I'm Intrepid and I'm appearently a racist.....

I can't speak for others but I will certainly never stop trying to 'do right' as you put it.
I have never had a gun to my head like another poster mentioned, so until I feel that my life is threatened and develop a perfectly reasonable paranoia due to it, I will treat each individual as they present themselves to me. Not based on their skin colour, (country of origin, religion or what ever) but based on their behaviour - the way the treat me and others.
Of course I have the 'benefit' of experiencing racism as well as being accused of it, though I guess that is what all the white people here are saying.
Things have gotten to the point where minority groups are very quick to label any white a racist regardless of the situation, regardless of intent. I understand that it is because minority groups have been taught to expect racism and now whites are expectting the same thing.
There is a lot of work to be done on all sides of the issue before it will disappear.

The history of your race shouldn't be used as justification, personal experiences are much harder to ignore. If people are being treated badly for the colour of their skin now, then that is a legitimate reason to hold some prejudices, what happened between my great grandaddy and yours really shouldn't have any bearing on the current situation.
There is no reason for white people today to be burdened with the guilt of their ancestors actions, just as black/indigenous people should no longer have to carry that pain.
We should learn from history and build upon it, not dredge it up in every argument to justify current behaviour.

The problem with this is labels. The only way to end racism completely is to aknowledge that everyone is human. I live in a predomianantly ghetto neighborhood that is quite racialy/culturaly diverse. When I first started going to the corner store I used to hear "hey white boy? are you straight?" (meaning do I want to buy drugs) It took me a while to find out the correct response is "don't affront me b***h!" now living here for a while and more or less getting understood as a local in this neighborhood I don't run into the problems I used to when I first moved in. But I can see the other side of the coin now.

I have to dress pretty nice to go to work and I used to get looked at if I was from annother planet walking down the street to the bus stop. I first used to get, "hey white boy your car break down or somethin?" or "whatcha be doin in dis neighborhood man?"

So I can see how this works both ways.

It won't be till we realise that everyone is human and thus equily worthless that we get rid of racism once and for all.

i think there is racism in every community. I live in a predominantly asian (indian/pakistani) community and there are VERY few white people.
There are certain shops on the high street that when i go in, i get watched constantly. I mean, the assistants follow me around. One particular clothes shop i used to go in until i just got fed up with it. So i walked around the whole shop, back and forth, colecting items here and there in my basket, doubling up, it was quite fun to watch the shop girl trying to keep up.
Then i went to the counter and asked, why does someone always follow me in here?
She said, we're just trying to be helpful.
I said thats rubbish, no-one else seems to get as much "help" as me.
With that, i just told her i wouldnt be shopping here anymore, and left the basket on the counter.

Miffed me off too, cos it was a good shop.

I've read through the responses. This is what I have to say:

Instead of asking a person of color why this is so, this thread had to be written. And instead of trying to make things better between individuals, there is commisserating and stereotyping. Instead of dealing with racial issues head on, there is whole lot of second-guessing in the shadows about what the minority person might have meant by their words and actions (except for the incidents of crime which I give my compassion and sympathy). And all this is being done without one actual person of color calling the story-teller a racist verbatim. Not even in intrepid's case. :shk:

What else it reveals to me is exactly what these two paragraphs state in an article that talks about how different races express themselves about race-relations:

Dissident Voice

Yes, it’s true that some of us still harbor certain fears of non-white people. For example, I was socialized to be reflexively afraid of black men in public, and I still sometimes struggle with that in certain situations. And some white people fear that when non-white people gain political and economic power they may take some of “our” goodies away and then we might have to become a more just society in the distribution of resources. That would mean that we have less.

