What is the government's motivation to keeping UFO data secret?

I think there are a few points that have been missed so far:

The 'panic' factor. Kinda lame that MIB's the best quote I've got for this one, but there's a line in that regarding disclosure which states 'a person' is smart, 'people' are dumb panicky animals. Orson Welles has messed up disclosure for all of us with his reading of War of the Worlds. Sure, a lot of people would be able to deal with this information, but you've gotta think in terms of 'the herd' and not 'a lot of people'. Particularly if the motives of the aliens are either hostile, or even unclear. Not only would people panic, but they wouldn't have much faith in the government. After all, if we're up against a race that is vastly technologically superior, then it doesn't matter what the government says, we'll know that they're as helpless as we are.

But I think the biggest contributing factor to the perpetuation of secrecy is the fact that it has been kept a secret so long. Do you really think that the population of the world would look at their governments the same way knowing they have kept something so important a secret for so many years? If aliens had only made contact with our governments in the past few years then things might be different. But if the government is to reveal that they have had dealings with extraterrestrial beings, they're going to have to reveal that they've had dealings for fifty odd years now. Free countries rely on their people to trust their leaders. With the decimation of that trust, the leaders are either overthrown, or the country becomes a police state.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by TheStev]

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
After some careful consideration, allowing for the fact that everyone tries to rationalize their own motivation in the best possible light, I would have to conclude that the "reason" has to do with the preservation of civil order.

As I've posted elsewhere, consider for a moment what would happen if Anti-gravity technology, derived from alien spacecraft, were to suddenly be made available.

Great News, you's say. An end to wars for oil and air pollution!

But just think about how many jobs in our current Civilization are related to the production, transportation and processing of of oil just to be used as fuel!

I'm not talking about jobs just in the US, or any one particular country for that matter; the truth of the matter is, the current Global economy is largely based on Oil and its products. And oil for fuel is one of the primary components of the global oil-based economy.

Take that away, and you risk a GLOBAL economic meltdown!

And a simple fact of life in our civilization is that economic instability usually leads to political instability; and THAT usually leads to war.

So we are faced with the dire possibility: Alien existence proven. Technology transfered (Anti-gravity technology in this case), or at least proven to be possible. Massive economic flux as a result of new paradigm, leading to global economic collapse. Global political structure de-stabilized as a result of major economic collapse.

Global war.

End of civilization.

Cockroaches rise to power.

If You were in a leadership position, would you be willing to risk the end of civilization just so everyone could fly to work like George Jetson?

THAT is some awesome spin. I mean, if you are a disinfo agent, man you are one of the best i've seen so far! Compelling argument to say the least. Extreemely well written and logical Good post!
Just kidding about the disinfo part btw ;p

A couple of what ifs:

What if the entire concept of UFOs was created and cultivated by the Government?

What if it is being constantly tended too by the government even now?

What better way would there be to divert attention away from secret military aircraft still in development? It would be next to impossible to hide the test flights without basing them in an isolated part of Alaska which would create far to many logistical problems. Why not just do it in plain sight where the population is sparse and plant stories about UFOs and Aliens to cloud the issue and discredit those who witnessed the craft? "Project Bluebook" could have been a total farce to encourage belief in these things. Places like the "Little A'Le'Inn" could even be government inventions to encourage the diversion to continue. The entire population of places like Rachel could be in on the whole thing? People like Mr. Lear could be a part of this whole ruse.

These things are not currently my beliefs, but it is possible this could be true.

Originally posted by Redfish
I read that - money and power. But to what end? What needs and desire could a person have? Perhaps it's my personality. I don't understand the drive to be super wealthy. I can't imagine what motivates a Bill Gates to get up every morning and go to work. I would be too busy planning fishing trips with my boys, or working on my car (well, cars if I had his cash). What exists in this world that he couldn't buy if he turned in his 2 weeks notice at Microsoft?

Redfish, I don't think Bill was ever motivated by money - I think he just does what he does and money happened along!

Originally posted by TheStev
With the decimation of that trust, the leaders are either overthrown, or the country becomes a police state.

I don't trust any government even with reference to mundane matters. Governments are made up of people. Rich, power-hungry people. They want the control, they like the control and they need the control.

Disclosing secrets about aliens, exotic technology and 'free-energy' (if it exists) would remove their control. I'm almost convinced that any official announcement of an alien presence would result in near anarchy for planet Earth.

