Are the 9-11 I-beams cut in sharp angles?

Originally posted by Connected
Do you not know how cleanly a shaped charge can cut steel? Why are you imagining some stupid cartoon render of a blown up cannon?

Let me show you what a shaped charge made from a WINE BOTTLE can do to a steel plate.

Those shaped charge pictures don't look ANYTHING like the ends of the columns that you're continually passing around the forum as proof of thermite or explosives.

The outside edges are broken and serrated from the shape charges, and there's no discoloration like with the cutting torch.

With the cutting torch pictures, you can clearly see the discoloration, the slag and melted places, and even the blowing grooves in some of the pictures.

Those pictures you posted are clearly cutting torch pictures. It's so utterly obvious, that I still can't believe we're arguing about it.

Edit to add:

Also, upon looking, that's like what? 1/4" plate steel? MAYBE 1/2".

I think the damage to one of the support columns wouldn't be quite so neat.

[edit on 19-3-2007 by whiterabbit]

Maybe someone just found it laying around ; like the person who took the pictures? to climb upon top of the debris pile? It might of been used to climb into that part of the building where that room leads too? Who know, however it does look like the ladder is maybe a 10 foot ladder or a 12 foot ladder, maybe even bigger.

Originally posted by whiterabbit

Those shaped charge pictures don't look ANYTHING like the ends of the columns that you're continually passing around the forum as proof of thermite or explosives.

First off, I never claimed they looked like the ends of the column I am debating. I was giving you an idea of how clean of a cut a shaped charge can make and the discolorization is the same as a torch.

Second, DROP THE FRIKKEN THERMITE ALREADY! I AM NOT DEBATING THERMITE!!!! STHU!! THAT IS THE 10TH TIME I TOLD YOU ON THIS THREAD!! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?! IS THIS ALLOWED ON THE FORUM????

Originally posted by whiterabbit
The outside edges are broken and serrated from the shape charges, and there's no discoloration like with the cutting torch.

You clearly have another agenda. You are making up lies.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
Those pictures you posted are clearly cutting torch pictures. It's so utterly obvious, that I still can't believe we're arguing about it.

Dude, we aren't argueing that there is torch cut. I have said 1000 times that it IS a torch cut. We are arguing about it being a torch cut on the entire beam.. you claim it is, without proof.

DO YOU FORGET THAT EASY??

We are also debating WHEN it was cut....

DID YOU FORGET THAT TO?

God help you.

[edit on 19-3-2007 by Connected]

connected,

those pics of the shape charges were great, nice find. however. did you happen to notice the part of the blast (as that pic was obviously cropped together) where the metal was puckered out away from the plate?

LSC's will make a VERY nice entry cut, but the other side of the cut doesnt look so pretty. there will be an obvious blast exit.

if you really believe any of the beams were cut with an lsc, find a pic of the metal puckered like that and youve got youre proof.

all youve shown so far are pics of metal cut by torches.

sorry.

Originally posted by Damocles

LSC's will make a VERY nice entry cut, but the other side of the cut doesnt look so pretty. there will be an obvious blast exit.

G, I KNOW! Don't you know we can't clearlly see one side of the beam we are debating? I sure hope so, or else I'm debating with a frikken block wall.

Originally posted by Damocles
if you really believe any of the beams were cut with an lsc.....

all youve shown so far are pics of metal cut by torches.

Ok for the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 time.......

I BELIEVE IT WAS CUT WITH A TORCH AND AN LSC!

Wow this is going nowhere... admins? do you see this nonsense?

Controlled Demolition Experts, partialy cut beams with torches, and then wire it with explosives to finish the job. this alows them to use less explosives, and have less of a sound effect.

Do you understand that yet?

[edit on 19-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by Connected
First off, I never claimed they looked like the ends of the column I am debating. I was giving you an idea of how clean of a cut a shaped charge can make and the discolorization is the same as a torch.

It's not a clean cut! Look at the end where the blast came out. It's a serrated mess.

Now what do you think that would do to steel as thick as in the support columns?