But I think the more troubling struggle for many of us white folks is the fear of being seen, and seen-through, by non-white people. If most of us white people carry some level of racism in our minds and hearts and bodies -- if we know that even when we’ve “worked on our racism” there are at least remnants of white supremacy in us -- we must know that it could come out at any time, maybe in ways we can’t control, maybe in ways so subtle we can’t even recognize it. And what if non-white people look at us and can see it? What if they can see through us? What if they can look past our carefully crafted anti-racist vocabulary and sense that we still don’t really know how to treat them as equals? What if they know about us what we don’t dare know about ourselves?

Btw, thank you, Ngydan, for your words. I wish there was a special WATS I could give you.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Racism goes both ways.......

What does that mean exactly?

Does that statement actually enlighten anyone?

"Oh my god, I've just realised [insert colour here] people can be racist too".

Do we actually have people on this board who believe anything to the contrary?

Racism goes way beyond skin colour, which is something that need not be said if you have a true understanding of the issues at hand.

Racism is not black and white, literally and metaphorically.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Instead of asking a person of color why this is so, this thread had to be written. And instead of trying to make things better between individuals, there is commisserating and stereotyping.

Agreed, although it shouldn't, it continues to surprise me just how many people fall back on stereotypes as an example for an entire group of individuals believing it to be the norm......

p.s. Intrepid, sorry for the wayward smiley in my initial post, poor editing on my behalf.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Koka]

Originally posted by intrepid
I'm tired, DAMN tired of being accused of being a racist because of the colour of MY skin.

AMEN!! Add to that .... how about tired of being called a racist by certain black people every time you (generic you) point out something wrong a black person did. Oh you MUST be a racist because you don't close your eyes to something wrong they did or said (sarcasim). It can't possibly be because that black person actually did something wrong, can it??? :shk: Freak'n stuuuuuuuuuuuuupid... and it's just anti-white racism.

Those people have become what they claim to hate .. they are now idiot racists themselves (as well as freak'n morons).

Originally posted by Nygdan
why, in the world, should anyone have any sympathy for whites who feel that they are being oppressed??

Because it's WRONG behavior to treat people in that manner. Saying that it's okay to treat a white person like that because they are white and because other white people in a different place and time did it to non-whites ... that's wrong.

And its not like racism is 'dead' amoung whites now anyway.

So it's okay for idiot anti-white racists to go around calling white people racist names (when they aren't) because there are some moron white racists elsewhere??

Sorry NYGDAN .. I usually agree with you but not this time.

Edited to add this -

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
"Miss Scarlett" here...

NYGDAN Case in point .... it's okay for a black person to toss idiotic names at BH and call her something racist (when she clearly isn't), because other people in other places are racists?? That doesn't make sense. A 'free pass' to be racist because you are black?? That's just wrong.


[edit on 2/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Not for nothing, but SO WHAT if white peopel are 'tired' of being treated differently for the colour of their skin. They did if for a thousand years and conquered the whole world while using that ideology.

Nygdan,
Not for nothing, but SO WHAT if Black people are 'tired' of being treated differently for the colour of their skin. They (*insert historical reason*)...etc

Enough said?

Originally posted by Nygdan
But still, so what, white peopel are FREAKING OUT over the tiniest degree of racism, just imagine what it was like for the rest of the planet.

www.loompanics.com...

Originally posted by Nygdan
White people freak out that a black guy might get a job through affirmative action.

False.
People in general want the best man for the job and affirmative action by its very nature hinders that effort.

Originally posted by Nygdan So what, white people slapped together ships, and sailed across the world to another continent to purchase people and make them slaves. I mean, why, in the world, should anyone have any sympathy for whites who feel that they are being oppressed?? And its not like racism is 'dead' amoung whites now anyway.

Again,
So what, black people (*insert historical excuse here*). I mean, why, in the world, should anyone have any sympathy for blacks who feel that they are being oppressed?? And its not like racism is 'dead' amoung blacks now anyway.

You can't honestly expect anyone to just sit tight while they are discriminated against for no fualt of their own.


[edit on 9-2-2007 by JohnDoe43]

Originally posted by Koka

Agreed, although it shouldn't, it continues to surprise me just how many people fall back on stereotypes as an example for an entire group of individuals believing it to be the norm......