Our planet is a disgrace. We need something like a disclosure event to abruptly force change. I don't think that it is possible to cure a sick planet, until you give it a dose of bad-tasting medicine.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
A couple of what ifs:

What if the entire concept of UFOs was created and cultivated by the Government?

What if it is being constantly tended too by the government even now?

Right, so every government throughout recorded history, all over the world, has conspired to draw cave paintings, etc of UFOs? All this just to test secret military aircraft? I think that it is highly unlikely.

I think that many people forget that there are more countries on Earth other than the USA and that there is more than one government, other than the USA.gov. People in other countries also see UFOs and have been for many years previous to 1947.

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
After some careful consideration, allowing for the fact that everyone tries to rationalize their own motivation in the best possible light, I would have to conclude that the "reason" has to do with the preservation of civil order.

As I've posted elsewhere, consider for a moment what would happen if Anti-gravity technology, derived from alien spacecraft, were to suddenly be made available.

Great News, you's say. An end to wars for oil and air pollution!

But just think about how many jobs in our current Civilization are related to the production, transportation and processing of of oil just to be used as fuel!

I'm not talking about jobs just in the US, or any one particular country for that matter; the truth of the matter is, the current Global economy is largely based on Oil and its products. And oil for fuel is one of the primary components of the global oil-based economy.

Take that away, and you risk a GLOBAL economic meltdown!

And a simple fact of life in our civilization is that economic instability usually leads to political instability; and THAT usually leads to war.

So we are faced with the dire possibility: Alien existence proven. Technology transfered (Anti-gravity technology in this case), or at least proven to be possible. Massive economic flux as a result of new paradigm, leading to global economic collapse. Global political structure de-stabilized as a result of major economic collapse.

Global war.

End of civilization.

Cockroaches rise to power.

If You were in a leadership position, would you be willing to risk the end of civilization just so everyone could fly to work like George Jetson?

Problems with this argument :-

A. We were told that robots and computers would do the same thing (job losses etc) - employment changed, it was an upheavel, we survived.

B. cheaper transport and energy would mean less working hours needed to pay for cheaper goods and services.

C. Governments don't care about risking civilization, thats why we had MAD in the last century - they do care about power and control, though.

I think the real reason they don't disclose is probably because from day one the people with access to the facts have handled the whole 'others' situation badly, are probably commited to a policy, and are probably still handling things badly. The usual reaction to that is to hide the truth, whatever that may be, and when all else fails - lie.

its simple, alien tech scares the crap outta the military, and any gov't that can use it to fight their enemies, will keep it a secret.

if you admit to your people aliens exist, you also admit you can't protect them.

good luck convincing any military guy or politician to be the first in line to do that

And with all the things the different governments of the world disagree about, it seems strange that all of the hundreds of governments would be able to agree to keep such information secret.

The number of semi-official UFO groups in China is huge. It's hardly considered a secret there. Unfortunately, there is no Chinese version of CNN that we can all tune into that would reflect this openness.

As far as the US is concerned, it can be hardly be argued that the secret is intact. You have hundreds of whistleblowers in the Disclosure Project alone.

Indeed, I feel that those who are trying to keep it secret are fighting an impossible battle.

The human race as a species is no where near mature enough to cope with the reality of alien life forms from another planet. We still cant even accept one another other, black's,white's,chinese,indian etc. How do you think your average rascist human would react to a new species all together. There would be absolute chaos. That for me is the most obvious reason the government and the alien's themselves would keep it a secret.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
if you admit to your people aliens exist, you also admit you can't protect them.

Protect us from WHAT?

I have far more concern that some brainwashed, fanatical, dogmatic, religious zealot will try and blow me up in a plane, than aliens attacking me.

If aliens had wanted to cause us harm as a species, they would have done so before we developed gun-powder! We would have been easier to conquer then and the Earth would not have been as polluted if they had wanted to settle here.

Earthlings are far more dangerous than aliens. We're bent on destroying each other due to religious differences, energy, power, money and control. Any observing aliens would bide their time, provided that they know how to scrub out nuclear radiation after the bombs drop. We'll cleanse ourselves from the planet, saving any hostile aliens the need to bother recruiting an army.

We don't need protecting from aliens, we need protecting from ourselves.

