One Third Of The Holocaust:More Compelling Evidence It Never Happened

Originally posted by SportyMB

Originally posted by lee anoma
I was going by the video.

I don't really have the time to watch the video and probably never will. But I understand the point you are trying to stress now, thanks for clearing that up. In your original post you said:

This basically provides strong evidence that Holocaust did not happen as such. Contains parts from Lanzmann´s Shoa, which I have seen as well. (Yes all of it)

Do you believe the Holocaust took place or not?

Thanks,

WHU..?

Are you referring to me?
I never wrote that.

Yes there was a holocaust if you want my opinion, however you are mistaken if you think I wrote that.



[edit on 2-2-2007 by lee anoma]

[edit on 2-2-2007 by lee anoma]

Remember, there are guards and other non-imprisoned workers. They were the ones using the swimming pools and the libraries.

Anyway I believe Auschwitz was the work camp---the extermination camp was nearby.

Quibbling about the specific mechanism of the imprisonment, enslavement, and eventual extermination is pointless.

The question is "why were there any?"

Enemies of the Nazi regime---and many like all Jews were declared enemies without doing anything---were exterminated.

Whether by bullet, gas, starvation or disease, enslavement and extermination were intended to be their fate. There was no way to be released, no "sentence" to be completed. No POW prisoner swap. No nothing but slavery and death, with the sick taunting of "Arbeit Macht Frei" (work will make you free) which of course was a total lie. The SS probably thought it was hilarious.

That was the intent, and it is genocide. Full stop.

lee anoma, my mistake I confused you for the OP...I edited my last post to show that Truth4hire wrote it.

Later,

This place never changes...Like McDonald's , everyones a manager....The 'fact' that most European countries allow no questioning of what was a historical event is a major red flag. That can't be denied. Although, that won't stop the committed. In a few short years the veil will be lifted on this issue and the hyping and deception behind the Holocaust Industry will reek globally with a greater stench than the bodies who were burned in those camps.

I would like to ask the masses of ATS, if you read reports and have seen interviews that the Holocaust happened. I have read them, I have seen interviews, I know it did happen. This is not a "conspiracy". If you ask any German, it did happen. Hitler was real, death camps were real. Hitler had a personal agenda to kill all homosexuals, jews, and anyone who opposed him. Mussalini also had the same agenda. It was a personal and powerful war. Read Mein Kampf or the Third Reich. Hitler says it all himself!

I am amazed that after 60 years this issue is still present.

What part of ZIONIST PROPAGANDA doesn't anyone understand?

As for any type of 'proof', all anyone has to do is stop being lazy, waiting for someone to dish out info on a message board. Get off you A$$ go to a library and take out books by JEWISH...(NOT ZIONIST) authors who have continually declared that:

1). 6 million is figurative and religiously symbolic, not an actual number.
1919....6 million jews

2). The Jewish population of Europe at the time and the Jewish population after the Holocaust are questionable if in fact 6 million JEWS dies.

3). Zionists financially contributed to the National Socialist Party.

4). Zionist leaders had MANY meetings with Hitler to discuss the removal of the Jewish peoples from Germany.

5). The Jews in 1948, finally got their own 'homeland'.

6). After WWII, (coincidental with #5 above) Chaim Weizmann submitted a memorandum on behalf of the Zionist Jewish Agency for Germany to pay reparations to the Jews, so that the financial stability of Zionist Israel could be created. here

Pick up a book people....Raul Hilberg, Norman Finkelstein, etc.

Zionists plotted to gain homeland, they got it...they needed to fund it, they got that too. It really isn't hard to see.

One last comment......Because I think Zionism is wrong does not mean I am anti-semitic. Jews and Zionists are NOT one in the same.

sky are you kidding me? There were no talks between hitler and jewish leaders about why the jews were being kicked out of Germany. Yes Hitler did use jews to control Jews but there were not negociations or anything like that.

You honestly believe the entire holocaust was a attempt to take land?????? The death of millions or people just to get land.

The Germans used Zionism to promote anti-semitism.