Thank you, Koka, for saying that. I also agree with you. It would have been better to use the time to try understanding each other from all walks of life instead of resorting to stereotypes. Using stereotypes are safe. But it takes great courage to ask these issues of a person different than one's self and take what they say without resorting to insecurities. But, it is so easy these days to be afraid.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Not for nothing, but SO WHAT if white peopel are 'tired' of being treated differently for the colour of their skin.

Man I thought you were being satiricle for a minute. So you are okay with racism.. so long as it's only directed at whites? Guess that makes you job as a mod more clear cut.

They did if for a thousand years and conquered the whole world while using that ideology.

Did we? I must say I'm fairly disgusted by this statement.. it implies that you think all racism against whites is merely justified 'payback'. I'm of Irish decent and my ancestors went through ALOT for being Irish.
The egyptions tried to conquer the world and did their own fair share of enslaving and they were african.. in fact christian culture ['white'] is heavily influenced by egyption culture [oh the irony]. Kind of evens things out then eh? Oh hang on.. the jews haven't enslaved anyone yet. They've got first dibs on the anglos next time!

But still, so what, white peopel are FREAKING OUT over the tiniest degree of racism,

'Tiny' as in.. me being persecuted at school for being a 'skip' or being struck by rocks at a train station by a gang for being a 'white slut'.. or 'tiny' as an old friend of mine was one of the victims of the race gang rapes in Sydney? She was raped with broken bottles and other objects lieing around and rendered infertile.. but I guess you've got more of a grasp on 'degrees' of racism than I do.

White people freak out that a black guy might get a job through affirmative action. So what, white people slapped together ships, and sailed across the world to another continent to purchase people and make them slaves.

Actually there were also spanish and african slave traders.. but why gets into pesky details like facts..

Honestly, any racism is wrong, but

'but' as in disregard the part where you say racism is wrong and replace it with..

seriously, whites should pay attention and realize that if they are 'chaffing' under this 'suffering', wtf was it like for the people that were actually being hauled off in chains, had their countries become colonies, etc??

Guess what? I had a couple of ancestors hauled off in chains as well.
Thanks Nydgen for reminding me why I don't come here anymore.

The new ATS motto: Sanctioning biggotry.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by riley]

Originally posted by intrepid
Let me tell you about a RL episode. I was working as a floor walker about 12 years ago. These 2 guys came into this store with an open duffle bag. One was black the other white. I was watching them both. They were pro's. They found me out and the black guy says that I'm watching him because he was black. I almost kicked his ass on the spot for calling me a racist. I was watching them because they came in with an open duffle bag.

Guess what, Intrepid? You were scammed. They expected your response, and while the black guy was busy keeping your attention, the white guy was stealing the store blind.

Originally posted by riley
Actually there were also spanish and african slave traders..

And Portugal. And the Muslim Barbary Pirates! YIKES ... ever read up on them? Millions of Euros and Africans taken into slavery!

And the Romans. And the Greeks. And the Egyptians. And the Irish who were enslaved. And the African tribes who enslaved each other. And the tens of thousands of Africans who are STILL practicing slavery on each other NOW. And the Asians who are enslaving children and young women in the sex markets. And the women sex slaves in northern Europe. And the Muslim countries who have slaves as 'booty' from their tribal wars. And the list goes on and on and on ...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
And the tens of thousands of Africans who are STILL practicing slavery on each other NOW.

I guess they didn't hear about the civil war in your country.

And the Asians who are enslaving children and young women in the sex markets. And the women sex slaves in northern Europe. And the Muslim countries who have slaves as 'booty' from their tribal wars. And the list goes on and on and on ...

History repeats.. ex. lots of female backpackers end up working in asian strip joints/brothels hoping to buy their stolen passports back. The slave trade is very hush-hush nowadays; if you don't 'belong' to anybody [family, friends, tourist group] and are in a strange country you're fair game.

