2000 year old stone carving of the 10 commandments in New Mexico?

Originally posted by shihulud
I remember reading something about this a few years ago and have found that it could be quite genuine (although how old I couldnt guess).
The reason that there is not many writings about it is that the area was not highly populated until the late 19th century and most of them were looking for land and not hebrew inscriptions and such like. There is however other evidence of hebrews in America and this evidence could corroborate these inscriptions - In the 1860's a condensed version of the 10 commandments were found in an ancient burial site in Ohio Link.
A quick root about the internet has unearthed these as well
link and link.
Another guy who has found stuff is Gene Savoy in 1989 link and link I haven't researched these links so I dont really know if they are authentic but they make good reading


G

Alrite, the 10 commandments is so american, what an american culture.
Just like american pit bull which is not american at all.

Originally posted by CinLung
Alrite, the 10 commandments is so american, what an american culture.
Just like american pit bull which is not american at all.

We get that you have come here to make fun of us Americans, but that adds nothing to the argument of whether there were ancient Hebrews in the Americas. Incidentally there were no modern "Americans" there at the time, just the natives Europeans later referred to as Indians. As a treasure hunter, I believe the King Solomon story. Stone carvings show up all over the American southwest that treasure hunters attribute to the Spanish, but I believe them to be much older.

While we are talking about discovering America you must take into account the story of Zheng He. Although he certainly was no ancient Hebrew.

One of the many instructions given to the Hopis by the Creator at this time was that they should migrate all over this continent and, while doing so, they should leave their picture writing and clan symbols upon the rocks near their ruins as a sign that the Hopis were the first and were rightfully holding this entire continent in trust for the Creator. In regard to this they were told by the Creator that a time would come when another race would come upon this land and claim it all, but that these Hopi writings upon the rocks would justly retain and hold the ownership of this land by the Hopi in trust for the Creator

64.233.167.104...:ZSmN8J-cJEAJ:www.viewzone.com/hopi.prophecy.html+hopi+prophesy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ca

It seems that there is some evidence in the Hopi records that the same God that the Jews worshiped was also working with other people and before the Exodus.....even before Abraham.

John 10:15-17 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

Bible gateway.

Here Jesus talks about the North American Indians among others. It is part of the Hopi history that talks about the time they were visited by the Son of the Creator. He was going to come back for them at a later date.

Today, many of the prophecies have turned to stories, and few are left -- the past grows longer, and the future grows shorter. "And now White Feather is dying. His sons have all joined his ancestors, and soon he too shall be with them. But there is no one left, no one to recite and pass on the ancient wisdom. My people have tired of the old ways -- the great ceremonies that tell of our origins, of our emergence into the Fourth World, are almost all abandoned, forgotten, yet even this has been foretold. The time grows short. "My people await Pahana, the lost White Brother, [from the stars] as do all our brothers in the land. He will not be like the white men we know now, who are cruel and greedy. we were told of their coming long ago. But still we await Pahana. "He will bring with him the symbols, and the missing piece of that sacred tablet now kept by the elders, given to him when he left, that shall identify him as our True White Brother.

www.spiritwheel.com...

When you think about it, the things Jesus preached have been pretty much trampled on since he hasn't been around to defend himself. The scholars and learned people have always rejected his message, thinking they know better. It is not a popular message for those people with eyes full of glitter. The way of the modern world has no time for this hokus pokus garbage, if you can't control it or proffit by it, it isn't worth a plug nickel.

The Hopis also have in their possession the stone tablets that Masaw gave to them. These are not ordinary stones that could have been made in America, but ivory stones with hieroglyphs cut into them with strange figures... like those carved in Egypt on the temples.
Figures of headless men, swastikas, and snakes. One corner of the Fire Clan Tablet has a corner missing. It was broken off when Masawa gave the stone to the Hopi, and this piece was given to the White Brother as proof that he could return and join in the Ceremonies, finally completing the Cycle making this a paradise on Earth, complete with joyful songs to the Creator from the rooftops. Old Oribia will be rejuvenated and rain will come for all the crops for all four brothers on Mother Earth.

There are sketches with interpretations about them at this site

64.233.167.104...:sInYcGJ2j-YJ:www.viewzone.com/thomasomills.html+hopi+prophesy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

Too busy reading to learn how to shorten the links, sory.

This is what he said, as marked on the tablet: After the Fire Clan had migrated to their permanent home, the time would come when they would be overcome by a strange people. They would be forced to develop their land and lives according to the dictates of a new ruler, or else they would be treated as criminals and punished. But they were not to resist. They were to wait for the person who would deliver them. This person was their lost white brother, Pahana, who would return to them with the missing corner piece of the tablet, deliver them from their prosecutors, and work out with them a new and universal brotherhood of man. But, warned Masawa, if their leader accepted any other religion, he must assent to having his head cut off. This would dispel the evil and save his people.