What you are talking about looks like you are buy into the very same propoganda Hitler used in Germany. Ever heard of the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion

This was the so called proof the Jews are trying to take over the world and are in bed withthe socialist just liek you described.

Originally posted by mbkennel

Remember, there are guards and other non-imprisoned workers. They were the ones using the swimming pools and the libraries.

Anyway I believe Auschwitz was the work camp---the extermination camp was nearby.

There were 3 seperate camps in Auschwitz. Aushwitz I which was a concentration camp, Auschwitz II Birkenau which was the one everyone thinks of and was the death camp and labor camp. There was also Auschwitz III which was closely related to IG Farben and was the least deadly of the 3. IG Farben wanted the workers but was tired of the Nazi's killing all the jews and making IG buy new slaves. I met a survivors form Auschwitz III alot of stories and memories.

Originally posted by sky1
What part of ZIONIST PROPAGANDA doesn't anyone understand?

What part of KILLING ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE OR SIX MILLION PEOPLE, yes PEOPLE, is in NO WAY JUSTIFIABLE don't you understand?

It's one of the most horrific, barbaric, sadistic and largest genocides in recent history.

Zionist propaganda does have much influence on today's world politics but claiming that the Holocaust is yet another propaganda peace is ignorantly disgusting.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Mdv2]

Comments after browsing 67 comments:

Byrd: If you watch David Cole you see that it is an actual pool (footage shows diving blocks)

About the numbers I agree that even if it is 4 or even one million and not six million, even if it were one individual it would have been too many, but Nygdan, you say that 1/3 of the holocaust happened (2 million) and that is what this is about that is not so. The author covers three camps, counting for a third of the total holocaust.

Pool,Theatre, Choir watch David C.

My prepared notes (some)

OK. Let´s start by asking why there is an immediate response calling this film nazi propaganda?

Why is any article or entity which challenges the Holocaust labelled as such? Does the author of this film hate Jews? I have no idea. Do I hate Jews? Certainly not. Am I a nazi? No, I am an atheist-libertarian. I do not believe in fascism, in fact I wish for as little government possible with free world trade.

Moving on. The identity of the maker of this film is unknown. The film is about Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec mainly, Auschwitz is only briefly mentioned. (That´s why the film is called One Third Of The Holocaust; It pertains to the three camps which made up 1/3 of the Holocaust).

I find the film interesting, but would like to change the word "evidence" in the subject of this thread to "indications" just to make sure that there is no confusion over what this really is. I think "evidence" should be information that is forensic, checked by reliable scientific sources and irrefutable. I will give you an example here, even though I did no background check on the information. Video 3m:15s Treblinka was not a Death Camp

I just inserted the above to make a point. Scientists doing a thorough study, that I consider evidence.

Anything circumstantial like hear-say and statements that start with "if you think about it..." are not or should not be called evidence, I would prefer "indications". So if a moderator can please change "Evidence" into "Indications" I would be grateful, as I no longer am able to change the subject.

After watching this I have some mixed feelings:

o The narrator annoys. This is my personal opinion. Not only has he a slow and annoying voice, but he is trying to be a wise guy at times, which seems uncalled for.
o OTOH some (even most) of the indications presented are good enough to reproduce and discuss

Looking for a transcript I have found a several sites which host the entire film cut up into thirty pieces:

onethirdoftheholocaust.com
Ziopedia (Yes, the domain name is a cheap reference to Zionism I know)

Both sites have the same content, and quality is a little better than Google video.

Some brief comments, I have not seen the last hour or so yet. (Well hello I stayed up until 04:00am anyway and had to go to work today as some of us do).

Chapter one - Introduction
The interesting part in this section I found to be that the author uses the Jewish Historian books to point out several inconsistencies. So please stop yelling 6 million because it becomes quite clear that that number is clearly revised, even by the Jewish community. You know, the first mention of 6 million was as early as 1943? See Chapter 9!

Just what is the basis for this familiar figure?