After reading Nygdan's post, I for one am silenced. It is not like his post told me something I did not already know, but it was a long overdue slap in the face that I, and some of us, needed. Yeah it can be a pain in the ass from time to time, and I would hope to see it curbed in the future, but I have little to complain about. Minor annoyances compared to years of slavery, torture, and genocide... yeah, I'm silenced.

Well Said!

Modern african americans don't know any more about slavery than modern whites do.
To rationalise racist behaviour with something that happened generations ago is ridiculous. This plays on the misplaced guilt that many whites are expectted to feel for something they played no part in and would certainly like to change if they had the opportunity.

As to asking a person of minority these questions - well, I thought it was an open forum and the question was directed to any and all interested members. As a black Australian I felt that I had the right to respond. And yes 'my people' have suffered terribly at the hands of white people, they had their country, their freedom, their rights and their children forcibly taken from them. That does not give me any more right to complain about racism than any one else, neither does it automatically give me the right to recall those grievances any time I am mistreated, they are the grievances of my ancestors, not me.

If you live in the past there is no way you can build your future.

www.revisionisthistory.org...

Up to one-half of all the arrivals in the American colonies were Whites slaves and they were America's first slaves. These Whites were slaves for life, long before Blacks ever were. This slavery was even hereditary. White children born to White slaves were enslaved too.

Whites were auctioned on the block with children sold and separated from their parents and wives sold and separated from their husbands. Free Black property owners strutted the streets of northern and southern American cities while White slaves were worked to death in the sugar mills of Barbados and Jamaica and the plantations of Virginia.

The Establishment has created the misnomer of "indentured servitude" to explain away and minimize the fact of White slavery. But bound Whites in early America called themselves slaves. Nine-tenths of the White slavery in America was conducted without indentures of any kind but according to the so-called "custom of the country," as it was known, which was lifetime slavery administered by the White slave merchants themselves.

In George Sandys laws for Virginia, Whites were enslaved "forever." The service of Whites bound to Berkeley's Hundred was deemed "perpetual." These accounts have been policed out of the much touted "standard reference works" such as Abbott Emerson Smith's laughable whitewash, Colonists in Bondage.

I challenge any researcher to study 17th century colonial America, sifting the documents, the jargon and the statutes on both sides of the Atlantic and one will discover that White slavery was a far more extensive operation than Black enslavement. It is when we come to the 18th century that one begins to encounter more "servitude" on the basis of a contract of indenture. But even in that period there was kidnapping of Anglo-Saxons into slavery as well as convict slavery.

In 1855, Frederic Law Olmsted, the landscape architect who designed New York's Central Park, was in Alabama on a pleasure trip and saw bales of cotton being thrown from a considerable height into a cargo ship's hold. The men tossing the bales somewhat recklessly into the hold were Negroes, the men in the hold were Irish.

Olmsted inquired about this to a shipworker. "Oh," said the worker, "the 'n-word's are worth too much to be risked here; if the Paddies are knocked overboard or get their backs broke, nobody loses anything."

Before British slavers traveled to Africa's western coast to buy Black slaves from African chieftains, they sold their own White working class kindred ("the surplus poor" as they were known) from the streets and towns of England, into slavery. Tens of thousands of these White slaves were kidnapped children. In fact the very origin of the word kidnapped is kid-nabbed, the stealing of White children for enslavement.

According to the English Dictionary of the Underworld, under the heading kidnapper is the following definition: "A stealer of human beings, esp. of children; originally for exportation to the plantations of North America."

The center of the trade in child-slaves was in the port cities of Britain and Scotland:

"Press gangs in the hire of local merchants roamed the streets, seizing 'by force such boys as seemed proper subjects for the slave trade.' Children were driven in flocks through the town and confined for shipment in barns...So flagrant was the practice that people in the countryside about Aberdeen avoided bringing children into the city for fear they might be stolen; and so widespread was the collusion of merchants, shippers, suppliers and even magistrates that the man who exposed it was forced to recant and run out of town." (Van der Zee, Bound Over, p. 210).

