cant rule it out either. ive read this thread and ive yet to see you provide any real proof as to when these photos were taken.

i want to see a chain of custody. prove they are real and untampered with just like you would have to if this was court.

the simple answer to that is you cant. you cant prove they are rael anymore than i can prove they are faked. you cant prove they were taken 8:00am 9-12-01 anymore than i can prove they were taken 10-3-01.

Well, this didn't take long to debunk. Here's a site where one of the firefighters talks about cutting steel beams with a cutting torch between Building 6 and the Verizon building on September 12:

www.fullerroadfire.com...

Here's the quote:

Our first assignment for the morning was to begin to cut some of the steel beams that fell on Vesey Street, between Building 6 and the Verizon building. We utilized an exothermic torch and numerous oxyacetylene torches. It would take several minutes to make each cut in the enormous beams.

You're wrong Connected.

Originally posted by whiterabbit


Those beams aren't "partially cut." They're cut all the way across from one side to the other and very-obviously by a cutting torch.

Those aren't beams cut for explosives. Those are beams that have been completely cut through by a torch.

Not to mention, as Damo pointed out, there's a ladder in the picture laying ON TOP of the debris.

Wow you guys really reach don't you. You somehow think its cut all the way around with a torch, yet you dont have pictures of it all the way around. Then you think some old wooden ladder is a sign of rescue efforts or cleanup. Let alone there is absolutly no reason to clean this section or rescue anyone. THATS HILARIOUS.

You know I hear from you believers that "the easyest explination is usualy the right one".

Well, don't you think the photographer might need a ladder to take this next picture??



A picture that shows that part of the beam was most probably cut with a LINER SHAPED CHARGE. (LSC).

It appears to me that they used a torch to cut one part, and LSC to cut the rest syncronously with other beams prepared the same way.

Well, there is more pictures that I have. I got them from www.mediumrecords.com, the guy is a photographer.

www.mediumrecords.com...

Originally posted by whiterabbit
Well, this didn't take long to debunk. Here's a site where one of the firefighters talks about cutting steel beams with a cutting torch between Building 6 and the Verizon building on September 12:

BUILDING 6 AND THE VERIZON BUILDING.

NOT BUILDING 7 AND THE VERIZON BUILDING.

WTC 6 still had survivors in them..

Originally posted by Connected

A picture that shows that part of the beam was most probably cut with a LINER SHAPED CHARGE. (LSC).

Um, that's a torch cut, too, dude. Plain as day to anyone who's ever seen very many of them.

Plus, I just posted above where they were cutting beams at the Verizon building on September 12.

You're wrong on this one.

Originally posted by Connected
BUILDING 6 AND THE VERIZON BUILDING.

NOT BUILDING 7 AND THE VERIZON BUILDING.

WTC 6 still had survivors in them..

I realize that. But you claimed earlier that nobody was cutting steel beams before the cleanup. I have just proven you wrong on that. I just posted a link showing they were cutting steel beams the day after the attack at that building.

And yet, you find it hard to believe that they were cutting beams on another side of the building? Come on now.

It's debunked, dude. Find another claim.

Originally posted by whiterabbit

Um, that's a torch cut, too, dude. Plain as day to anyone who's ever seen very many of them.

Plus, I just posted above where they were cutting beams at the Verizon building on September 12.

You're wrong on this one.

No buddy you are wrong.. No where does it say it was cutting between Building 7 and Verizon building on West Street. All rescue efforts were focused on WTC 1 2 3 4 5 6. Building 7 had no people in it, so they were not even touching it.

FIREFIGHTERS DID NOT CLEAN UP WTC 7, CDI DID.


Plus what is the signifcance of cutting a 1 to 2 foot beam? Out of harms way? There isn't.




Leave it to the believers to jump to conclusions.

Also, please show me the difference between a torch cut and a LSC cut. Please.. GIVE ME EVIDENCE NOT OPINION!!!

Originally posted by whiterabbit
But you claimed earlier that nobody was cutting steel beams before the cleanup.

No I didn't, prove it.


