On to something huge here! (UFO HOAX)

Nice 3rd Party account from ufonews.tv...

I happen to live in Cleveland O, and frequently fish on the shores of Lake Erie up and down the shores from Burklakefront airport to as far west as the islands. First off, this film cannot be recent, it might have been posted on Feb. 6, but it is impossible to have been filmed on that date. The shore line of Lake Erie has ice formed near the shoreline we have had temperatures for the last week at or near zero degrees…I was last week in Detroit/windsor canada and the shores there had sheets of ice then, with only the shipping lanes flowing freely. I know the Cleveland shorelines initamately and there are no rocks immediatly surrounding the airport area. There are no bridges where cars would have headlights that would appear over the water. The persons in the video even talk about the lights coming from the direction of Elyria, which is in fact west of the Cleveland area, however N.A.S.A is not in Elyria, it is in Brookpark Ohio, which is about 15 miles sw of Cleveland. And N.A.S.A doesn’t test any aircraft there. It is strickly a developement center. I have a cousin that works there… It is possible to have been farther east of the airport, where there is rocks on the shoreline, but if that were the case, the lights in the background on the shoreline when the lens is opened would have been Cleveland, and they would not have referred to it as Elyria. They would have known it was Cleveland. And again if it were east of Cleveland and east of the airport, the shoreline would have the power plant visible in it, and it would also have the marina visible, because both would have blocked the view of the airport.

Lake Erie
Tonight: southwest winds 5 to 10 knots. Mostly cloudy.
Saturday: west winds 10 to 15 knots. Mostly sunny.
Saturday Night: southwest winds 10 knots or less. Partly cloudy.
Sunday: southwest winds 10 knots or less increasing to 10 to 15 knots. Mostly sunny.
Waves omitted due to the nearshore waters being mostly ice covered.
See lake erie open lakes forecast for Monday through Wednesday.
The water temperature off toledo is 36 degrees, off cleveland 32 degrees and off erie 32 degrees.

National Weather Service

Lastly it may have been helicopters doing a search and rescue mission or training for such. The coast guard has their stations right in that vicinity and operate many times out of Burke Lakefront.. There are many unwise boaters that get caught out on the water and have to send out distress calls for tows in, that may account for the low flight path…

As far as it being aircraft, The burke lakefront airport only caters to small engine jets and aircraft. Some helicopters, but no large commercial airliners. The runways are too short to accomodate such aircraft. And there is hardly ever flights running at night, much less that kind of traffic. You will never see planes in a holding pattern that low over the water. And I have spent many a night fishing late into the wee hours of the night, and the lights seen in the video are way to large to be the smaller aircraft that lands at Burke. Cleveland Hopkins airport will send aircraft into a holding pattern that often times goes over the lake but again they fly at a much higher level, further more the lights are not consistant with any I have seen…If they were flying that low they would have hit the buildings in downtown Cleveland on their way to Hopkins airport which shares the same property as N.A.S.A. which as iI have said is about 15 miles sw of Cleveland.

One last note however my husband works about 15-20 east of Cleveland and takes the shoreway home everynight. And after seeing this video, he says that yesterday he saw the very same lights comming in low over the lake and then pass over the highway in front of him. He thought it was a large military helicopter but he said he had never seen anything that large. But he could not make out any sort of a body just saw the bright pulsating lights. Soooooo……I leave you to your own conclusions….ask me about the Lake Erie monster….That I have seen with about four other witnesses!

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Silly me I should have scrolled down the page more to see Michael’s posting. I was correct in my assumption that it was filmed east of Cleveland. Eastlake is about 30-40 miles east of Cleveland. So again the aircraft would not be flying that low over the water to land at Burke that far away. But it still could be a search and resucue operation by helicopters, given the date that it was filmed (and again I was right that it was not recent) And my husband works in Euclid ohio which is about half way between Eastlake and Cleveland, which is bout where these lights appear to be out over the water at..soooo….all the data I have is that the lights are not likely to be commercial aircraft. Nice one Michael…We have seen strange lights as well.

Frozenthought, I appreciate your argument but would like for you to consider commiting your footage to the near DVD.
I think that we or you need clear evidence that these are indeed not planes.
We are able to prove if push comes to shove the validity of the video. There are people in the area, who can and will film, from the site in question, aircraft landing.
We can correlate this via the live tracking system as to which aicraft are in the area or are visible in relation to the camera at the time of filming exactly.
If this can be validated it will completely make the footage void and not gain, but hinder any respect in the UFO community. Are you prepared to take this jepopardy?
I'm hoping that you are right, but this is important for all.