So how many people know the secret. That is the other thing I have a hard time with. Government employees are not a tight lipped lot. Wouldn't you think, that over the course of the last 50 or so years, someone would have come out with definitive evidence. I see too many claims made that get holes blown in them.

Redfish: 'knowing the secret' and obtaining definitive evidence are poles apart. It's a big assumption to say that just because many people 'know the secret' it's easy to come out with definitive evidence.

Tezza: I hardly think the ATS forums are a valid cross section of society at large. I don't trust our governments either, but that's why I'm here. I think the majority of people are outwardly cynical about politicians, but inwardly believe that governments only have our best interests in mind, and only keep secret matters of national security - not matters of human importance. I certainly agree though that the world is a disgrace and that some kind of change will need to be forced upon the PTB.

And in terms of protection: sure, practically it's more likely that you will be put in harms way by a fanatical religous zealot than you are by an alien. But generally speaking, the religious zealot will not be able to attack you with any means that you can't defend yourself. Generally speaking, we're all at the same level of technology. If we're talking about a threat from a much more advanced race, then the threat is as much larger as the race is more advanced.

Yes, we need protection from ourselves, but don't be too quick to make the assumption that we don't need protection from others. Some pretty big assumptions need to be made to assume that 'If they wanted to attack us they would have done so by now'. Not least of which: the assumption that they only want our planet. Do you think the ripening peach on a branch says to itself 'If those humans wanted to eat me they would have done it earlier, when I was small and easy to carry'?

Maybe the aliens are not hostile, maybe there are no aliens. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of unknowns in that equation, and a lot of assumptions need to be made to reach the point you have reached.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
if you admit to your people aliens exist, you also admit you can't protect them.

Protect us from WHAT?

you know exactly what.
Invasion.
Take-over.
enslavement.
Being turned into a breeding cow.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Right, so every government throughout recorded history, all over the world, has conspired to draw cave paintings, etc of UFOs? All this just to test secret military aircraft? I think that it is highly unlikely.

As I mentioned in my post what I put forward is not my current beliefs. I did not say there are no UFOs or Aliens because I do not know.

Everyone is assuming the government has intimate knowledge of these things which has never been proved beyond a doubt. What if the government is as in the dark about these things as we are? I think they know and are involved in some way but I can not prove it. It would be foolish for me to close my mind to the possibility based on what information is available. Most of these beliefs are based on the word of a handful of people who don't really have any proof combined with speculation. It is very much like a religion as to fully accept it as true you have to base it on faith not actual proof. A lot of this is based on the testimony of former government employees. In one breath people say they can not trust anything that comes from the government or its employees, then they offer the testimony of a government employee, current or former, as proof it is true. Strange logic to say the least.

Originally posted by The great unknown

A. We were told that robots and computers would do the same thing (job losses etc) - employment changed, it was an upheavel, we survived.

B. cheaper transport and energy would mean less working hours needed to pay for cheaper goods and services.

C. Governments don't care about risking civilization, thats why we had MAD in the last century - they do care about power and control, though.

I think the real reason they don't disclose is probably because from day one the people with access to the facts have handled the whole 'others' situation badly, are probably commited to a policy, and are probably still handling things badly. The usual reaction to that is to hide the truth, whatever that may be, and when all else fails - lie.

A.) Robots and computers changed industries, not fundamental aspects of GLOBAL economic foundations. You must account for the differnces of Scale inherent in these paradigm shifts. And remember, the introduction of both of these technologies reulted in the loss of jobs in the affected industries.

Certainly, as is evident in the US auto industry, the introduction of robotics has left many of these jobs yet to be replaced. Imagine what the elimination oil as a fuel would do, the number of industr-ies, (plural) that would either be diminished (ie.; petro-chemical processing) or eliminated entirely (ie., road-building, airport opertaions)on a GLOBAL scale!


B.) Cheaper transport and energy would mean fewer working hours needed to pay for goods and services; wouldn't it also, therefore mean Fewer Workers Needed to provide those goods and services? Afterall, why Pay some one to do something that doesn't need to be done?

The new anti-grav "trucking company" saves money on road taxes because its anti-grav "trucks" no longer need to use the roads; so why would the gov't still build roads? Except that now thousands of people who used to design and build roads, and the folks who made the materials that made the roads, are now out of jobs.

And since unemployed people buy fewer of the products the trucking company ships, they have less to ship, and so they end up loosing money!