ALSO YOU DIDN'T DEBUNK CRAP! The reason you (enter harsh word here)'s believe in the offical report is because you settle with absolutly no proof or evidence. You are calling this debunked because some firefighter was cutting beams on the other frikken side of the building???

Geezzz wake up!!! No firefighter or clean up crew cut this beam that I am presneting you... NONE. There is no reason for them to..

[edit on 19-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by Connected
No buddy you are wrong.. No where does it say it was cutting between Building 7 and Verizon building on West Street. All rescue efforts were focused on WTC 1 2 3 4 5 6. Building 7 had no people in it, so they were not even touching it.

I have no idea why they cut those beams. But those are torch cuts, dude. They really are. I know you're going to go into one of your all-caps rages now, but those REALLY ARE torch cuts.

As for why they cut those beams... I know that utility workers had to go into the Verizon building the day of the attack to turn off circuit breakers, because they were worried about electrocution. Steel beams had pierced massive copper cables. Maybe something to do with that?

Leave it to the believers to jump to conclusions.

Also, please show me the difference between a torch cut and a LSC cut. Please.. GIVE ME EVIDENCE NOT OPINION!!!

I just gave you actual hard evidence. They were cutting steel beams next to the Verizon building the day after the attack.

Yet you find it impossible to believe THOSE steel beams were cut on that side of the building at a later date when that picture was taken?

That's not even logical, man.

They were cutting beams nearby as early as September 12th. Those beams look EXACTLY like they were torch cut.

Yet, despite all that, you're still saying it had to be something else? That's not even logical.

Originally posted by Connected
No I didn't, prove it.

I'm sorry. My mistake.

You strongly implied that there shouldn't have been cut beams before cleanup. You did this again and again.

I just showed that you were mistaken. They were cutting beams at least as early as September 12th.

Originally posted by Connected

well first off...where do u get 2 feet? if u use the bricks on the wall to the right as a guide you can clearly see its well over two feet as each of those bricks is at least 3-4" (unless im just way off on that, but 3-4" seems right to me) and theres over 20 bricks difference between the bottom of the busted wall and the top of the cut beam. making it between 5-9 feet. not two. and who knows how hight the beams extended. or if they were holding up more debris which could have posed a danger. NONE OF US KNOWS THAT!

oh, and the reason you use an LSC vs C4 or TnT is so you dont have to cut. its a time factor. lsc takes less time to put in place than precutting then placing and the net effect is the same so why bother precutting?

Originally posted by Damocles
NONE OF US KNOWS THAT!

oh, and the reason you use an LSC vs C4 or TnT is so you dont have to cut. its a time factor. lsc takes less time to put in place than precutting then placing and the net effect is the same so why bother precutting?

I know, because I debated this already before with other people. Actually the photographer him self even helped with the debate. This beam was the way it was in the picture since the collapse. Nobody except the Verizon workers were in that room.

Damocles, remember when I said they used LSC's, and wired them to a phone line, to call a private number, for detonation? Don't you think its quiet odd that the Verizon building was just right next to it. It also wasn't untill WTC 7 collapsed that the phone lines and internet lines went down? One of the worlds largest switching stations right next to the building I told you was wired up by phone. Crazy, no?

B.T.W. your brick measurements are off. The Verizon building was built in 1923-27. Those are not your modern bricks. Those are like 1 inch thick. My 2 foot answer was an estimated guess, from my years of experiance with measuring objects.

I wish this link went into more detial...
www.cement.org...

Also, the width of the beams have measurments.. figure it out.

[edit on 19-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by Connected
I know, because I debated this already before with other people. Actually the photographer him self even helped with the debate. This beam was the way it was in the picture since the collapse.

Oh please, there's no way that photographer was able to watch that building from the time the WTC came down until he took that picture. They could've come in and cut those beams any time in between. It would've taken 10-15 minutes.

Connected... Oy, dude.

