I'm Intrepid and I'm appearently a racist.....

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I just want to say again that it's interesting how when we (white people) have something to say that's about us, as Intrepid did in the first post, such serious offense is taken to the mere mention of the idea that we might have a complaint.

We're not allowed to complain about it. We should just bloody well take it.

Good point, BH. And I think this happens in areas other than race. In fact, I know it does. It tends to happen with any group that is oppressed (real or perceived) by another group.

For example, I pretty much hang out with feminists, both male and female. Several times in my life, some of the more ardent or militant feminists have told sexist jokes (sexist against men). Some of them have even been quite funny...

The point, however, is that after the laugh, when I pointed out that the teller was being sexist (something they usually argued against), they excused it by saying something like: "Well, men have been sexist for years."

Which is true. But that does not excuse someone else of behaving the same way. If it's wrong, it's wrong, eh?

I'd really like to know what else people expect from me.

A good question, I think. I actually asked one very much like it in another thread on the subject, and was more or less trashed for even asking the question.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Lastly, I want to be crystal clear on my position. I know and acknowledge that racism toward blacks, personal and institutional (as defined before) exists. I know that discrimination exists. It's wrong and I don't practice them and I stop them whenever I can. I don't know what else people want from me.

I'd really like to know what else people expect from me.

Not only from you, but "we" as any other race. What can be done? "We" can acknowledge the error of "our" (Whites) way in the past, which we do. "We" can watch "our" own step in "our" own day to day life, which "I" do. What else can be done? Can the individual do any more?

We have not forgotten our history. We are doing our best to minimize any derogatory behaviours in our day to day life. Yet these efforts have done little to alleviate any racial stigma.

This "division" of members disappoints me as well. I think a lot of this is coming from some serious misunderstandings. Read any four or five pages, and you will see exactly what I am talking about.

Some members, blacks and whites alike, "seem" to believe that they are being mistreated due to their skin color. How is that feasible? Without standing up and announcing your race, gender, age, sexual preference, etc., one can only assume. We are treated here in a matter that is dictated by our own behaviours. Again, all of these insignificant details do nothing but cause unnecessary tension, that no one but except individual acknowledges.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by chissler]

Exactly...this is a message board afterall. I find it pretty funny that this thread was even created in the first place, apparently for someone to prove that they aren't a racist. First because it doesn't seem like this person being a racist was ever seriously in question anyway (except for some minor incident that occured 12 years ago? ) Second, there is no way to "prove" that you are not a racist, especially on a message board where users are, more or less, anonymous. This is one of the more ridiculous threads I have read on ATS, and it's not even about reptilians or religious conspiracies.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Shoktek]

Originally posted by Shoktek
Exactly...this is a message board afterall. I find it pretty funny that this thread was even created in the first place, apparently for someone to prove that they aren't a racist. First because it doesn't seem like this person being a racist was ever seriously in question anyway (except for some minor incident that occured 12 years ago?

) Second, there is no way to "prove" that you are not a racist, especially on a message board where users are, more or less, anonymous. This is one of the more ridiculous threads I have read on ATS, and it's not even about reptilians or religious conspiracies.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Shoktek]

Well said!

The last sentence STILL has me rolling, and it's true; this thread is more ridiculous than reptilians, and THAT is pretty hard to beat.

Sorry Intrepid, I couldn't waste that one.

The flame war is ridiculous. The thread topic is not. Not in my eyes. The topic can be discussed in a civilised way, which hasn't happened for the majority of the thread.

Originally posted by Koka

Sorry Intrepid, I couldn't waste that one.

Funny. Too funny.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
The flame war is ridiculous. The thread topic is not. Not in my eyes. The topic can be discussed in a civilised way, which hasn't happened for the majority of the thread.

Sorry, but I don't see how this topic could ever be discussed in any civilized way. This is because there is no real "topic" to discuss, other than trying to decide whether or not intrepid, or other white people, are inherently racist because they are white. There is not any real topic here worth arguing about, and I don't see how the original poster would not have known that this would just degenerate into a flame war, or maybe that was the plan. Either way, I think he got the reaction he was looking for. If you know that you are "not a racist", then why bother creating a thread to defend yourself? You've gotta be kidding if you think this is a legitimate thread topic. It seems to just be an attempt to stir people up on either side of the debate (or different "races") and encourage this sort of behavior, or "flame war".

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Shoktek]

Excuse my terminology

This thread turned into a pissing contest a long time ago.

Points have been made and ignored on both sides.

I am guilty only for that which I am directly responsible, but I also feel guilt for living in a society that has benefitted at the suffering of others and to know that that continues today in many guises other than racism, find it hard to smile.

This is just me, I wish it wasn't but it is.

Originally posted by Shoktek You've gotta be kidding if you think this is a legitimate thread topic. It seems to just be an attempt to stir people up on either side of the debate (or different "races") and encourage this sort of behavior, or "flame war".

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Shoktek]

Check out the rant forum sometimes. There are similar threads to this one. Perhaps it's just me. But I don't feel offended one bit by the thread, like I've said before. You see that there can only be a flame war coming out of the thread. I do not see that.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Check out the rant forum sometimes. There are similar threads to this one. Perhaps it's just me. But I don't feel offended one bit by the thread, like I've said before. You see that there can only be a flame war coming out of the thread. I do not see that.

If this were in the "rant" forum, that would be fine, but I don't think it belongs with other "social issue" threads. I never said this thread offends me, it doesn't. I just don't see how anything constructive can come from it, and I think that was the intent when it was created...and throughout 17 pages of flaming and bantering, nothing constructive has come from it.

