Are the 9-11 I-beams cut in sharp angles?

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by whiterabbit
You can see some other kind of metal wrapped around that beam, and where he's cut a square out of it. Whatever that is caused the smoke.

That's the point. You can't say definatively that he is using the torch to cut the steel, because he isn't cutting the steel.

But you can see where he cut the steel inside the square of whatever other metal he cut out.

He's cutting the steel, dude. He's just had to cut the other metal off of it first. With that other metal in the way, the flame from the cutting torch wouldn't reach the steel enough to cut it.

Not if he doesn't want that structure to collapse on his head.

So, that would totally be the oposite of what you concluded at the end of this post? You said "It's a guy partially cutting some steel beams with a cutting torch, probably so they can pull it down with machinery afterwards." If they are going to pull it down afterwards, it would have been braced and certainly wouldn't be a hazard of falling on his head.

I mean he's not cutting them all the way from one end to the other (see the partial cut in the steel) because the thing might fall down on him.

And there's no reason to think they would've braced every column while they were working on them. There was steel to be cut all over the place. If they braced every one of them, they'd never get that place cleaned up.

Besides which, even if they did brace it for when they pull it down, there's no reason to think they would brace it until they were ready. I mean, as long as that guy doesn't make a complete cut through the steel, it's going to keep standing until someone throws a chain around it and yanks it down.

Nothing very interesting? If your scenario isn't true, there is only one other. That it wasn't done by the welder.

Dude. How in the world can you think that guy wasn't the one who did it? He's standing there cutting the other side of the beam with a cutting torch.

And you think it's reasonable to believe that he didn't cut the other side?

There's also several pictures in that gallery Cameron posted that show people using torches on the columns.

Lets also look at the obvious. Thermite reacts all over the place and would not work like that. UNLESS there are certain collared devices that somehow harness / contain the thermite. In my research so far i have found one..that is very small and probably(imo) will not work.

Think though... you would install hundereds if not thousands of these collared devices with literally tons of thermite ...undetected.... THEN hope that the collision of an airplane and the heat from the fire does not have ANY effect on the charges that were planted within these collars.

It just doesnt add up.

Originally posted by CameronFox
Lets also look at the obvious. Thermite reacts all over the place and would not work like that. UNLESS there are certain collared devices that somehow harness / contain the thermite. In my research so far i have found one..that is very small and probably(imo) will not work.

Think though... you would install hundereds if not thousands of these collared devices with literally tons of thermite ...undetected.... THEN hope that the collision of an airplane and the heat from the fire does not have ANY effect on the charges that were planted within these collars.

It just doesnt add up.

I'm just sort of flabbergasted that we have to defend THAT picture.

I mean, the guy's right there. He's standing there cutting the far side of the beam with a torch.

And yet, we still have to somehow prove that the guy actually made the cut on the other side?

Originally posted by whiterabbit

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo
I highly doubt a small portable torch could cut those massive beams.

But I've been wrong before.

Well, yeah, you're wrong on that one. The size of the bottles has absolutely nothing to do with the torch's cutting power. It's the same whether you use the helium tank-sized bottles or the little ones. The little ones just run out quicker. It's the same hoses, the same adapter, the same flame. You could easily cut those steel beams with one.

Also, what would the benefit / rush be to cut the beams ? There's so much other stuff to do - like look for the dead.

Hard to drag out piles of debris with those columns sticking out of them. Added weight, they'd snag on stuff. Lots and lots of reasons to take them out.

That doesn't make any sense - only the top 1/2 is cut - the bottom 1/2 is still blocking all the debris they supposedly cut the beams to help remove.

If they were cut by someone (for the clean up) it raises many other questions.



^^^^^
Shows a beam which clearly has not been cut by a torch - the outer metal "flap" is untouched while the beam right behind it has a deep cut.



^^^^^
The beams seem MUCH taller than the firemen - impossible to reach without equipment.



HOWEVER - with out video footage it's impossible to KNOW so it's probably best neither of us pretend.

Also ... how come some of these "cuts" are made at strange angles while many others are made flat... ?

