New Hampshire man, Ed Brown, refuses to pay federal taxes - willing to fight for it.

Originally posted by Shadowflux

I also have always found it extremely suspicious that they feel the need to take my money before I can even cash my check.

The income tax wasnt always "withheld" likeit is now. They started this in 1943. Before then every working American knew just how much the government extorted from them because we all had to write that check over every year.

This is where the notion of: "How much did you pay this year?", "Nothing! I got $500!" comes from. The government had buried our taxation out of sight so people have no idea how much money is being stolen and even less of an idea of how this money is being spent.

I think if we got rid of withholding you'd see an awful lot of Ed Browns out there.

I dont think the British used withholding on our forefathers. Maybe thats why so many of them got so mad. Now we're gleefully ignorant and do whatever the government tells us to.

Government is obviously the addict here and all we do is enable it to keep using. To keep using its money and power (our money and power) to do stupid things over and over and over.

Its time we cut this deadbeat off of the family money.

that sounds like a grand plan...our goverment is almost like a heroin addict, but in this case...INCOME TAXES...MUAhahahahahaha

MBkernel. If it is an Indirect tax, why is it listed and treated as a direct tax by the IRS and is not under the rule of apportionment?

Do I need to show you all the references that have been stating Income Tax as their main example of a DIRECT tax?

What I am saying is that income tax may be legal if all other arguements fail, but that DOES NOT change the fact they are misissuing it as a direct tax as well.

If taxing income is legal, it should be treated as an indirect tax, which it currently is not. Not by the IRS especially since they have it listed as their prime example for Direct tax.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by grimreaper797]

I am glad there are so many financial and tax experts on ATS. Now I know where to come when I have financial questions. Unless everyone here is just talking out of their butts but I'm sure that is not happening. Nope, can't be happening on an Internet forum.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
this guy is crazy
he's trying to create a constitutional precedent even if he has to kill people for it

if you oppose the income tax, pay it and then organize and protest against it

This HAS been tried before and never can get off the ground. I hate to say this but maybe we need something like this to wake people up.

"MBkernel. If it is an Indirect tax, why is it listed and treated as a direct tax by the IRS and is not under the rule of apportionment?"

The court opinions contained in the previous link I quoted show that legally it is an indirect tax in the sense of the Constitution's distinction.

It is indirect in the sense that it is a tax on activity and not property, and not required to be apportioned among states's population.

The IRS's meaning of 'direct' may possibly be different and in a different context than the Constitutional issues. Anyway, the court system has final authority about the meaning of law and if it conflicts with an IRS document then the IRS document is incorrect.

Nevertheless, as the quoted legal FAQ says, courts are unanimous in upholding the legality of the income tax as currently practiced under the 16th Amendment.

And there is no linguistic trickery which will result otherwise; an administrative error by IRS isn't like some logic bomb which will result in absurd consequences.

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Can you imagine the reaction you would get from people if you told them you were borrowing money to pay off interest on the borrowed money, and if congress would just abolish the federal reserve bank, there would be no more interest charging? Imagine how people would feel.

I'll let you call up Beijing then and say we are going into default and collapse the dollar.

If we allow the global elitists to collapse the dollar we will decend into anarchy and a global depression, which they will fix by giving us each a mark, that they control, with which to buy and sell and US sovrienty will end. Freedom as we know it will be nothing but a memory.

If, we the American people, collapse the dollar we can break free of thier hold on us and remain free for a little while longer and the idea of a free America where our children can be free from oppression and tyranny will continue.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I think that we might all want to prepare for battle, as Ed Brown has.

The time is near.

58 days until Iran stops trading oil for US federal reserve notes.

teamliberty.net...

... the week of March 20-26, 2006 will be the beginning of the most significant political crisis the world has known since the Fall of the Iron Curtain in 1989, together with an economic and financial crisis of a scope comparable with that of 1929. This last week of March 2006 will be the turning-point of a number of critical developments, resulting in an acceleration of all the factors leading to a major crisis, disregard any American or Israeli military intervention against Iran.

LEAP/E2020's researchers and analysts thus identified 7 convergent crises that the American and Iranian decisions coming into effect during the last week of March 2006, will catalyse and turn into a total crisis, affecting the whole planet in the political, economic and financial fields, as well as in the military field most probably too:

1. Crisis of confidence in the Dollar
2. Crisis of US financial imbalances
3. Oil crisis
4. Crisis of the American leadership
5. Crisis of the Arabo-Muslim world
6. Global governance crisis
7. European governance crisis

www.europe2020.org...

Collapse of the petro dollar.







[edit on 23-1-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by Fliers Fan
However, the fact is that our federal taxes pay for many of the things we enjoy now such as our freedom - which you are enjoying right now as you post on the internet. You can thank your federal tax dollars for your freedom to be able to do that.