Xeros

Originally posted by Xeros
Frozenthought, I appreciate your argument but would like for you to consider commiting your footage to the near DVD.
I think that we or you need clear evidence that these are indeed not planes.
We are able to prove if push comes to shove the validity of the video. There are people in the area, who can and will film, from the site in question, aircraft landing.
We can correlate this via the live tracking system as to which aicraft are in the area or are visible in relation to the camera at the time of filming exactly.
If this can be validated it will completely make the footage void and not gain, but hinder any respect in the UFO community. Are you prepared to take this jepopardy?
I'm hoping that you are right, but this is important for all.

Xeros

I am all for it, send some one out to burke and let us know. By the way, I feel no jeopardy whatsoever, I even say in the clip, "I don't know what they are", I can't be more clear than that.

So, do I believe they are planes...NO, Do I believe they are Car headlights or poilce cars....NO, Do I know what they are.....NO

That is where I stand

If Someone put a gun to my head and said tell us what you think they are, I would have to say a ET UFO or a black military project.

[edit on 10-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

FrozenThought. Whatever is going on I appreciate your contributions to this subject.

I have taken notice that on at least two clear posts you claim to say if you had to say what you lean to be the truth of this would be that of a Military Black Op.

I also liked what Sensfan said about the more we have the discussion the closer we will get to finding the Truth.

Truth, are you out there? We are looking for you!

i live in Australia down in Victoria and i have seen these thing or what looks like these thing i think your really onto sumthing

Originally posted by QuietSoul
I'm quite curious here.. when did you record this footage? Because most I've lived on Lake Erie for over 20 years. It's in my backyard. I've spent countless nights laid out on my back deck watching over the night sky. Not once have I ever seen anything other then a slew of planes headed for Cleveland Hopkins Airport.

Another weak hoax.

Although I wont claim out and out hoax here, merely a case of ramped up exuberance and ambition causing some temporary blindness, I have to agree with QS on this on completely. I also spent a good chunk of my early life on Lake Erie, in Chautauqua County in NY.

I also have seen myriads of lights , some exactly like these others with slight differences, depending on the weather conditions at the time. They have always turned out to be coast guard helos or planes on approach to Buffalo or Erie, etc. Some have even turned out to be light bent by inversion from the Canadian coastline miles away across the lake, although these lights in the video are not that. Never have they exhibited any nonballistic behavior. If this video shown some type of behavior not indicative of a terrestrial aicraft I would certainly allow myself to change my tune, unlike some here I have an open mind to alternative explanations for what is being seen.

Why is the debate hanging on whether these are planes on approach to Burke? The approach pattern for northerly flights from Mich., Minn., and points above and to the west of Cleveland, and maybe from other points as well, is identical to the approach pattern for Hopkins International, where there are large commercial craft inbound.

Source

Look at the 9k ft. runway aproach headings. Perfect for a lazy right turn over Lake Erie for a NE to SW aproach to Hopkins. Well thats my piece and I stand with aircraft ATM, with the option to be compellingly convinced otherwise in the future. Good luck on this as it stands. It dont look very easy for you at this point.

defcon5,

They start to be funneled into the TCA around 40 miles out…

Yes. This is called initial approach. It is common for commercial planes(jets) to start being vectored at 30-40 miles out but I was reffering to final approach. Hint-Final approach is when the plane is being lined up with the runway and ready to land! Do you see the difference?

Final approach is not the only area of the landing pattern, and it is not specifically motioned by me. Not only can they appear to hover, but they can actually hover under the correct conditions as I will show you below.

I did not say final approach is the only area of the landing pattern. In fact it is the last part of landing procedure. Anyone with fundamental flying knowledge aleady knows that!

Your last sentence is very silly! Unless the plane is flying into a severe headwind it will not appear to hover. By severe I mean 30-40 knots for a cessna and 80-100 knots for commercial jets. Under these conditions I am not sure you would be able to controll your plane anyway so what exactly are you trying to prove?

Besides, I don't remeber Frozenthought mentioning that while he was filming his ufo's there was any gale force storms, tornados or hurricanes in the immediate area!

He even said the planes were traveling away from the airport which was due west of his current location. In other words the ufos were traveling from west to east! Why is it so hard for people to comprehend or believe him

Debunking can be good and serves a purpose but debunking everything with complete disregard to the evidence only serves one purpose!!!

Can you guess which? Hint: SECRECY!

Frozenthought opens the thread with his video that he claims was taken from the area of EastLake during August yet all we have are his contention that is when/where he took the video w/o proof.