[edit on 16-3-2007 by NoobieDoobieDo]

WHAT??? There are photographs of men with torches cutting the beams!!!! What else you guys want??? Let it go! The beams were cut to assist in the clean up efforts. It's not a hard thing to accept!!!

And please...anyone tell me what the man is doing with the torch on the lift!
Griff...come on dude..your A LOT smarter than to think he is finishing the job the "DUD Thermite" failed to do. IF you DO believe this...then think about it... you have to say the iron workers are "in on it".

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo

Originally posted by whiterabbit
Hard to drag out piles of debris with those columns sticking out of them. Added weight, they'd snag on stuff. Lots and lots of reasons to take them out.

That doesn't make any sense - only the top 1/2 is cut - the bottom 1/2 is still blocking all the debris they supposedly cut the beams to help remove.

And it could topple over, snag on whatever, etc.

There's also the issue of weight. Those beams add a LOT of weight to a pile of debris. You get one of two of those in there, and some trackhoes wouldn't even be able to move them.

If they were cut by someone (for the clean up) it raises many other questions.

If they were cut?

Dude, you can see the guy cutting them. He's right there.

Clearly, they cut the columns for cleanup. It's not like they could just drag all that stuff out of there with a chain or a bulldozer.

Shows a beam which clearly has not been cut by a torch - the outer metal "flap" is untouched while the beam right behind it has a deep cut.

I don't understand what you're saying.

That's a torch cut. On my mother's life, THAT is torch cut. The outer metal has had a square cut out of it with a torch, then someone made a gash on the inner column.

The beams seem MUCH taller than the firemen - impossible to reach without equipment.

No... You wouldn't need equipment. You'd need a ladder. Then you could cut it off with a cutting torch easily.

Although I'm sure they just cut it partially and yanked it over with a chain or cable or something.

HOWEVER - with out video footage it's impossible to KNOW so it's probably best neither of us pretend.

You can know to a reasonable certainty. Those are cutting torch cuts. And you've got pictures of guys using cutting torches to cut the beams.

Also ... how come some of these "cuts" are made at strange angles while many others are made flat...

I can speculate lots of reasons, but I don't know for sure. There's certainly nothing sinister or suspicious about it, though. It just depends on how they were removing the column.

Originally posted by whiterabbit

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo

Originally posted by whiterabbit
Hard to drag out piles of debris with those columns sticking out of them. Added weight, they'd snag on stuff. Lots and lots of reasons to take them out.

That doesn't make any sense - only the top 1/2 is cut - the bottom 1/2 is still blocking all the debris they supposedly cut the beams to help remove.

And it could topple over, snag on whatever, etc.

There's also the issue of weight. Those beams add a LOT of weight to a pile of debris. You get one of two of those in there, and some trackhoes wouldn't even be able to move them.

If they were cut by someone (for the clean up) it raises many other questions.

If they were cut?

Dude, you can see the guy cutting them. He's right there.

Clearly, they cut the columns for cleanup. It's not like they could just drag all that stuff out of there with a chain or a bulldozer.

Shows a beam which clearly has not been cut by a torch - the outer metal "flap" is untouched while the beam right behind it has a deep cut.

I don't understand what you're saying.

That's a torch cut. On my mother's life, THAT is torch cut. The outer metal has had a square cut out of it with a torch, then someone made a gash on the inner column.

The beams seem MUCH taller than the firemen - impossible to reach without equipment.

No... You wouldn't need equipment. You'd need a ladder. Then you could cut it off with a cutting torch easily.

Although I'm sure they just cut it partially and yanked it over with a chain or cable or something.

HOWEVER - with out video footage it's impossible to KNOW so it's probably best neither of us pretend.

You can know to a reasonable certainty. Those are cutting torch cuts. And you've got pictures of guys using cutting torches to cut the beams.

Also ... how come some of these "cuts" are made at strange angles while many others are made flat...

I can speculate lots of reasons, but I don't know for sure. There's certainly nothing sinister or suspicious about it, though. It just depends on how they were removing the column.

First off - no picture I posted had a guy with a torch.

And just because there were torches being used doesn't mean all cuts were made by torches. To assume so is an error in logic.