Even before the end of the Second World War in Europe, that is, before any careful or detailed investigation was possible, the Six Million figure was already in wide circulation. For example, in essays published in late 1944 and early 1945, the prominent Soviet-Jewish writer Ilya Ehrenburg repeatedly told his many readers that "the Germans" had killed six million Jews. In an article published in March 1945, for instance, in the English-language London weekly, Soviet War News, he wrote: "The world now knows that Germany has killed six million Jews."

Source

Bit early isn´t it?

Chapter 2: Water Well
The point of the water well being to close to the burial grounds which would have contaminated the well. Not very convincing. If the Germans are systematically killing their prisoners, contamination would not have mattered that much I reason. They could have provided water from another source to the work force, or could have de-contaminated the water with Chlorine.

Chapter 3: Haircut
The argument that you would not shave prisoners if you are going to kill them anyway. This is a point. Not THAT much hair was needed in the war effort (human hair was used in breathing devices in submarines) so this would be an indication..

Chapter 4: Engine Exhaust
About the ability to kill humans with Diesel fumes. I have not researched, but appearantly it is very hard if not impossible to gas humans with Diesel fumes.

Chapter 5: Nuremberg Excerpts
I would need to see the entire transcripts of the trial to make a sensible comment

Chapter 6: Gassing Building
This is rather an interesting section, because if you are to systematically going to use gas to kill humans you would expect a hermetically sealed area with double doors. Well not present. Neither in Auschwitz as a sideline if you watch David Cole.

7 & 8 no comment. Testimony cannot be trusted either way, only if there is supporting forensic evidence I will listen.

Chapter 9: Reader's Digest
As mentioned before, is februari 1943 not a bit early to start spreading the 6 million figure?
The (...) killings have not even begun yet.

Chapter 10: Experiments
The horror. I think some of these might have actually happened. I think the Nazi´s were capable and had motives to do so. However some of the claims seem grossly exagerrated as you will see. I would accept only experiments if they were of logical use to the Nazis. e.g. human body endurance tests to learn the limits which would help to fight the war more efficiently. Genetical experiments to learn more about race, creating twins etc.


Chapter 11, 12 & 13: Burial spaces
Basically the numbers do not add up if you try to place the claimed number of casualties in the ground, even six deep. As this can be mathematically proven, I would call this a strong indication. The link earlier in this post supports this.


More later, I´m out of space

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Truth4hire]

Originally posted by Quicksilver
sky are you kidding me? There were no talks between hitler and jewish leaders about why the jews were being kicked out of Germany. Yes Hitler did use jews to control Jews but there were not negociations or anything like that.

You honestly believe the entire holocaust was a attempt to take land?????? The death of millions or people just to get land.

The Germans used Zionism to promote anti-semitism.

What you are talking about looks like you are buy into the very same propoganda Hitler used in Germany. Ever heard of the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion

This was the so called proof the Jews are trying to take over the world and are in bed withthe socialist just liek you described.

This subject is not really up for debate or personal opinion. It is a matter of factual evidence. Not only has it been documented by Jewish historians, but anyone who lived in Germany under the leadership of Adolf Hitler will tell you that he did, in fact, meet with Zionist leaders on MANY occasions as well as accept very large contributions from them.

Zionism, is in fact more racist than any other entity you could possibly come up with, including 'NAZI' Germany. Again, Zionists and Jews are not one in the same.

I feel the burden of proof lies with those who claim the numbers of deaths. I'm not saying that a large number of deaths did not occur in prison camps due to disease, hunger, and neglect, but the only factual evidence supporting the 6 million exterminated claim are the tortured witnesses of the Nuremberg Trials. Please, if you can locate the FACTUAL EVIDENCE of the mass extermination of 6 million JEWS (not merely verbal claims of people) then post it.

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is an absurd attempt at polluting the minds of people. It is BS and anyone with an inkling of intelligent thought knows this is mere lies to cause those with little or no ability to think for themselves to believe that all Jews are Zionists.

Again, all you have to do is go to the library and pick up some books written by JEWISH historians. It really isn't hard.

Originally posted by Mdv2
Zionist propaganda does have much influence on today's world politics but claiming that the Holocaust is yet another propaganda peace is ignorantly disgusting.

You are right. Specifically it influences Americans.