Holy crap! Are you serious? Can you supply a dollar amount for that freedom, please?

Money never buys freedom. Freedom is paid for by the the blood and bodies of patriots!
Freedom is so valuable even Bill Gates couldn't buy it.

You cheapen the lives of our troops with your words, sir.

Shame.

Six pages of intelligent discourse later and still no consensus as to what ‘income’ and ‘money’ are… (Some interesting debate though)

Without clearly defining the terms ‘income’ and ‘money’ (which is all this Ed dude is asking for, clearly defined terms) the rest of the conversation is rather moot, don’t you think?

Oh well…

Here’s another ‘must read’, although no one will as it is ‘hard’ and ‘boring’.

This is the U.S. Government Operation Manual for 2006 - 2007

www.gpoaccess.gov...

The whole thing is educational, but Pages 416 – 422 deal with the Federal Reserve System.

If you do absolutely Nothing else, at least glance at the table of contents to see who is part of the government, who is an agency of that government, and who are ‘Independent Establishments and Government Corporations’

Originally posted by torbjon
... who is part of the government, who is an agency of that government, and who are ‘Independent Establishments and Government Corporations’

Interesting

A who's who list of who exactly is a Department of the Government and who is an 'Independent Establishment or Government Corporation’.

www.gpoaccess.gov...

Originally posted by jbondo
I had heard about one senator that was upset because he couldn't afford 2 houses (mansions) with full servant staff! While the average American can’t even afford to buy a shack or pay rent and eat at the same time! How do they solve that? Oh! Raise the minimum wage! Of course it’s not coming out of their income; it’s screwing the small businessman! So they either go out of business, lay off people to afford the increase or make cuts to an already tight belt! So why be in business!? Oh but that $2 band aid put the finger in the dike long enough to shift attention elsewhere! We pad these gov officials’ pockets and they live the high life.

I think they should revert to the system whereby luxury goods and services are taxed at a higher rate and then have no federal tax. Then it would be a choice to lay out the money and maybe then the rich would have to pay out a little.

I agree with some of your post, there could be a more equitable way to tax the American people that took some of the load off of the lower and middle classes.

I would favor a high sales tax .. or a federal sales tax at a pretty significant level ... the more you bought the more you paid and no need to file your taxes every year. If you wanted to cut down on your tax liability you would just buy less. Those who could afford not to care would simply be fueling the economy and funding the government.

But at the same time the Senators are neccessarily living "the high life" ... they earn $165,000 ... a good income for sure but not neccessarily putting them in the upper class setting. Living in an area where a 20 year old 3bed 1600 sq ft house goes for $650 to 700,000 ... they would in no way afford a mansion but they could get a rather respectable sized house an a decent sized lot.

I see many families around here taking home more that what this Senator is. I for one want a US Senator to earn more than a low-level manager at a medium sized company. If the pay isn't somewhat acceptable there are certain successful, hopefully bright-minded, individuals that won't bother to waste their time.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
I would favor a high sales tax .. or a federal sales tax at a pretty significant level ... the more you bought the more you paid and no need to file your taxes every year.

I for one want a US Senator to earn more than a low-level manager at a medium sized company.

Maybe our elected officials could get a percentage of the sales tax for the gross total sum of goods which are sold.

And marketing and manufacturing companies could buy advertising space by paying senators to wear thier logos. People could vote for the canidate with the most colorful comapny logos, just like nascar.

And they could support legislation which would benifit the companies, whose logos they are wearing.

Here is a picture of America's two party system hardly at work.




[edit on 24-1-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by sp00n1
the 16th amendment "Created no new powers of taxation" Plain and simple...

Until the constitution is amended, the 16th amendment cannot and does not allow for the individual income tax. Any other argument is frivolous and disregards the very foundation of this country!!!!!

This country formed when we broke away from England due to illegitimate taxation... DO YOU REALLY THINK THE FOUNDING FATHERS PUT ILLEGITIMATE TAXATION BACK INTO THE CONSTITUTION?!?!?!?!?!


Of course they didnt!!!

Now what really sucks is all the retards, and / or govt disinfo artists that have made a home on this forum trying to argue otherwise!!!!!!

Wasn't that taxation without representation? The fact that we were expected to pay tax to England but we were not allowed to have a voice in Parliment or have any play in laws and rules that would affect us as a colony.

But I guess if this guy follows through with his plan and kills someone ... he'll be a felon and unable to vote ... maybe then he could argue about taxation without representation.

So, no one has found the Law Of The Land yet, huh? Funny that, even with the gentle nudges...

okay, here's the table of contents page:

www.gpoaccess.gov...

Title 26.