It's not safe to assume all effects have a common cause.

Thanks for your feedback.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
Hard to drag out piles of debris with those columns sticking out of them. Added weight, they'd snag on stuff. Lots and lots of reasons to take them out.

I agree on this. It would make sense. More about snagging on stuff. I believe it would be easier to swing a crane with less columns sticking out of the ground.

Originally posted by NoobieDoobieDo
First off - no picture I posted had a guy with a torch.

Yes, it did.

Look on page 4. The first picture you posted is a close-up of the first picture Cameron posted--the one with the guy using a blowtorch.

And just because there were torches being used doesn't mean all cuts were made by torches. To assume so is an error in logic.

No it's not. In fact, it's just about the most logical thing in the world.

You have pictures of guys using cutting torches. You have a cut that looks EXACTLY like the kind made by a cutting torch--that couldn't be made exactly like that by almost anything else.

It's a cutting torch cut.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by whiterabbit]

My friend the burden of proof is yours... there are pictures of men with cutting torches... CUTTING THE BEAMS. You show me proof that "other beams" were NOT cut by torches.

Look at this picture... we dont see the man cutting all the trees here..I see him cutting only one othe them...should i not assume that the rest of those trees could have possibly fallen by other means...besides that of a chainsaw?

Originally posted by whiterabbit

Originally posted by PHARAOH1133
Thermite Straps (Which were used to cut the I-Beams) (Not Explosive) (Super Thermite is explosive) Explosives were used in conjuction with Thermite not just explosive.

I still say it couldn't have been thermite. It would've left so much obvious evidence they wouldn't have had a prayer of covering it up. Even super-thermite.

I don't believe it was explosives for a second, but if it was a controlled demolition, it was explosives or nothing.

All the Iron I-beams to China, which is illegal.

Plus HUN, they do use Thermite and Explosives in controlled Demolitions, not just expolsives. in the tall buildings I'm refuring.

Originally posted by CameronFox
That one picture has been around and used as proof of thermite. This was done to assist in the clean up!! OA was used in the cutting of remainding beams. Geesh!

Source: hereisnewyork.org...

Watched all the videos on this link, if so how can you say that?
Can you list any proof for what you are saying?
When looking at the molten Iron running out of the top floors of the twin towers before they fell are you saying that yes in fact they are up there with blow torches cutting the I-Beams I can see the men up there doing it, come on, lets see your evidence.

Here's the link, he states my beliefs on this whole thing.

Video Link : video.google.com...

Here's another one : video.google.com...

and another : video.google.com...

Prof. Jones Video : video.google.com...

Until I see objective criticism by experts not just pictures and your opinions, (not unless you have credentials which you are not informing me of?), I will have to rely on the experts in these videos, Not unless you have some video by someone with credentials you would like to post, so that I may give my unbias opinion to, until then I must therfore excet the reports of these experts in these expert videos.

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I don't usually agree with the skeptics but I think if there are people there with torches it isn't outside the realm of logic to assume that they might be torching the steel beams around the site.

Originally posted by talisman
I don't usually agree with the skeptics but I think if there are people there with torches it isn't outside the realm of logic to assume that they might be torching the steel beams around the site.

watched all the videos on this thread?

I don't see how you can state this?

They might of cut some I-Beams weeks after they collapsed but how could they until they put out the thermite fires.
watch this short video and explain this to me.

Video link : www.youtube.com...

here another short video.
Video Link : www.youtube.com...

Here a video with my favorite song attached
Video Link : www.youtube.com...

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Originally posted by PHARAOH1133
Here's the link, he states my beliefs on this whole thing.

Until I see objective criticism by experts not just pictures and your opinions, (not unless you have credentials which you are not informing me of?), I will have to rely on the experts in these videos, Not unless you have some video by someone with credentials you would like to post, so that I may give my unbias opinion to, until then I must therfore excet the reports of these experts in these expert videos.

Please tell me what Kevin Ryan is an expert on! Do you know?? It's not steel. HE was fired from UL for LYING!! I suggest you do some research on the people you take information from.