Read Mearsheimer and Walt

Mearsheimer and Walt argue that "No lobby has managed to divert U.S. foreign policy as far from what the American national interest would otherwise suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that U.S. and Israeli interests are essentially identical".[2] According to Mearsheimer and Walt, the Lobby has a "stranglehold on the U.S. Congress," "significant leverage over the Executive branch," and the ability to make sure that the "Lobby’s perspective on Israel is widely reflected in the mainstream media." They also claim that the Lobby jeopardizes the United States' national security, and forces the United States to do the "fighting, dying, rebuilding, and paying" for Israel.[1] They accuse the Lobby of "controlling debate" and they decry what they call misuse of "the charge of anti-Semitism" as well as a "campaign to eliminate criticism of Israel from college campuses" (see Campus Watch and U.S. Congress Bill H.R. 509).

/off topic

Originally posted by Il Papa
The poor Nazis have been accused of making soap, lampshades and allsorts from the dead. The authenticity of all this is still debated.

Some of the soap and lampshades are in museums. There are plenty of pictures in the history books. Those are real things. As far as I kow the authenticity is not debated at all. At least not seriously .

Originally posted by sky1
The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is an absurd attempt at polluting the minds of people. It is BS and anyone with an inkling of intelligent thought knows this is mere lies to cause those with little or no ability to think for themselves to believe that all Jews are Zionists.

Again, all you have to do is go to the library and pick up some books written by JEWISH historians. It really isn't hard.

sky1, can you please give us some links or at least provide a pointer to the literature you mention?

Thanks in advance

Originally posted by Mdv2

Originally posted by sky1
What part of ZIONIST PROPAGANDA doesn't anyone understand?

What part of KILLING ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE OR SIX MILLION PEOPLE, yes PEOPLE, is in NO WAY JUSTIFIABLE don't you understand?

It's one of the most horrific, barbaric, sadistic and largest genocides in recent history.

Zionist propaganda does have much influence on today's world politics but claiming that the Holocaust is yet another propaganda peace is ignorantly disgusting.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Mdv2]

I never said it was justifiable. Please don't put words in my mouth.

What I find to be ignorantly disgusting is the fact that so many people rely on whatever textbook their 3rd grade teacher read from.

It was WAR, people died, people starved, people had diseases.


While German men were off fighting the jobs they had as civilians still needed to be done, materials for WAR needed to be created, hence the term LABOR camps.

There were enemies of the state, hence the term PRISON camps. Whether or not we agree with who should be deemed an enemy of the state is completely irrelevant.

It does not matter what anyone THINKS, what matters is the reality of what OCCURRED. The Zionists wanted the Jews out, the German leadership wanted the Jews out. They BOTH colluded to get this done. FACT.


Truth4Hire, I did in my previous post, just scroll up a few

I believe I will leave this as my last post on this particular thread. It is a topic that is offensive to many. It is not my intent to offend anyone and I sincerely apologize if I have done so. I feel it is the duty of every human being to do whatever they can to investigate the truth in all matters.

The deaths of everyone in WWII as well as any other genocide ( Rwanda, Circassians, Armenian, etc) is a great and tragic loss, I would just like everyone to be aware that what we are shown or taught is not always correct.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by sky1]

Well first I have to say that even if it was only 4 million, 2 million, or 100,000 that would not make it any better or any less of a Holocaust.

Secondly. I had no idea in some places you can be arrested for denying the Holocaust? Can someone please tell me more about this?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Il Papa
The poor Nazis have been accused of making soap, lampshades and allsorts from the dead. The authenticity of all this is still debated.

Some of the soap and lampshades are in museums. There are plenty of pictures in the history books. Those are real things. As far as I kow the authenticity is not debated at all. At least not seriously .

Eh, no.

The soap story at least is urban legend, debunked by Yad Vashem et al:

In April 1990, professor Yehuda Bauer of Israel's Hebrew University, regarded as a leading Holocaust historian, as well as Shmuel Krakowski, archives director of Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, confirmed that the human soap story is not true. Camp inmates "were prepared to believe any horror stories about their persecutors," Bauer said. At the same time, though, he had the chutzpah to blame the legend on "the Nazis."

