One Third Of The Holocaust:More Compelling Evidence It Never Happened

Originally posted by Quackmaster
Reading this entire thread has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. You are arguing about how many millions make somehting bad in terms of innocent death. The dimmest of the dim know that the holocaust happened, christ what would happen if people started turning round and saying 9/11 - only 3000 died, thats not too bad... it would cause outrage.

Not every fact about the holocaust is true, big chuffing deal! Not every fact stated about 9/11, WWI, WWII, Vietnam etc etc etc is true - they still happened and represent without argument or discussion some of the most disturbing and horrific achievements of man kind.

You meet some people on these forums who are just made wrong.

so leave this site, believe everything you hear, and never look for the truth, good day.

peace.

mmmm, how do I talk to the people here that I repsect and believe then? Or continue discussions on topics that dont attract some of the less desirables?

I am not in the habit of running away everytime someone says they dont like what I say, and surely your not suggesting you should only be interested in these forums if you agree with everything and nothing offends you in open debate? I am assuming everyone here is big enough to handle an opinion when it is directed with a little force to illustrate its importance to the author?

yes pavil, that's about it. I said in my first post what my belief is. They weren't 'death camps' - that's a silly, melodramatic name for them. This is real life we're talking about, not a Hollywood screenplay. They were prison and labour camps, in which those who were identified as enemies of the state were kept. At various times, particularly towards the end of the war when Germany was losing and her supply lines were cut, they suffered typhoid epidemics in which thousands of malnourished prisoners died. This is a terrible event, but has been grossly exaggerated by the allies and then some historians, for a number of reasons.
The fact is that there is not one solid piece of evidence to support the gas chamber / 11 million claim. Disbelieving it therefore seems the only rational thing to do.

Originally posted by kenochi
Some facts...

no original Nazi gas chambers were ever found. The gas chambers shown to tourists at Auschwitz and other camps are reconstructions built after the war by the Russians and Poles.

You do realize that this has already come up in this thread, right?

The use of homocidal gas chambers at nazi death camps has been confirmed. There were nazis who admited to it after capture. There were nazis who wrote about it in their diaries prior to capture. THere were prisoners who witnessed it (but I guess they don't count because they're 'eviiil jooos' ), there is also documentary and forensic evidence that the chambers were used to kill people.

So please don't come here with that worn out nazi-trump of 'there were no gas chambers'.

Unfortunately they are of crematoria, not gas chambers. Simply taking a blueprint of a different kind of room and labelling it with the words 'gas chamber' doesn't mean that it was one

So even though the nazis had blueprints of chambers that were for the holding of human beings and the venting of toxic gas, AND they were directly connected to the camp morques and associated with mass cremation ovens, thats not a 'blueprint'.

kenochi
They weren't 'death camps' - that's a silly, melodramatic name for them

They were specifically set up to exterminate human beings, they most certainly were death camps. There were some concentration camps that weren't necessarily death camps, rather they had death camps associated with them. Not all concentration camps are death camps. The British put the Boers into Concentration Camps during the Boer war, 6 million Boers didn't die because of it.
The Nazis created those camps to put jews and other undesirables into them in the first place. Not criminals, not POWs, not resistors, but jews and 'sub-humans'. Then they started the attempt to exterminate them. The destruction of the semitic people and culture from germany to make it more Aryan and less restricted and more powerful was the core of Nazi ideology and the ariosophy on which it was based.

tom goose
was it really because Hitler was a madman?

A person who systematically tried to exterminate another race is by definition a madman. Hitler wasn't a raving lunatic, clearly. He was rather brilliant. He went from a lowly common man to become the leader of all of germany. Germany went from a defeated and humiliated and disarmed and ruined country in the midst of perhaps its greatest economic catastrophe, and become one of the supreme powers of europe and the world under him.

He also hated jews and non-germans to the point that he tried to exterminate them as a people.
So he wasn't a jibbering lunatic, but he was definitely a madman

the holocaust did happen, but like 9-11, was it an inside job?

Its utterly preposterous to suggest that the jews carried out the holocaust under the noses of the nazis. Its absurd to even suggest that the jews went along with it, to 'get israel'. If the germans hadn't been defeated, and they were barely defeated, then the jews in germany would be extinct.

Originally posted by kenochi
This is real life we're talking about, not a Hollywood screenplay.

What's your opinion on "Der ewige Jude" ?

Originally posted by kenochi
This is a terrible event, but has been grossly exaggerated by the allies and then some historians, for a number of reasons.

And these reasons are ?

Originally posted by kenochi
The fact is that there is not one solid piece of evidence to support the gas chamber / 11 million claim.

So the Nazis did not target any particular group of people ?

Not the claimed 6 million Jews ?