The panel selection is too small to attempt a reconstruction of the language and script usage characteristics but some tentative possibilities and tentative translations will be presented in this article.

We (Harris and Hone) would like to see Phil Leonard team up with a competent and courageous West Semitic scholar (one not afraid to challenge main stream canonized doctrine) and reconstruct the language and script usage in the Purgatory inscriptions (beginning where Harris and Hone left off).

We suggest that there is a very great possibility, indicated by both the language and the script, that these ancients who wrote the Purgatory River [or Picket Wire River] inscriptions, were descendents of the Old Semitic speakers up from Mexico that became the Hohokam. They were likely members of the colony that were sent to the Virgin River area and, sometime later, whose descendents moved East, mixing with more of their Desert Archaic cousins.

It is also quite possible that this eastward movement resulted in a loss of reading and writing skills which furthered diversity of dialects and languages. Pueblo brothers and sisters say "hello" to some of your ancestors, "Shalom."

www.viewzone.com...

This paper really speakes to the idea that there was a connection here. Wether it is right or not?

We're at that time now. The Eagle has landed on the moon, 1969. When that spaceship landed they sent back the message, "The Eagle has landed." Traditionally, Native people from clear up in the Inuit region, they have shared with us this prophecy, clear down to the Quechuas in South America. They shared with us that they have this prophecy. When they heard those first words, "The Eagle has landed," they knew that was the start of a new time and a new power for Native people. There was absolutely nothing strong before us now. We may do anything we wish.

www.ausbcomp.com...

One could spend years reading all of the material. If you want to brush aside the topic by finding some off shoot thoughts and claiming that they are the original, have at it......that seems to be our legacy to the world. We want to bend and shape things till they fit our agenda.

This thread isn't about whether arabic is god's language or not. THe artifcat not beingin arabic is meaningless. Lets stick to the topic.


It looks like there is a real difference of opinion as to what the language on the tablets is. In the 40s, pfeifer was saying it was paleo-hebrew. Others are saying its Phonecian. STill others are saying its specifically a byzantine era dialect of samaritan which includes greek letters.


I think that the Mormon angle is interesting, BUT, the mormons werent' the first to make commandment 10 involve wives rather than oxen. I don't think that that rules it a mormon artifact. BUT, the idea that mormons were obsessed with phonecian as a sort of 'proto-hebrew' or something along those lines, does seem particularly likely here, IF its phonecian, and not samaritan or paleo-hebrew.

As far as the aging, when the object was first discovered and studied, it apparently wasn't as fresh looking as the current photo, it had lichen and a mineral patina over it, and has been apparently cleaned and subjected to rubbings since then. So, while it can probably still be dated, I don't think we can be too certain from a recent photo.

This stone is close to the Purgatory River carvings. Those are mixed with Dino tracks etc., which might confuse things with overlaying cultures.

That takes me into a whole other area that I am reading up on also.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but havn't roman and greek coins surfaced in New England soil? Not to mention the giant stone heads resembling people of african descent found all over South America.

If someone were transversing the oceans anyway (regardless of how they were doing it) then I see no reason why this couldn't be genuine. The Hebrew people have certainly been around for that long.

Just my 2 cents.

BUT, the idea that mormons were obsessed with phonecian as a sort of 'proto-hebrew' or something along those lines, does seem particularly likely here, IF its phonecian, and not samaritan or paleo-hebrew.

I must admit Im confused.

Not to misquote Marduk but what I think he was saying is that paleo-Hebrew and Phoenician are one and the same and if that is indeed true it really could have been the mormons. And from my research that looks to be true.

But I still dont understand why there is a distinction between the two languages if they are basically the same.

On the other hand there seems to be several linguist or archaeologist that claim the stone carvings date from at least 500 to 2000 years ago and are paleo-Hebrew.

I know the stone is controversial as far as the date it was carved but there is anecdotal evidence that has been posted on this thread that purports to show ancient visitors from the middle east in the America's dating back at least 2000 years.

As with many controversial finds the preponderance of the evidence from all sources and not any individual source will show if these things are real or not.

[edit on 16-2-2007 by etshrtslr]

On the other hand there seems to be several linguist or archaeologist that claim the stone carvings date from at least 500 to 2000 years ago and are paleo-Hebrew.

you're missing the point
if the stone contained the declaration of independance would you still think it was 2000 years old
it does actually contain the ten commandments according to the church of the latter day saints
the ten commandments no matter what you may have heard were never written in stone
there are differences between those of different religions
the ones on the stone are particular only to mormonism

for me this is a very easy question and I must admit to having an advantage
I am a total carnivore and would happily covet my neighbours Ox if he was having a barbecue
so noticing that this element was missing is a real giveaway

Originally posted by groingrinder

While we are talking about discovering America you must take into account the story of Zheng He. Although he certainly was no ancient Hebrew.