Bill Hutman, "Nazis never made human-fat soap," The Jerusalem Post - International Edition, week ending May 5, 1990; "Holocaust Expert Rejects Charge That Nazis Made Soap From Jews," Northern California Jewish Bulletin, April 27, 1990. (JTA dispatch from Tel Aviv.) Facsimile in: Christian News, May 21, 1990, p. 19; "A Holocaust Belief Cleared Up," Chicago Tribune, April 25, 1990. Facsimile in: Ganpac Brief, June 1990, p. 8.

So, any soap you see in the Holocaust museums is not made from human remains, nor did anyone make soap from human remains during WWII.

The whole entire video is good old fashion nazi’esq propaganda that would make Hitler himself smile.

This video is about picking apart eyewitness testimony and first hand accounts from survivors and other eyewitnesses. The conclusions are that because eyewitnesses have conflicting testimony or they say things that seemingly cannot be proven that they are lying. This is a ridiculous conclusion and it is entirely wrong.

I know we have a belief that eyewitness testimony is never inaccurate but the truth is the opposite. Eyewitness testimony rarely gets “everything” right. Lets take a bank robbery as an example. Every witness inside the bank can give contradicting stories brecause the human mind does not work like a video camera. We each see things from our own perspective and we do get details wrong, but that doesn’t mean the robbery did not happen. That would be ridiculous right? Of course, however that is what is happening with the Holocaust right now.

The other part of this movie wants to argue numbers. Was it 6 million Jews killed? 5.1 million? 4 Million? 2 Million? They don’t know, but the fact that people had trouble documenting the exact number back in 1946 after the world had been destroyed by the Nazi’s war seems to trouble the video makers. They cannot seem to grasp the problem that most people in this time period do not have accurate birth certificates or identification. If they do have identification it is nothing more than a piece of paper and most of these documents were lost in fires, stole and destroyed by the Nazi’s or lost in the destruction of war. When someone dies during this time period (early 1900’s) they are lost to history. There is no chance of finding some people during this time period. No way of proving whether a single person was ever alive or not. They just disappeared off the face of the earth like they were never alive.

Imagine the monumental problem of trying to identify millions of dead, decayed bodies when you don’t know where they came from or who they are. Nah, the filmmakers don’t want to talk about that because it is too logical and it goes against their overall argument. They want to play the numbers game. Forget the millions of lives that were ruined because of this war. Forget about how innocent people were pulled from their homes, separated from their families, forced to suffer in camps, raped, humiliated, degraded, tortured, and killed. Forget all those human stories because it is a numbers game.

Actually forget all these minor details because here is the most telling part of the video:

46 minutes into the video: Rudolf Hess was at one time the second in command of Nazi Germany, just under Adolph Hitler. In 1941 Hess did something very crazy. In a desperate attempt to keep Western Europe from being plunged into war he piloted a plane by himself to England in an attempt to go around Winston Churchill and make contact with England’s peace factions. When the plane was flying over England he got out of the pilots seat, put on a parachute for the first time in his life, and jumped out of the plane. Spraining his ankle upon landing in a field, he was caught and promptly arrested. After the war, the English sent him to Nuremberg to be tried as a major war criminal. He was sentenced to life in prison and spent the next 40-year in a strangely cruel environment of standout prison wear. Guards were instructed to never call him by his actual name. He was never allowed to hug or touch his son ever again. Nor was he ever allowed a single moment alone with him. Hess died at 92 years old after 40 years in that environment.

WOW! Forget the propaganda that Hess was on some “peace” mission, which wasn’t the truth. Look at the last few lines. The film makers seem to want us to believe that Hess is a patriot and that we should express sympathy for him. Yeah, lets all get together and have a big pity party for Rudolf Hess. Okay, ready? Awwwwww. Poor old Rudolf Hess having to stay in that that “strangely cruel environment”. It was so very unfair. I actually laughed out loud at that part of the video. Yep, I lol’ed. At that point in the video I got the feel of what this video was really all about.