1. If the cuts on those beams were from having explosives planted on them, the beams would be bent and shattered. They aren't.
2. If the cuts on those beams were from having thermite planted on them, the beams would be a melted mess with slag all over them. They aren't.
3. The beams are cut all the way across by a torch. It is EXTREMELY obvious. That's a torch cut if I ever saw one.
4. They were cutting steel beams at the Verizon building as early as September 12th.
5. The fact that you can't personally think of a good reason for why they would've cut those beams doesn't prove they didn't have a reason for cutting them.

It's debunked, dude. Let it go.

Originally posted by whiterabbit

Oh please, there's no way that photographer was able to watch that building from the time the WTC came down until he took that picture. .

You are telling me this out of pure opinion?!?!!? You say "there's no way, blah blah blah" based on what?!?!? Show me evidence...

1" huh? well, if that is the case, and i cant prove otherwise ill just have to accept your opinoin then. but for the record, most of the buildings and churches where i come from were built back around the same time period and none of them had 1" bricks in them. not saying this building didndt just that ive never seen them before.

do i find it odd that theres a switching station near office bildings? not in the least...how many phones u think were in the wtc's?

private number, sure, but how many wrong numbers you think there are in NYC in a given hour? lemme guess...block all numbers but the cell phone of the guy making the call?

but past all taht, ill even admit that hooking the detonator to the phone lines is a good way to do it on some levels. NOT my own first choice but thats me.

you still have to remember and admit that there would have had to be a LOT of demo charges and in the words of marvin the martian "wheres the kaboom? there was supposed to be an earth shattering kaboom!"

and these 'little explosions heard all day' doesnt do it. in the words of half of the CD theorists in here, you dont get symetric fall from asymetric damage. yer not going to blow supports slowly all day and still have the building fall all at once withotu one last fairly large shot.

find me a firefighter/cop/emt hell even just some random day labor working hired to clean up over the next few months and have them show me part of a blasting cap they found at GZ.

there are none

why?

cuz theres no evidence whatsoever that there were in fact bombs in those buildings.

Originally posted by Connected
You are telling me this out of pure opinion?!?!!? You say "there's no way, blah blah blah" based on what?!?!? Show me evidence...

So, you're ACTUALLY going to try and float the argument that the photographer was standing right there from the time the WTC came down until he took that picture DAYS LATER?

You're ACTUALLY going to put that out there as a legitimate argument?

Well now I've heard everything.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
1. If the cuts on those beams were from having explosives planted on them, the beams would be bent and shattered. They aren't.

Show me an example of a bent and shattered beam from explosives. Not any explosives, an LINER SHAPED CHARGE. Please.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
2. If the cuts on those beams were from having thermite planted on them, the beams would be a melted mess with slag all over them. They aren't.

I never said anything about thermite on this beam.. drop it.. stop using your fog tactics.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
3. The beams are cut all the way across by a torch. It is EXTREMELY obvious. That's a torch cut if I ever saw one.

All the way across?? Are you sure about that? Proove it. I KNOW they are cut, im not debating that. But were they cut to prep the building for demolition before the collapse? Prove to me they weren't. I have more proof than you do. Heck I will show you pictures of the debree being there since 9/11. Should I show you?? You aren't the first person I have debated this with, and won.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
4. They were cutting steel beams at the Verizon building as early as September 12th.

No.. they were not at the Verizon building. There were on Vesey Street, cutting beams that fell on the street, from WTC 1 and 2. The only way to describe his position on Vesey Street was to say between Building 6 and the Verizon building.. Nowhere does it say he was anywhere near or on West Street, between Building 7 and Verizon building..

Our first assignment for the morning was to begin to cut some of the steel beams that fell on Vesey Street, between Building 6 and the Verizon building.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
5. The fact that you can't personally think of a good reason for why they would've cut those beams doesn't prove they didn't have a reason for cutting them.

The fact that you are debating with nothing more than opinion, doesn't prove JACK SHIAT.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
It's debunked, dude. Let it go.

Get over yourself dude, you have nothing, nothing but opinion.

Originally posted by Damocles
most of the buildings and churches where i come from were built back around the same time period and none of them had 1" bricks in them. not saying this building didndt just that ive never seen them before.

I've never seen a 1" brick--ever. I doubt you could even find a building made with them.