Or the claimed 5 million non Jews?

Only.......

Originally posted by kenochi
those who were identified as enemies of the state

under what criteria were they identified ??

regards

beagle

pip pip !!


PS @ Trout, "my old froooty" !!!!!! (in a Denis Cooper from "Goodness Gracious Me" voice)

Originally posted by Nygdan

tom goose
was it really because Hitler was a madman?

A person who systematically tried to exterminate another race is by definition a madman. Hitler wasn't a raving lunatic, clearly. He was rather brilliant. He went from a lowly common man to become the leader of all of germany. Germany went from a defeated and humiliated and disarmed and ruined country in the midst of perhaps its greatest economic catastrophe, and become one of the supreme powers of europe and the world under him.

He also hated jews and non-germans to the point that he tried to exterminate them as a people.
So he wasn't a jibbering lunatic, but he was definitely a madman

the holocaust did happen, but like 9-11, was it an inside job?

Its utterly preposterous to suggest that the jews carried out the holocaust under the noses of the nazis. Its absurd to even suggest that the jews went along with it, to 'get israel'. If the germans hadn't been defeated, and they were barely defeated, then the jews in germany would be extinct.

preposterous eh? well obviously you arn't thinking like an elitest. Someone should put me in charge of the NWO, ill have you all rounded up in no time at all.
why was Brown Brothers Harriman bank, supporting Hitler?

After the seizures in late 1942 of five U.S. enterprises he managed on behalf of Nazi industrialist Fritz Thyssen, U.S. government documents reveal that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, failed to divest himself of more than a dozen "enemy national" relationships that continued until as late as 1951.[1]

Furthermore, the records show that Bush and his colleagues routinely attempted to conceal their activities from government investigators.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

wiki won't say too much about it, but there are plenty of other places to look if you're interested.

but if you look into brown brothers harriman you will find a well imbedded american politician, that helped aid Hitler with his banking interests. In fact if you look at the roster of partners at Brown Brothers Harriman, you will find that it is made almost entirely of Skull and Bones members. So why are All-American elitests helping hitler? and you better have good answer for this, so far youv'e done nothing but sway back and forth avoiding every direct question.

William Averell Harriman (November 15, 1891 – July 26, 1986) was an American Democratic Party politician, businessman and diplomat. He was the son of railroad baron E. H. Harriman. He served as Secretary of Commerce under President Truman and later as Governor of New York.
en.wikipedia.org... [ex/]

Originally posted by kenochi
They weren't 'death camps' - that's a silly, melodramatic name for them.

They most assuredly were. There were six major and two minor "Extermination or Death Camps". They were specifically built , not to work people hard (Labor Camps) or to hold them as enemies of the state (concentration camps). There were plenty of those two types but only eight camps that were built to kill those brought to them.

I know this wont sway you but here is part of SS Lt. Kurt Gerstein's testimony to some of the events he witnessed at Belzec one of the Extermination camps:
en.wikipedia.org...

Unterscharführer Hackenholt was making great efforts to get the engine running. But it doesn't go. Captain Wirth comes up. I can see he is afraid because I am present at a disaster. Yes, I see it all and I wait. My stopwatch showed it all, 50 minutes, 70 minutes, and the diesel did not start. The people wait inside the gas chambers. In vain. They can be heard weeping, "like in the synagogue," says Professor Pfannenstiel, his eyes glued to a window in the wooden door. Furious, Captain Wirth lashes the Ukrainian assisting Hackenholt twelve, thirteen times, in the face. After 2 hours and 49 minutes—the stopwatch recorded it all—the diesel started. Up to that moment, the people shut up in those four crowded chambers were still alive, four times 750 persons in four times 45 cubic meters. Another 25 minutes elapsed. Many were already dead, that could be seen through the small window because an electric lamp inside lit up the chamber for a few moments. After 28 minutes, only a few were still alive. Finally, after 32 minutes, all were dead...Dentists hammered out gold teeth, bridges and crowns. In the midst of them stood Captain Wirth. He was in his element, and showing me a large can full of teeth, he said: "See for yourself the weight of that gold! It's only from yesterday and the day before. You can't imagine what we find every day—dollars, diamonds, gold. You'll see for yourself!"

Sorry for the long quote...... needed to be in it's entirety.

Pavil, your waisting yout time with Commandante Konachi - he will probably tell you that they weren't gassing people, they just accidently filled a room with Jews who were air intolerant and that the Germans attempts to resucitate them led to their gold fillings fallling out.

I think there are a few people on this thread with furry little caterpillars on their top lips.....

Originally posted by Quackmaster
I think there are a few people on this thread with furry little caterpillars on their top lips.....