The video then starts and shows what appears to be a tripod mounted camera (could this have been staged?) Listen to the voices do they sound like someone seeing something for the very first time (you do not hear what is that nor do the voices sound surprised) no instead you hear dude look at that I have the camera on it (suggests the video was preplanned/scripted too me just by what is said by both)

He then contended that if they are plane/planes, they could not be destined for Cleveland (Hopkins) because he says the distance is too far from the water which is not true. Under certain weather conditions when landing the aircraft holding pattern for RWY 24L clearly shows it is over water. Make note of the direction of the flight pattern it is consistent with the direction the alleged UFOs were heading.

www.flightaware.com...
Pg 17 of 23 shows landing holding pattern over water for RWY 24L

In order to determine just when to go out and film something all one has to do is go to
www.flightaware.com... then select Cleveland at certain busy times of the day to determine when is best to go out and set up your camera under the correct conditions depending on wind direction. No, I am not saying this was the case; all I am doing is putting out my theory as a possibility because I now know he is the co-producer of a new upcoming HD video on UFOs.
Is that or was that a plug for CA Ching Ca Ching let the cash register ring?

Then several posts later we learn that he alleges he was mugged/drugged and never filed a Police report.

Around 2 days after that, I was drugged and awoke with my Jaw broken in three places, I had to have the left side of my face wired back together and so you know, that is also why I can't speak very well anymore because everything is now in a new location
www.abovetopsecret.com...
.

Also, did you file a police report for the assault on you? If so, any chance you will make it public? That would sure prove someone was out to get you!

I didn't file a report, I'm not sure what happened so...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not sure what happened???

Wired Jaw, Plastic surgery mentioned in another post and No Police report filed with those injuries


[edit on 2/10/2007 by shots]

Skeptical in your screen name, you don't say? You know what, I don't care if you you believe my footage is real or not, but when you attack me personally, That is another story

You are really stretching now :-) Did I stage it? Do you know what you sound like when I & my creator know everything I have said is 100% true, staged it? I have been going to the lake for years now, I have hours more footage to prove that and both daytime & nightime footage, 4 of my other clips were used in "UFO's unplugged with Dan Akroyd", did I stage all of those as well?

Did I stage 100's of people calling into a local Cleveland radio show here in Cleveland reporting UFO's over Lake Erie as well, I am not the only one seeing this stuff ya know, i am the only one filming it.

Your mentality scares me.

Everytime I go down to the Lake, I have my Tripod with me, You know they are not a new invention or something? that's kinda what they were designed to do ya know? They are $24.99 at walmart, they do make video come out a lot nicer don't you think?

that is what I do, it is fun for me, I live right near Lake Erie, I have lived here all of my life, if you don't believe me, that is because you have no trust in anybody anymore, it is really sad.

And what business is it of your if I filed a police report? None is the correst answer, You really need to get a life, yours must truly suck with your outlook towards your fellow man.



[edit on 10-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

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Deleted large quote of post directly above

[edit on 10/2/07 by masqua]

I am sure this video is not staged. I wonder why we are not discussing the similar videos here: www.ORBWATCH.COM
It seems that a woman taped the similar objects a couple of years ago. They are planes, ufos or alien spaceship. But Frozenthoughts video is definitely not staged.

[edit on 10-2-2007 by manastin]

[edit on 10-2-2007 by manastin]

Originally posted by Frozenthought

Originally posted by shots
No, I am not saying this was the case; all I am doing is putting out my theory as a possibility because I now know he is the co-producer of a new upcoming HD video on UFOs.

Originally posted by Frozenthought
You know what, I don't care if you you believe my footage is real or not, but when you attack me personally, That is another story

Oh man you are over the hill nowhere did I attack you as you put it. I clearly stated it was a theory I had.

The only reason I questioned your alleged injury/drugging/mugging whatever it was, was because I find it very odd that one could sustain injuries that required major surgery without reporting it not only odd but very questionable.

Also allow me to point out I blew your alleged suggestion out of the water that if they were planes they could not have been headed to Cleveland when in fact under the right conditions they do have a holding pattern that is out over lake Erie. In case you did not check out that link please do; you will find that the holding pattern and the direction of the objects in question flew in the very same direction as the holding pattern and would be consistant with what a plane would do when landing.

[edit on 2/10/2007 by shots]

It's funny how some threads get crowded with skeptics when others go with only a few. It makes you wonder.

FrozenThought, since you are new you should know that this is a typical process of how some very intelligent people here at ATS will give their opinion, and though it may seem like personal attacks, they are being honest. You may have had some bad experiences in the past, and I can see how you take it personally. However, I think you have some very good footage and I think the only way to prove it one way or the other is with similar footage of known aircraft. I have not seen any photos that have convinced me yet that your video is of airplanes, but I will also say it is a possibility.