Second, DROP THE FRIKKEN THERMITE ALREADY! I AM NOT DEBATING THERMITE!!!! STHU!! THAT IS THE 10TH TIME I TOLD YOU ON THIS THREAD!! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?! IS THIS ALLOWED ON THE FORUM????

I will not. You've posted these same cutting-torch column pictures in other threads claiming they were thermite. Now you're posting them in this thread claiming they're proof of explosives.

Either renounce your thermite theory or deal with it.

You clearly have another agenda. You are making up lies.

That's right. I work for the nonexistent NWO!

Originally posted by whiterabbit
you claim it is, without proof.

I'm claiming it's cut torch all the way around based on circumstancial evidence--lots of it.

You're claiming it's partially explosive-cut based on nothing but your gut feeling.

I think Narnia is behind that column. Just TRY and prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Connected

G, I KNOW! Don't you know we can't clearlly see one side of the beam we are debating? I sure hope so, or else I'm debating with a frikken block wall.

specualtion at best. so, if yer so sure they are out there, find a photo of a beam with a blast exit pattern. simple.

Wow this is going nowhere... admins? do you see this nonsense?

yeah, you REALLY want the admins looking at your posts? guess thats yer call.

Originally posted by Connected
Ok for the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 time.......

I BELIEVE IT WAS CUT WITH A TORCH AND AN LSC!

Why then? Why on EARTH would you believe that?

Admitting as you have that neither of us can see the other side of the column why would you believe it had an LSC used on it over the much-more-likely explanation that the thing was just torch-cut and hauled off?

We know they were cutting steel beams in the area. We know there were people working around the Verizon building who didn't report seeing any columns shattered by explosives. We know that at least one side of the beam WAS cut with a cutting torch.

So, why would you believe it was explosives on the other side, based on nothing, when you have all that implying that it was probably just torch-cut all the way around?

Answer: Because you just want to. Nothing's going to persuade you, no amount of logic or reason. You just want to believe that column was blown up, so you're going to.

Why does it seem like there are quite a few photos just of the beams, why did the photographer find it interesting to take pictures focusing on the beams? Well in my view I believe they or whoever took the photos found them to be interesting ? Why becuase they looked like they were cut somehow. If they were not all cut the buildings would of toppled over, not come down straight like a controlled demo, and if it were terrorist they would not of cared if they buildings fell over, they would of want maxium damage, so they were'nt trying to do us a favor by letting them fall down in one nice pile.
Another aspect would be why would the I-beams burn red hot for six weeks? Just burning molten hot the end of a I-beam please explain this?

Do you guys seriously not proof read what you are typing?

Do you understand exactly what you are trying to debate, and what you are trying to debate WITH?

Let me clearlify your actions right now:

You are trying to prove, without any evidence, that this beam was NOT cut with:

LSC + TORCH




...and that it was only cut with a torch, because you are to blind to see the rest of the metal's disformation.


[edit on 19-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by PHARAOH1133
Why does it seem like there are quite a few photos just of the beams, why did the photographer find it interesting to take pictures focusing on the beams?

Ive already explained this to them and they completly ignored it. I told them:

"These pictures were taken because they thought the cuts were suspicious. The photographer himself said so."


[edit on 19-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by Connected
You are trying to prove, without any evidence, that this beam was NOT cut with:

LSC + TORCH

But we do have evidence.

We have the front side of the column cut by a cutting torch. And we have workers cutting columns nearby as early as September 12th. That picture was also taken while they were in the midst of removing debris from around the Verizon building, as detailed on the their web site.

That's circumstancial AND physical evidence my friend, extremely strong. It shows that the likelihood is that it was cut and hauled off.

You, however, have no evidence to support your theory. None. You just believe it because you like it. It tickled some funny bone of yours to think it was LSC.

then he should have goten better pictures and ended this debate for us from the get go. but he didnt.

or we havnt seen them.

you are basing your whole case on inconclusive photographic evidence.

you can see this yes?

ill admit, we (rabbit and myself) are also basing it on inconclusive evidence.

i can admit that.

so again, we're back to "wow, pictures of beams. next?"

the bottom line is that thers more evidence to support workers with torches than there is to support black ops with demo blocks. (lsc's, c4 tnt w/e)

Originally posted by Connected
Ive already explained this to them and they completly ignored it. I told them:

"These pictures were taken because they thought the cuts were suspicious. The photographer himself said so."