Yes, I'd have to agree. They're the kind of people who leap on tiny apparent inconsistencies in the historical record, who assume that their (rather dubious) experts on the Holocaust are telling the truth, but that the rest of the world is somehow blinkered and who will not believe you when you lay out all the mountains of evidence that it happened.
The Holocaust has to be put in the correct historical context. Let's not forget the rules and laws that were set up in Germany after the Nazi powergrab that made the Holocaust - the vile and anti-semitic laws - made the German mindset that allowed the Holocaust to happen.

I am of a firm mindset that anyone who who believes the holocaust didn't happen needs to be socially excluded, moved into a walled ghetto, have their job taken away from them, be forced to wear a special insignia, be condemed as sub-human, rounded up in the middle of the night and forcibly evicted, rammed into a cattle car with no food or water with about 150 other people of the same mindset, transported overnight in the freezing winter to an undisclosed destination, forced to stand up immediately after the train stops and forced to walk several miles to a camp that is surrounded by 10 ft high fences topped with razor wire and surrounded by guard towers complete with machine gun toting guards, have a serial number tattooed on the back of their wrist, be fed on gruel made out of oat husks and dirty water, systematically watch people they know disappear to see the "doctor", be segregated from their wives and children and eventually be forced into a closed room where they are ordered to strip or face beign shot on the spot, and then moved into another chamber for a "shower".

The trouble with trying to discuss the holocaust is that for understandable reasons, people get emotional. This is natural, but they then unfortunately lose the ability to discuss rationally. The level of argument here is pretty poor. People have already resorted to name-calling and rather shallow attempts at accusations of racism. As I said before, the discussion is not whether or not the holocaust happened. Obviously something happened.
I am not saying nothing happened. Neither am I saying the Jews didn't suffer. Neither am I saying the Nazis were a bunch of terrific guys.
I am saying that anyone who is prepared to actually look at the available evidence, calmly and logically (and I mean the real evidence - the minutes of the Wannsee conference, the available blueprints, the IMT and NMT transcripts, the eyewitness statements, the confessions etc) will see that there is clearly something very wrong with the holocaust story, or more specifically, the gas chamber part of it. Obviously this does have a knock-on effect as if the the Nazis weren't using gas chambers it becomes impossible for so many to have died.
As I mentioned before, the actual historians, Raul Hilberg, Jean-Claude Pressac etc who are recognised as holocaust experts accept the fact that no gas chambers were found and that there is very little evidence for them. They simply work their theories around this.
Yet you lot do a bit of websurfing and think you can discuss the issue with certainty! Remarkable. As you are clearly the world experts on this topic, with some form of superior knowledge and evidence base compared to the leading historical authorities, perhaps you ought to consider publishing your views.
Maybe try doing a bit of real reading - I recommend Pressac's book on gas chambers or Hilberg's 'the destruction of the European Jews' as starting points.
But I guess its probably easier to read a page off Wiki and then abuse anyone who says something you don't agree with.
Congratulations gentlemen. Free minds the world over salute you.

Originally posted by tom goose
preposterous eh?

Yes, preposterous to suggest that evil jews created the camps and staffed them with ss officers, and diverted resources for building them, without the Nazis knowing it.

Furthermore, the records show that Bush and his colleagues routinely attempted to conceal their activities from government investigators.

I'm sorry but are is the Bush family european jews? Did the bush family 'do the holocaust' in order to get israel? Did the nazis not do the holocaust? Why is this relevant??

So why are All-American elitests helping hitler?

Why are greedy people making money, regardless of the moral implications?
Because they're greedy.

o far youv'e done nothing but sway back and forth avoiding every direct question.

Which questions have I failed to answer? And what does any of this have to do with the holocaust having happened or not?

Originally posted by kenochi
This is natural, but they then unfortunately lose the ability to discuss rationally

Rather it is the holocaust deniers who are not discussing or researching this thing rationally. You haven't presented any evidence that hte holocaust didn't happen. You've ignored the evidence for the holcaust, and instead 'scoffed' at people that became emotional about it.

I am not saying nothing happened.

You've said that there was no plan to exterminate the jews and others.
You've said that there were no gas chambers.
You've said that there were no death camps.

So what happened if not that? A bunch of evil anti-german rebels were properly arrested, and just happened to die in jail?

As I mentioned before, the actual historians, Raul Hilberg, Jean-Claude Pressac etc who are recognised as holocaust experts accept the fact that no gas chambers were found and that there is very little evidence for them.

Hilberg and Pressac DO recognize that there were homocidal gas chambers, and Hilberg's early calculations showed that 5 million jews died in the holocaust. www1.yadvashem.org...
And Pressac clearly thinks that there is evidence for the chambers beyond 'sketchy testimony':
www.nizkor.org...

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by tom goose
preposterous eh?