I would say that the people here are truly looking for the truth, but apparently it only happens on selected threads and yours seems to be one of them. I think to see such response, you should take that as meaning you have better material than most. In most cases of obvious identifiable cases, you don't get very many responses.

I would say one way to prove your video is to take more footage of everyday airplane activity in the same area and show us why this video should be considered to be something different. That will go a long way in supporting your case.

So don't take everything personal, and consider it constructive criticism, and work on building your case. You will always find members here willing to listen.

Frozenthought, I suggested earlier in your important thread -- go easy on yourself and not get muchly-mixed within other members that will take a different view of your great video.

We were not there with you when you taped it/them and the most important thing here, in my opinion, the vid has not been seriously disputed that I can read, but your nerves may have.

Keep cool. You've generated a lot of interest with your vid, and that's a good thing as it's increasingly obvious there's something to it. Good Stuff !!

Dallas

I have no reason to believe that Frozen is faking or hoaxing anything. Worst case scenario he may be afraid to find out that what he captured is not a UFO. But I don't think he knows it is a plane and is trying to pass it as something else. The footage speaks for itself, it is mysterious.

Aggressive attepts to discredit the individual is what will keep others from coming to ATS to share their stories/vids/pics. Can we tone that down a bit?

[edit on 10-2-2007 by MiahX]

Also allow me to point out I blew your alleged suggestion out of the water that if they were planes they could not have been headed to Cleveland when in fact under the right conditions they do have a holding pattern that is out over lake Erie. In case you did not check out that link please do; you will find that the holding pattern and the direction of the objects in question flew in the very same direction as the holding pattern and would be consistant with what a plane would do when landing.

If I'm reading that chart correctly, the holding pattern is about 10 to 14 NM from Hopkins? At 3000 feet?

If that's the case, it would put the pattern pretty much over Burke. Again, if I'm reading the chart correctly, those objects in Michael's video would still be around 8 miles east of the holding pattern for Hopkins traffic.

I think the video is awesome!!! In no way do the actions of these craft resemble any planes that I've ever seen. And hey, If you're the co-producer of the dvd that this footage will be featured on, then good for you! You shouldn't feel guilty about bringing something like this to the table. It enables you to be a part of the process of sharing this, and other evidence to the public. Keep up the good work Frozenthought!!!

Originally posted by bigdaddy7ftr
I think the video is awesome!!! In no way do the actions of these craft resemble any planes that I've ever seen. And hey, If you're the co-producer of the dvd that this footage will be featured on, then good for you! You shouldn't feel guilty about bringing something like this to the table. It enables you to be a part of the process of sharing this, and other evidence to the public. Keep up the good work Frozenthought!!!

Thank you all for the kind words, I pride myself on be as honest as possible, Say what you mean and mean what you say ya know.

Anyone that know me from the start of the other thread will know I have answered every single question that has come my way, Only when some one says I am then lying or being non-truthful, that get's under my crawl ya know.

I am the the most honest cat you will come across and I pride myself on that. I have never staged anything.

Anyhow, Peace and thank you for the kind words, I needed some :-)

[edit on 11-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

Originally posted by manastin
I am sure this video is not staged. I wonder why we are not discussing the similar videos here: www.ORBWATCH.COM
It seems that a woman taped the similar objects a couple of years ago. They are planes, ufos or alien spaceship. But Frozenthoughts video is definitely not staged.

[edit on 10-2-2007 by manastin]

[edit on 10-2-2007 by manastin]

i woder the same thing? We already discussed my footage on another thread, doesn't it mean something that these objects have also been wittnessed on Lake Ontario as well mean something?

It seems a few people get it and I am thankful for that but most sem to be oblivious

Originally posted by bigdaddy7ftr
I think the video is awesome!!! In no way do the actions of these craft resemble any planes that I've ever seen. And hey, If you're the co-producer of the dvd that this footage will be featured on, then good for you! You shouldn't feel guilty about bringing something like this to the table. It enables you to be a part of the process of sharing this, and other evidence to the public. Keep up the good work Frozenthought!!!

Thank you so much!

Thanks for everyone's input in this thread - very interesting and entertaining - its pretty apparent that most people involved just want to know the truth.

Frozenthought - can I asked you why the video ends so abruptly; I know you kinda addressed that before. It would seem, however, that if this indeed was such a "strange" occurence and you were luckily able to film it, that you would have left your camera running for as long as possible.

Personally, I think there is def. a human-related explanation for what you captured on film - thanks for sharing though.