The conclusion: When Hitler writes Mein Kampf it is heavily influenced by another book called, “The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind” written in 1895 which theorizes that propaganda is a technique that can be used to control crowds. This is something that Hitler picks up and uses to build and run the Nazi empire. It is also a concept, which is still in use by Nazi’s to this day in videos like this one. And maybe the saddest part of the story is that the concept still works. People fall for it and some people want to fall for it.

Originally posted by lizziex3
I had no idea in some places you can be arrested for denying the Holocaust? Can someone please tell me more about this?

Holocaust denial is illegal in a number of European countries: Austria (article 3h Verbotsgesetz 1947), Belgium (Belgian Negationism Law), the Czech Republic under section 261, France (Loi Gayssot), Germany (§ 130 (3) of the penal code) also the Auschwitzlüge law section 185, Lithuania, The Netherlands under articles 137c and 137e, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain and Switzerland (article 261bis of the Penal Code). In addition, under Law 5710-1950 it is also illegal in Israel. Italy enacted a law against racial and sexual discrimination on January 25th 2007 source. Even if it is commonly referred as the "Holocaust law" in the public debate, it does not actually contain direct references to the Holocaust and does not explicitly address its denial.

Source:Wikipedia

More recently:

Germany, current holder of the EU's rotating presidency, will table new legislation to outlaw "racism and xenophobia" this spring. Included in the draft EU directive are plans to outlaw Holocaust denial, creating an offence that does not exist in British law. But the proposals, seen by The Daily Telegraph, go much further and would criminalise those who question the extent of war crimes that have taken place in the past 20 years. The legislation will trigger a major row across Europe over free speech and academic freedom.

British Telegraph, some 20 hours ago

More radically:

If a Jewish Holocaust historian admits (as some have done) that some of the gas chambers shown to tourists and proclaimed to be authentic, are in fact not, having been built after the war, he will have no problem. But if David Irving or Germar Rudolf does the same they are called “Holocaust Deniers” and face up to 20 years in prison.

In short, “Holocaust Denial” laws are draconian, heresy-type laws that can applied to anyone who simply doesn’t intellectually agree with an amorphous, non-specific Holocaustography. It is used as a political weapon to defend an historical opinion that has become like a religious dogma.

Holocaust Denial, like the charge of heresy, can be construed out of just about anything, just as “heresy” was punishable for hundreds of years for simply questioning with reason and scientific inquiry whether the sun actually revolved around the earth.

Three decent and intelligent scholars I know in Europe are now facing years in prison for simply challenging some of the Jewish promoted historical interpretations of the Second World War and the Holocaust. I know and respect them all. They are David Irving, Ernst Zundel, and Germar Rudolf. In other words, they face imprisonment for intelligently voicing an opinion about a period of history over 60 years old.

Source: David Duke (white supremacist)


Fixed ex and smilies

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Truth4hire]

Originally posted by zerotime
The whole entire video is good old fashion nazi’esq propaganda that would make Hitler himself smile.

Although I like your post, you fail to see the point.

Anyone questioning history as it happened should not be called or be classified as a Nazi. Since when is thinking for yourself a crime?

Are the scientists questioning the Holocaust also Nazi´s?

These are Nazis today, zerotime.

Anyone questioning the history of the Holocaust does not neccessarily classify as or sympathize with Nazi´s, even though some would like us to believe otherwise. (See above)

Like Joseph Goebbels, Hess was privately distressed by the war with Britain. According to William L. Shirer, author of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Hess may have hoped to score a stunning diplomatic victory by sealing a peace between the Reich and Britain. Hess at the time flew to Britain in May 1941 to meet the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon, parachuting from his Messerschmitt Bf 110 over Renfrewshire on May 10 and landing (though breaking his ankle) at Floors Farm near Eaglesham, just south of Glasgow. He was quickly arrested, although the details of how this happened are somewhat unclear and remain controversial, and he was taken to the Maryhill army barracks and held captive as a prisoner of war. In one newsreel clip, farmer David McLean claims to have arrested Rudolf Hess with his pitchfork.

Source: Wikipedia (Good enough?)

Added piece about Hess.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Truth4hire]