Yes, preposterous to suggest that evil jews created the camps and staffed them with ss officers, and diverted resources for building them, without the Nazis knowing it.

Furthermore, the records show that Bush and his colleagues routinely attempted to conceal their activities from government investigators.

I'm sorry but are is the Bush family european jews? Did the bush family 'do the holocaust' in order to get israel? Did the nazis not do the holocaust? Why is this relevant??

So why are All-American elitests helping hitler?

Why are greedy people making money, regardless of the moral implications?
Because they're greedy.

o far youv'e done nothing but sway back and forth avoiding every direct question.

Which questions have I failed to answer? And what does any of this have to do with the holocaust having happened or not?

why dont you admit that you have nothing, your whole post is without a single point adressing mine. you are spin artist, and coward that hides from questions.

bla bla bla, is all ive heard from you, no wonder the OP wont come back.

Im so mad

i waited all night for that answer.

NO SPIN NYGDEN: why did Skull and Bones aid the Nazi's and why have the jewish controled media kept quiet?

Be a Man Nygden, answer the question, and i might think you have some spine.

DONT BE IGNORANT.

Originally posted by tom goose
why did Skull and Bones aid the Nazi's

ITS IRRELEVANT.

and why have the jewish controled media kept quiet?

THe media isn't controlled by 'the jews'. The news doesn't make a big stink about prescott bush working for a financial company that worked on nazi linked accounts because no one cares.

We're talking about the evidences for the holocaust, there is a claim that it didn't kill around 6 million jews, and other claims that it was never intentional, that it was because of food shortages, that there were no gas chambers, etc.

Prescott Bush has NOTHING to do with any of that.

im going to have to ask you to leave the internet.

just disconnect and go

either you are the dumbest moderator out there, or the most IGNORANT

I never said the jewish control ALL the media, i asked why the media that is controlled by the jews has not touched this..... why am i even bothering, you know damb well what im implying and you are avioding it for your own reasons and short comings.

No one cares? when the day comes for you to meet your maker.... ask him if he cares.

The moment you mentioned the 'Jewish controlled' media, I stopped listening. Look, I'm a member of the media, and this is a line of total bull# that goes back a long way - it's a pernicious and evil myth that has been shot down again and again.
Oh and my grandfather was one of the first British soldiers to enter Bergen-Belsen. What he saw in there scarred him for the rest of his life - the total and utter disregard the Nazis had for jews and anyone else they labelled as being surplus to requirements due to their filthy and perverted ideas.
You're asking Nygdan to go away? Ha. Get out of our sight.

Originally posted by Darkmind
The moment you mentioned the 'Jewish controlled' media, I stopped listening. Look, I'm a member of the media, and this is a line of total bull# that goes back a long way - it's a pernicious and evil myth that has been shot down again and again.
Oh and my grandfather was one of the first British soldiers to enter Bergen-Belsen. What he saw in there scarred him for the rest of his life - the total and utter disregard the Nazis had for jews and anyone else they labelled as being surplus to requirements due to their filthy and perverted ideas.
You're asking Nygdan to go away? Ha. Get out of our sight.

Im not in your sight, if i was you wouldn't have said that. if you said "our site", i would probably have listened, this place is starting to seem like the mob.

All the info you need to answer your "jewish controled media" rant has already been posted prior to this.

"Filthy and perverted Idea's" ??? I hope you dont live in north america, cause that is all this bloody place is. filthy and perverted..... man, i couldn't have said it better. funny how things like "operation paperclip" made sure some of those perverted ideas did not go to waste.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by tom goose]

I didn't say that Hilberg and Pressac denied the existence of gas chambers. I said that even they accept that evidence for them is virtually non-existent. They just work their ideas around this.
People seem to be having trouble reading what I'm writing without inventing extra stuff that I didn't actually say.
Anyone objective reading this thread will see who is trying to
be logical and present rational arguments and who is arguing with hysteria and irrational hatred.

No offence, but are you lot a bunch of kids?

Originally posted by Truth4hire
Nygdan, I am actually taking notes as this plays. A transcript does not seem to exist at first Google. Trust me, you will need to see this if the topic interests you and yes I will post my personal findings (apart from that I am in awe) in a complete form within 24 hours. I would love to find a transcript, still looking while I´m listening to the narration. And typing this.

Stress.

The problem with documentaries is anyone can make one. I could find a subject I am really interested in and make a documentary myself with just a video camera and my findings or "findings." Doesn't mean I'd be correct. I don't get how you can say the holocaust didn't happen when there is SO much evidence that shows us other wise including witness testimony from people like Elie Wiesel. Now I could in some way see where for example Iran's president is coming from on his opinion but to deny it totally happened is in my opinion absurb.