Read into Mr. Jones who was fired/ resigned from BYU. There is plenty of infomation about him on the internet.

Here is a letter from one of his peers:
April 09, 2006
Dear Editor,

After reading in the Daily Herald the presentations made by Professor Steven E. Jones (BYU Physics) to students at UVSC and BYU, I feel obligated to reply to his "Conspiracy Theory" relating to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center (9/11/01).

I have studied the summary of the report by FEMA, The American Society of Civil Engineers and several other professional engineering organizations. These experts have given in detail the effects on the Towers by the impact of the commercial aircraft. I have also read Professor Jones' (referred to) 42 page unpublished report. In my understanding of structural design and the properties of structural steel I find Professor Jones' thesis that planted explosives (rather than fire from the planes) caused the collapse of the Towers, very unreliable.

The structural design of the towers was unique in that the supporting steel structure consisted of closely spaced columns in the walls of all four sides. The resulting structure was similar to a tube. When the aircraft impacted the towers at speeds of about 500 plus mph, many steel columns were immediately severed and others rendered weak by the following fires. The fires critically damaged the floors systems. Structural steel will begin to lose strength when heated to temperatures above 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. Steel bridge girders are bent to conform to the curved roadway by spot heating flanges between 800 and 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. It is easy to comprehend the loss of carrying capacity of all the structural steel due to the raging fires fed by the jet's fuel as well as aircraft and building contents.

Before one (especially students) supports such a conspiracy theory, they should investigate all details of the theory. To me a practicing structural engineer of 57 continuous years (1941-1998), Professor Jones' presentations are very disturbing.

D. Allan Firmage

Professor Emeritus, Civil Engineering, BYU

www.netxnews.net...


I will be more than happy to show you how and why Kevin Ryan was fired ... if your interested


EDIT.... for a sentance I had to rearrange...I had no idea what I was saying!!!lmfao

[edit on 16-3-2007 by CameronFox]

Watch and learn then respond.

Video Link : www.youtube.com...

Do you actually read what others post, or is your research just taking all You Tube Videos as Gospel??

Originally posted by CameronFox

Originally posted by PHARAOH1133
Here's the link, he states my beliefs on this whole thing.

Until I see objective criticism by experts not just pictures and your opinions, (not unless you have credentials which you are not informing me of?), I will have to rely on the experts in these videos, Not unless you have some video by someone with credentials you would like to post, so that I may give my unbias opinion to, until then I must therfore excet the reports of these experts in these expert videos.

Please tell me what Kevin Ryan is an expert on! Do you know?? It's not steel. HE was fired from UL for LYING!! I suggest you do some research on the people you take information from.

Here's the info you wanted.
Link : www.letsroll911.org...

Originally posted by CameronFox

Originally posted by PHARAOH1133
Here's the link, he states my beliefs on this whole thing.

Until I see objective criticism by experts not just pictures and your opinions, (not unless you have credentials which you are not informing me of?), I will have to rely on the experts in these videos, Not unless you have some video by someone with credentials you would like to post, so that I may give my unbias opinion to, until then I must therfore excet the reports of these experts in these expert videos.

Read into Mr. Jones who was fired/ resigned from BYU. There is plenty of infomation about him on the internet.

Here is a letter from one of his peers:
April 09, 2006
Dear Editor,

After reading in the Daily Herald the presentations made by Professor Steven E. Jones (BYU Physics) to students at UVSC and BYU, I feel obligated to reply to his "Conspiracy Theory" relating to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center (9/11/01).


PHARAOH1133'S REBUTTAL
It's not a "Conspiracy Theroy' any more it's Just plain ole FACT now.
All this rubbish about Prof. Jones is just a bunch of "GARBAGE" IMO
To discredit simple facts a child could understand, twisting the truth and trying to go off topic to try and create "HEARSAY" technical jargin is just that a buNch of sunshine your trying to blow up peoples , well forget it, you go ahead and believe what you want and of coarse look at whom I'm talking to, It Vice President Cheney I can see him in his picture along with all of his posts, Oh now I see, I'm so stupid, I forgot who I was talking with here. you can run but you can not hide Cheney.

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