Pack a lunch, it's a read, but it's all in there.

Why won't Oprah of some big name interview him on national TV?

I heard this man on My favorite radio station the other day in Florida. The problem I have with it is that the D.J. twisted every single word he said on him, or interrupted him, or talked over him or one of his cronies did the same. In essence the radio D.J. was a complete jerk. He called Ed Brown a "conspiracy idiot" and then after hanging up on the man, said he hopes to God that the Fed's blown him away. Is this radoi D.J. right in the head? No matter if Ed Brown is right or wrong...he hopes Ed Brown gets blown away? I don't care if I agree or disagree with Ed Brown, George W Bush, or anyone else, I would never hope they get blown away.

Ed Brown mentioned on the on air, that's live radio, that the Federal Government had taken away all of his guns with the exception of one which he had hidden when they had stormed his home while he was away. He sounded very lucid to Me, he said what he had to say and then was made fun of and belittled by this radio station. I won't mention their website address or their call sign or anything, because they're not worth the effort and this would give them undue attention for their having their collective heads up their butts giving them additional media attention, e-mails from ATS users, and just make the radio D.J., a typical blowhard a bigger head with his ego.

This is serious stuff happening. Not to be taken lightly, whether it's a Government unfailry oppressing its citizens for stupidity and taxes, or someone not being in their right mind, or defending his or her God given American rights.

Originally posted by torbjon
So, no one has found the Law Of The Land yet, huh? Funny that, even with the gentle nudges...

Nice punch, torbjon... but

Sec. 63. Taxable income defined


(a) In general

Except as provided in subsection (b), for purposes of this subtitle,
the term ``taxable income'' means gross income minus the deductions
allowed by this chapter (other than the standard deduction).
source

Sec. 61. Gross income defined


(a) General definition

Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means
all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to)
the following items:
(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions,
fringe benefits, and similar items;
(2) Gross income derived from business;
(3) Gains derived from dealings in property;
(4) Interest;
(5) Rents;
(6) Royalties;
(7) Dividends;
(8) Alimony and separate maintenance payments;
(9) Annuities;
(10) Income from life insurance and endowment contracts;
(11) Pensions;
(12) Income from discharge of indebtedness;
(13) Distributive share of partnership gross income;
(14) Income in respect of a decedent; and
(15) Income from an interest in an estate or trust.
source

Can you point out where it labels our "labor" as taxable income?

If you are referring to Compensation for services, you are barking up the wrong tree. The terminology the US Code uses for "services" is referring back to Corporate Taxation. Example... You own a tire shop. You change my tires, and I pay you for that "service". You are to pay an "income" tax on said service.... of which you pass on that cost to me.

Services? Am I getting a service when I "labor" for you at the tire shop? Nope. I'm providing a service, to you, of which I get compensation... of which is not a gain. That is an equal trade... my time for pay.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

“[T]he Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged.”
source

The "federal income tax" must be apportioned according to the Constitution, and it is not "apportioned".

Of which I forgot to add to my previous post... I'll make another post as to not confuse anyone by "editing" after having a chance to read the previous post.

To add to this thread (not meaning to "cross-thread"): www.abovetopsecret.com...


I wrote to my Senator, asking for proof that the Federal Income Tax is in fact law. I got in return a packet of Q n A's, as printed from the CRS (Congressional Research Service) Website.

CRS Report for Congress: Frequently Asked Questions Concerning the Federal Income Tax Updated January 7, 2005

I have looked and looked for a duplicate link to the information I was provided, but to no prevail. Givemeliberty.org is the closest I could find. This information is the only thing my Senator could "stand behind".

This very well could give more enlightenment on the subject.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
...the radio D.J. ... said he hopes to God that the Fed's blown him away.

Ed Brown mentioned on the on air, that's live radio, that the Federal Government had taken away all of his guns with the exception of one which he had hidden when they had stormed his home while he was away.

This is serious stuff happening. Not to be taken lightly, ... it's a Government unfailry oppressing its citizens ...

This is where America is at.

One man curses God; while another man is willing to die for the right to be free.

[edit on 29-1-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
...the radio D.J. ... said he hopes to God that the Fed's blown him away.

Ed Brown mentioned on the on air, that's live radio, that the Federal Government had taken away all of his guns with the exception of one which he had hidden when they had stormed his home while he was away.

This is serious stuff happening. Not to be taken lightly, ... it's a Government unfailry oppressing its citizens ...

This is where America is at.

One man curses God; while another man is willing to die for the right to be free.

[edit on 29-1-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Yes, this is a sad time when the masses are led by an idiot, the radio D.J....no one else was implied in that statment of Mine there...and that one citizen who is fighting for his life against the Government is being talked about like he's an idiot, a moron or "conspiracy nutcase."