C.) Governments don't care about civilization...Dude, Governments ARE Civilization! You cannot have one without the other! Even down to the nuclear family unit, there exists a decision-making heirarchy intended to establish action/policy. Like it or not, That's a form of Government!

To claim that "governments don't care about risking civilization", and then to claim that [governments] do "care about power and control", is contradictory: a government's "power and control" is derived from the civilization from which it arises. If the civilization is destroyed, obviously, the government, along with its power and control, is destroyed as well.

BTW, the fact that we are here, now, and able to debate this topic is a decent arguement for the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD); no matter that basis of the policy was frighteningly surreal. As insane as it was, MAD seems to have kept mankind from anihilating itself.

Thus far.


As to my actually being a "Dis-info Agent", I must say that I am indeed flattered!

It is said that to truly know thy oppenent, one must be able to think like one's oppenent. Perhaps, on this point, I have succeeded.

The fact is that I truly hope that there is "Life out There" and that "They" have indeed been visiting us. I hope that they continue to do so, and that I may one day get to meet them on peaceful terms.

I must also confess that I think/hope the recent incident at O'Hare International may be the turning point in this "High Strangeness".

I think it has to do with social disentigration. I think that we are being slowly acclimated to the idea of aliens through movies and television. Cartoons. I think sighting will become more prominent in the near future and continue untill it won't matter if the govt. denies it or not. Area 51 was and is still there. So are UFO's

I think its because:

1. There would be a massive religious upheavel, resulting in lots of non-religious or simply spiritual people [much harder to control and suck money from], and lots of hyper-fundamentalism at first; causing violence and fear.

2. There would be a pervasive subconscious change in people; the white man/rich man/politician that many people see as their opresser might still run the world, but he's no longer really in charge, everyone would know there is something greater than 'the man' in existence, and thus even if 'the man' doesn't lose that much power, he is percieved as inferior to something else himself, and that might change his mind a little towards those who have dealt with being percieved as inferior, as well as affect the minds of the common people he rules over. Empowerment of women and opressed races, empowerment of the common man, a shift toward unity and less towards power division and social hierarchy.

3. Loss of power and wealth due to the above reason and demand of new and improved technologies that might not be easy to control, might be less expensive and allow many more people to live in abundance and other people to lose their jobs [although it might create more jobs or less need for money].

4. Change. Most people fear it. Even if things didn't immediately change that much, the way in which more intelligent life conducts itself might be what people aspire to become, whether or not its good for us.

5. Having to admit they lied, worrying by the government that if they have to admit to any piece of information, they might be forced to admit to all of it; this might mean admitting to abductions or allowing abductions, and cattle mutilation.

6. Possibility of violence, upheavel, poverty and strife in the short term immediately following admittance if the proof is strong enough. Distrust of the goverment.

7. Fear that the aliens might want to kill us/eat us/hurt us/ whatever you want to think, or that on the same note they might want to change us for the better, toward less war and more altruism. This is still change however, and people FEAR change if it means doing something difficult, like instead of following a comfortable habit, such as obsessing over celebrity blowouts or bullying someone at work, getting off of your butt and helping someone else without a material reward.

8. Fear of starting an arms race with other countries if the US had to admit to having acquired dangerous alien technology and reported it.

and probably many more.

It comes down to the issue of control. Thats why the secret is kept.

Our own history shows that primitive civilizations get assimilated into more advanced civilizations. Our governments, at least the richest and most powerful who want to retain control, will not allow their control of our planet to wane. So a secret war of sorts is being waged to prevent the inevitable from happening.

They can't keep the secret forever. Its going to come out one way or another. And its going to be very ugly. However when its finally over we will be far better off with the knowledge that is brought to us.

Supposing we are being visited,there are 2 possibilities.

1)They have communicated with..someone
2)They haven't because we're too far behind to understand what they're saying ie: the mothman quote "have you ever tried to make your intentions known to a cockroach?"

If they have communicated,obviously whoever they spoke to has been asked not to relay that information,likely for a very good reason.

If they haven't been able to communicate with us,again,it's up to them when they reveal themselves.

In either case it's up to the aliens as to when they make themselves known.We can jump up and down and demand disclosure all we want..it's just not a decision a human can/will make imo.

I don't think they are here.If they are they certainly haven't crashed/been shot down or whatever.If more than like a dozen ppl knew about it there's no way it would be a secret for long.One of them would grab some evidence and be on Letterman inside a week.