Prove it. Post the conversation.

And then I want the email of the photographer so I can ask him why he didn't take a picture of the other side of the column so we could see your non-existent LSC damage.

Seriously. I'm not kidding. I'll even post the results of what he tells me.

If he personally tells me there was LSC damage on the other side, I will shut the hell up about this.

Originally posted by whiterabbit

Originally posted by Connected

A picture that shows that part of the beam was most probably cut with a LINER SHAPED CHARGE. (LSC).

Um, that's a torch cut, too, dude. Plain as day to anyone who's ever seen very many of them.

Plus, I just posted above where they were cutting beams at the Verizon building on September 12.

You're wrong on this one.

The other half of of the beams? Did they just go around trimming all the beams that were sticking out, remove the parts which were cut then just turned around and took pictures of the beams that they trimmed? I think not these were taken before any pre-clean up, they were busy putting fires out and didn't just want to rush right in with torches to cause possibly more fires, things are done in steps. First you put out fires, then you try and analyze what needs to be done next like: what equipment needs to be brought in to do the clean up, it would of taken days to get this all orgainized, in the mean time they were just trying to put the fires out which lasted over 6 weeks.

No, see, you guys just did an entire huge circle around a question I asked you... it is imparitive that you answer this question.

Look at the picture:



If the beam was longer, wouldn't it make a bigger hole?

Why only cut this beam?

Why only cut such a small section of the beam?

Also, please give me evidence that someone with a torch was near this area, you haven't yet...

Originally posted by whiterabbit
As for why they cut those beams... I know that utility workers had to go into the Verizon building the day of the attack to turn off circuit breakers, because they were worried about electrocution. Steel beams had pierced massive copper cables. Maybe something to do with that?

There was plenty of room to access the building, no beams needed to be cut to get in, look at how big the hole is, plus they would of turned off the electricy from a larger controll pannel away from the building, not a circuit breaker box inside the building, plus when the building came down it would of cut the lines to the power.

Originally posted by Connected

Originally posted by Damocles
NONE OF US KNOWS THAT!

oh, and the reason you use an LSC vs C4 or TnT is so you dont have to cut. its a time factor. lsc takes less time to put in place than precutting then placing and the net effect is the same so why bother precutting?

I know, because I debated this already before with other people. Actually the photographer him self even helped with the debate. This beam was the way it was in the picture since the collapse. Nobody except the Verizon workers were in that room.

Damocles, remember when I said they used LSC's, and wired them to a phone line, to call a private number, for detonation? Don't you think its quiet odd that the Verizon building was just right next to it. It also wasn't untill WTC 7 collapsed that the phone lines and internet lines went down? One of the worlds largest switching stations right next to the building I told you was wired up by phone. Crazy, no?

B.T.W. your brick measurements are off. The Verizon building was built in 1923-27. Those are not your modern bricks. Those are like 1 inch thick. My 2 foot answer was an estimated guess, from my years of experiance with measuring objects.

I wish this link went into more detial...
www.cement.org...

Also, the width of the beams have measurments.. figure it out.

[edit on 19-3-2007 by Connected]

Those are four foot windows, plus you can get an estimate from the beam in front of it, plus the ladder itself is a good rule, it's over 8' long.

Originally posted by Connected
No, see, you guys just did an entire huge circle around a question I asked you... it is imparitive that you answer this question.

Look at the picture:

If the beam was longer, wouldn't it make a bigger hole?

Why only cut this beam?

Why only cut such a small section of the beam?

Also, please give me evidence that someone with a torch was near this area, you haven't yet...

Above the blue circled beam in this picture, in the window right above it, doesn't that look like another wooden ladder in the window?
Let me know what you think you see.