Yes, as the matter of fact Zheng He was on America before Columbus.
And Zheng He is a moeslem, not english man.

the Viking made it before Zheng he is alleged to have made it
the indians made it before the vikings did

funnily enough both of these groups made it before Islam existed

the ten commandments no matter what you may have heard were never written in stone

I guess a pun was intended there.

Honestly I did not know there were different versions of the 10 commandments.

Correct if Im wrong here but before it was written thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife it was thou shalt not covet thy neighbors ox?

I heard some are into sheep but I never knew anyone was into ox.

Honestly I did not know there were different versions of the 10 commandments

dude
theres two different versions in the original Hebrew bible
you can find and compare them yourself in
Exodus 20:2-17 www.mechon-mamre.org...
Deuteronomy 5:6-21 www.mechon-mamre.org...

then you have
the Catholic ten commandments
the Moslem ten commandments
the protestant ten commandments
the samaritan ten commandments
the Mormon ten commandments
plus many others

all of which differ from one another
which is surprising seeing as they were supposed to have been written on two stone tablets by God on the top of Mt Sinai and handed directly to Moses

Well, I will agree with Marduk on this one.

That particular stone with those inscriptions, were probably a hoax perpetrated by some humans.....we are prone to doing this.

There are plenty of examples of this type throughout the world.

As for other people visiting North America. There has probably been others that are not recorded. The fact that one group of Native Americain Indians were white skined, which cannot be denied or claimed to be a hoax, is proof that travel between Europe and North America has been around since people have been on this Planet.

There were a lot of records lost during the dark ages. We still seem to be stumbling around in the dark at times.

That particular stone with those inscriptions, were probably a hoax perpetrated by some humans.....we are prone to doing this.

I don't think they were a hoax
that would imply that when they were carved the intention was to fool someone
when in fact they were just carved as a homage to God by some mormon soldiers during the mexican war
they have been deliberately misrepresented by people with a clear agenda since then
its very obvious that this set if commandments are not the ones that Hebrews would have carved to anyone who knows anything at all about the actual ten commandments handed to Moses by YHWH on Mt Sinai
but you gotta wonder why all these acclaimed experts claiming they are ancient didn't mention that eh

Originally posted by Marduk

I don't think they were a hoax
that would imply that when they were carved the intention was to fool someone
when in fact they were just carved as a homage to God by some mormon soldiers during the mexican war
they have been deliberately misrepresented by people with a clear agenda since then
its very obvious that this set if commandments are not the ones that Hebrews would have carved to anyone who knows anything at all about the actual ten commandments handed to Moses by YHWH on Mt Sinai
but you gotta wonder why all these acclaimed experts claiming they are ancient didn't mention that eh

You are Communist, you are Atheist, you have no God, you are the enemy of Democracy, you are the enemy of 1.5 billion + 2.1 billion, you are against the American, you must be exterminated. You are the pain, you are the disease. You are Russian Chinese.
You are the TERRORISTS.






Oh my God, do American read and learn?

You are Communist, you are Atheist, you have no God, you are the enemy of Democracy, you are the enemy of 1.5 billion + 2.1 billion, you are against the American, you must be exterminated. You are the pain, you are the disease. You are Russian Chinese.

oh so you finally got your Al Quaeda manifesto in the post
when are you holidaying in cuba ?

Marduk's explanation seems the most logical to me.

Interesting artifact though, I had never heard about it before.

Originally posted by Marduk
I am a total carnivore and would happily covet my neighbours Ox if he was having a barbecue
so noticing that this element was missing is a real giveaway

I understand that you are saying that the hebrews, at the time that some are saying this stone was made, had as their 10th commandment to not covet your neighbhors ox, and that that supports this not being a 2,000 or so year old hebrew inscription, and I understand that it being in phonecian jives with it being from the mormons, because they apparently thought it was a holy langauge, but I don't understand why the mormons are being said to be the ones that replaced ox with 'wife'. Isnt that how it is in all christian sects?

the mormons official tenth commandment is just "thou shalt not covet


the wife bit comes in on some ancient variants and not in others
it is in both versions of the ten commandments in the bible
most of the earlier versions all have not to covet certain things including wives, ox maid servants and man servants (kinky eh)
the reason why is rather obvious
the mormons didn't have so much livestock and when they did it was branded so the neighbour could covet it all he wanted but couldnt steal it and get away with it

the samaritans have a great list as well
they had an 11th commandment that instructs the Samaritans to worship on Mt. Gerizim.
you can find the real reason there are only ten right here

www.youtube.com...







[edit on 20-2-2007 by Marduk]

[edit on 20-2-2007 by Marduk]

[edit on 20-2-2007 by Marduk]