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by Shoktek You've gotta be kidding if you think this is a legitimate thread topic. It seems to just be an attempt to stir people up on either side of the debate (or different "races") and encourage this sort of behavior, or "flame war".

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Shoktek]

Check out the rant forum sometimes. There are similar threads to this one. Perhaps it's just me. But I don't feel offended one bit by the thread, like I've said before. You see that there can only be a flame war coming out of the thread. I do not see that.

Yes and after your considerable efforts to get this thread back on topic, see the top of the page folks, it WAS on track, it's being derailed AGAIN. If you don't like this thread, don't post. It's just that easy.

Originally posted by chissler
Not only from you, but "we" as any other race. What can be done? "We" can acknowledge the error of "our" (Whites) way in the past, which we do. "We" can watch "our" own step in "our" own day to day life, which "I" do. What else can be done? Can the individual do any more?

I used to be very vocal against racism directed towards anyone, but.. not when I'm being TOLD [either directly or indirectly] I am morally obligated to be because I'm white and therefore have to 'try harder' not to be racist. That would be enabling racism which I am against.
I also think if it becomes common practice for people to confess to being something they are not is dangerous as bullies might decide to use the political climate to justify hate crimes calling it 'defence'. Nazis used this angle with their propoganda, the church used it to justify burning 'witches'.. terrorist organisations use it to justify killing westerners, the US justifies it to invade countries and detain people without trial and of course slave traders used it to justify slavery. The list goes on. ALL races suffer from the scurge of racism and persecution.. but when people start believing entire races are inherently biggoted they are just repeating propoganda. The world won't change if only 'some' of us have to do the right thing. We should stand together.

[yeah I know that last part sounded corny but it's true]

[edit on 12-2-2007 by riley]

Originally posted by Shoktek
... white people, are inherently racist because they are white.

But this claim has essentially been made. If not explicitely, then by strong inference.

Yes, LOTS of white people alive today benefit from the society set up by white racists in the distant past. A society continued in the present by the power elite section of society, who benefit the most from it, without regard to race.

And LOTS of white people today would be just happy as all get-out to remove the set of racist factors from our society and replace them with a truly egalitarian set...

And LOTS of white people have exactly as much political and social power as any non-white to effect this change on a macro scale... that is, zero. All that can be done, as has been stated here over and over, is to work on an individual scale, and among the people in immediate social circles. And that is exactly what LOTS of white people do.

I think what galls is what appears to be the assumption that the white people of today who may benefit from a social structure they have no control over actively support that structure. When LOTS of us do not.

Yet you complain about the flame war that resulted...

Shoktek's right. It is quite hard to prove you're not racist, especially with a thread on an anonymous discussion forum. Hell, David Duke could get on ATS and say he lacked a racist fiber in his body, but that would obviously not be true. Yet, he should somehow be able to prove that by making a thread about how he's not racist.

Don't make sense to me...

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
But this claim has essentially been made. If not explicitely, then by strong inference.

Oh, really?

PLEASE show where this "claim" has been made, either explicitly or by strong inference.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Oh, really?

PLEASE show where this "claim" has been made, either explicitly or by strong inference.

No. I am not going to play that game. My opinion is that the claim has been made. You are free to agree or disagree with this opinion. If I go find and quote one of the posts from which I got this opinion, that will only pour gas on the fire. And I am not interested.

So, no.

Also, I don't really think it's commonplace for white people to be called "racist" to begin with...I am white, and attended public elementary, middle school, high school, as well as a community college, which all had quite a significant minority population. I can't recall one time that anyone has ever accused me of being a racist, or ever implied it, except maybe some black classmates or friends who say that stuff in a joking manner. I don't know any other white people who ever mentioned or discussed being accused of being a racist, and myself and all of my friends (as far as I know) have never had to prove to anyone that we weren't racist. Why would we?

I don't think there really is any issue whatsoever with white people being accused of racism just because they are white. I have never seen it. If you get the feeling, or are directly told, on any regular basis that you are a racist, then maybe you do have some kind of issue, because this doesn't seem to be a problem in my eyes. In fact, the only true racists I have known have been white people, and the only local racism I have heard about, or witnessed, was committed by white people. (Except for this one time that some drunk people of middle eastern descent called my friend a "cracker", and they got into a fight )


[edit on 12-2-2007 by Shoktek]

Originally posted by riley
I used to be very vocal against racism directed towards anyone, but.. not when I'm being TOLD [either directly or indirectly] I am morally obligated to be because I'm white and therefore have to 'try harder' not to be racist. That would be enabling racism which I am against.

Well, one SHOULD be morally obligated but not because of one's colour but because we are all human. Period.

It's when the broad brush is used that it does indeed "enable racism" and that is good for no one.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic

Originally posted by truthseeka
Oh, really?

PLEASE show where this "claim" has been made, either explicitly or by strong inference.

No. I am not going to play that game. My opinion is that the claim has been made. You are free to agree or disagree with this opinion. If I go find and quote one of the posts from which I got this opinion, that will only pour gas on the fire. And I am not interested.

So, no.

You don't get off that easy.

The claim that someone said "ALL whites are racist because they're white" is WAY too strong for you to wave off as your opinion. You've already added gas with this loaded statement. Unless you back that up, I will have to dismiss that statement as the lie that it truly is. I don't care what most of the white posters on this thread think; I am STRONGLY against lies like this. (that all whites are racist because they're white)