White slaves transported to the colonies suffered a staggering loss of life in the 17th and 18th century. During the voyage to America it was customary to keep the White slaves below deck for the entire nine to twelve week journey. A White slave would be confined to a hole not more than sixteen feet long, chained with 50 other men to a board, with padlocked collars around their necks. The weeks of confinement below deck in the ship's stifling hold often resulted in outbreaks of contagious disease which would sweep through the "cargo" of White "freight" chained in the bowels of the ship.

Ships carrying White slaves to America often lost half their slaves to death. According to historian Sharon V. Salinger, "Scattered data reveal that the mortality for [White] servants at certain times equaled that for [Black] slaves in the 'middle passage,' and during other periods actually exceeded the death rate for [Black] slaves." Salinger reports a death rate of ten to twenty percent over the entire 18th century for Black slaves on board ships enroute to America compared with a death rate of 25% for White slaves enroute to America.

Foster R. Dulles writing in Labor in America: A History, states that whether convicts, children 'spirited' from the countryside or political prisoners, White slaves "experienced discomforts and sufferings on their voyage across the Atlantic that paralleled the cruel hardships undergone by negro slaves on the notorious Middle Passage."

Dulles says the Whites were "indiscriminately herded aboard the 'white guineamen,' often as many as 300 passengers on little vessels of not more than 200 tons burden--overcrowded, unsanitary...The mortality rate was sometimes as high as 50% and young children seldom survived the horrors of a voyage which might last anywhere from seven to twelve weeks."

The chronicle of White slavery in America comprises the dustiest shelf in the darkest corner of suppressed American history. Should the truth about that epoch ever emerge into the public consciousness of Americans, the whole basis for the swindle of "Affirmative action," "minority set-asides" and proposed "Reparations to African-Americans" will be swept away. The fact is, the White working people of this country owe no one. They are themselves the descendants, as Congressman Wilmot so aptly said, of "the sons of toil."

Lest we forget.

Alternative source, fully referenced: www.epado.bravehost.com...

Extracts from "The Truth About Slavery" are revealing of the nature of White slavery.

"According to Thomas Burton's Parliamentary Diary 1656-1659, in 1659 the English parliament debated the practice of selling British Whites into slavery in the New World. In the debate, these Whites were referred to not as "indentured servants" but as "slaves."

In the Calendar of State Papers, Colonial Series, America and West Indies of 1701, we read of a protest over the "encouragement to the spiriting away of Englishmen without their consent and selling them for slaves, which hath been a practice very frequent and known by the name of kidnapping." In the British West Indies, plantation slavery was instituted as early as 1627. In Barbados by the 1640s there were an estimated 25,000 slaves, of whom 21,700 were White.

…Lay historian Col. A. B. Ellis, writing in the British Newspaper Argosy for May 6, 1893, said: "Few, but readers of old colonial state papers and records, are aware that between the years 1649 to 1690 a lively trade was carried on between England and the plantations, as the colonies were then called, [a trade] in political prisoners... they were sold at auction... for various terms of years, sometimes for life, as slaves."

Sir George Sandys' 1618 plan for Virginia referred to bound Whites assigned to the treasurer's office to "belong to said office forever." The service of Whites bound to Berkeley's Hundred was deemed "perpetual.""[64]

David M. Kennedy, Lizabeth Cohen, and Thomas A. Bailey, in The American Pageant, have noted the high numbers of "indentured servants" in Virginia and Maryland.

"Because of the massive amounts of tobacco crops planted by families, "indentured servants" were brought in from England to work on the farms. In exchange for working, they received transatlantic passage and eventual "freedom dues", including a few barrels of corn, a suit of clothes, and possibly a small piece of land.

Virginia and Maryland employed the "headright" system to encourage the importation of servant workers. Under its terms, whoever paid the passage of a laborer received the right to acquire 50 acres of land.

Chesapeake planters brought some 100,000 indentured servants to the region by 1700. These "white slaves" represented more than 3/4 of all European immigrants to Virginia and Maryland in the 17th Century

White Slaves, Black Slave Owners in America

www.epado.bravehost.com...

Robert M. Grooms, in "The Johnson Family: African-American Owners of White and Black Slaves", has revealed the fact that Blacks owned White slaves in America. He also notes that a legal precedent for life-long slavery in America was established by a Black slave owner with regard to one of his Black slaves.

...In1651 Anthony Johnson [a negro] was given 250 acres as "head rights" for purchasing five incoming white redemptioners.

...In 1652 John Johnson, Anthony Johnson's eldest son, purchased eleven incoming white males and females, and received 550 acres adjacent to his father.

Originally posted by ilandrah
I think some people just like to bandy the term about because they feel that it places them in a position of power - there is no way to put a person on the defensive as quickly as to call them racist.

Fantastic point! Thank you. It can be a very powerful word and accusation.

Originally posted by shizzle5150
I had an experience before Christmas that left me bewildered to say the least ...

Wow... That sounds so scary! I'm so sorry. I don't think it means that you're racist if you feel a sense of warning or foreboding in the future under similar circumstances. If a horse kicked you in the head, you would probably be real careful about standing behind horses in the future...

But if you harbor anger and resentment for all black people and judge black people as criminals and selfish, worthless people based on this incident, then yeah, that's racist in my opinion. If you see a black mother and child walking down the street and hate on them because of the color of their skin, then yeah, I think that's racist. But if you see two black men in a car at night with their hazard lights on and you don't help them... I think that's just human...

Remember that being robbed at gunpoint is something a couple of white men could have done, too. The point is, these guys didn't rob you because they were black. They robbed you because of who they are. It's not a statement against black people. It's indicative of what some people are willing to do take advantage of other people. Regardless of color.

Originally posted by Nygdan
wtf was it like for the people that were actually being hauled off in chains, had their countries become colonies, etc??

[Not particularly aimed at you, either. ]

So... if black people today 'feel' what it was like to have been hauled off in chains, why can't I, for the life of me, 'feel' what it was like to do the hauling? Why am I not suffering under the guilt of treating another human being like that? Why do I not have the hatred of a lifetime aimed at myself?

I'll tell you why. Because I didn't do it. And just because the people who did share skin tone with me does not make me a guilty party. If I am to bear the guilt of everything white people have ever done, then I am responsible for my own rape. I am responsible and should feel guilty for child abuse, rape and murder, the Oklahoma City bombing, the Holocaust , the War in Iraq, Native American massacres, the freaking Inquisition and the Salem which trials, just to name a few...

Why is slavery the only atrocity that I’m supposed to feel guilty for???

During the slavery era, there were plenty of white people who actively fought slavery – fought it politically, helped slaves escape (underground railroads, etc) and so on. There is just as much evidence to indicate my ancestors were in this group as there is to indicate they were in the group that supported slavery. So I have just as much reason to be proud of this contribution against slavery as I do to feel guilty for support of it. Why is it assumed that my ancestors supported slavery?

It is also possible that my ancestors were themselves slaves, as is pointed out earlier. I may have just as much 'right' and reason to bear the anger and resentment that blacks do for slavery. But toward which group of people shall I aim my wrath?

Originally posted by Nygdan
I mean, why, in the world, should anyone have any sympathy for whites who feel that they are being oppressed?? And its not like racism is 'dead' amoung whites now anyway.

A. I don’t want sympathy. I just want to talk, explore, respond, discuss and analyze, especially my own feelings in an open, safe environment with others who have had similar experiences and thoughts.
B. I haven’t read that anyone is feeling “oppressed”. I’m not feeling oppressed.
C. This isn’t about “comparing” racism against blacks to racism against whites. There is NO comparison. It’s ridiculous to think there is. It’s simply about our experience.
D. Racism is alive and well. Everywhere. Between all races. No one is denying that.

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
"WTH, I might as well stop trying."

Is that what happened, intrepid and BH (and whoever else wants to answer)?

You know I haven't stopped trying. Don't you? Nobody said they stopped trying. I think we must examine our actions and reactions to really see if we are being racist. We care enough to ask ourselves and analyze our feelings and responses. Because we care. Because we aren't racist but don't know how to deal with being called such.

I'm sorry if people are uncomfortable with us talking about this, but it's the other side. Like it or not, there IS another side to racism. And I don't mean the other side is that black people are racist, too. I mean that there is a white view of racism that is very different than the "black view". It's not all about being black or in any minority. There is a white perspective to racism. And we're discussing it.

Just as there are issues in the black community and incidences of the black experience that we can never fully understand, there are thoughts and issues that white people have in dealing with black people. Realize that this thread is somewhat of the flip side of all the race threads that we've participated in together in the last year. Of course it's not the same. No one is claiming that. It's just what goes on with us. It's our experience of racism on a larger scale than just white-on-black racism.

I hope you understand.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Instead of asking a person of color why this is so, this thread had to be written.

This thread isn't about what a person of color thinks. We don't have to ask a person of color how we feel or what we experience. This "racism" thread is about how we feel and experience racism for once. You have started numerous threads about the black experience of racism. I don't understand why it's a problem that a white person starts one about our experience.

Remember, whether you acknowledge it or not, I have a race, too.

Originally posted by chissler
I for one am silenced.

I am not silenced. I, for one, will not be silenced about my feelings. I learned a while ago that being silent about how one feels causes cancer. This isn’t a “bash the blacks” thread, regardless who wishes to see it that way. And if that’s how any of you feel, then you should be slapped. This is a thread about how I, as a non-racist white person feel when I get called racist. That’s it. It has nothing to do with the suffering of blacks under slavery or anything at all that has happened to black people or anyone in the past. It’s NOT a comparison, as I have said.

Bringing up slave’s suffering in a comparative way is just an attempt to invalidate my feelings and I don’t accept that. Regardless what happened to black people in the past, my feelings today are valid.

Originally posted by ilandrah
If you live in the past there is no way you can build your future.

You have voted ilandrah for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Thank you Dock6 for your scholarly research and sources.

Originally posted by Dock6
White Slaves, Black Slave Owners in America

www.epado.bravehost.com...

Robert M. Grooms, in "The Johnson Family: African-American Owners of White and Black Slaves", has revealed the fact that Blacks owned White slaves in America. He also notes that a legal precedent for life-long slavery in America was established by a Black slave owner with regard to one of his Black slaves.

...In1651 Anthony Johnson [a negro] was given 250 acres as "head rights" for purchasing five incoming white redemptioners.

...In 1652 John Johnson, Anthony Johnson's eldest son, purchased eleven incoming white males and females, and received 550 acres adjacent to his father.

I think what you highlight here is what lies at the root of our divide, its what I recognise above all other forms of prejudice.

Class and social standing

The have and have nots, the resonance of our history is clear to see today and will continue tomorrow.

I can only concentrate on educating myself and giving my perspective, it is not without fault, it may never be, but I'm open to change and recognise my wrongs if I cannot find fault in an opposing argument.

I have seen few posts without fault, and there have been some excellent posts, I am certainly being enlightened to some aspects of history I was unaware of.

We won't solve the issue but hopefully we all take something away with us to ponder on.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by truthseeka you used MY post to establish why YOU are apparently racist

WTF Intrepid aint' racist. Why are you complaining about him implying that you said he was racist, and then saying in that complaint that he is racist????

Intrepid is not racist. The suggestion is laughable.

WTF???

I was with you until this part. Why don't you look at who created the title, "I'm Intrepid and I'm apparently a racist." Those are HIS words, not mine.