New Hampshire man, Ed Brown, refuses to pay federal taxes - willing to fight for it.

THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated. Britain, with an army to enforce her tyranny, has declared that she has a right (not only to TAX) but "to BIND us in ALL CASES WHATSOEVER" and if being bound in that manner, is not slavery, then is there not such a thing as slavery upon earth. Even the expression is impious; for so unlimited a power can belong only to God.

- Thomas Paine December 23, 1776

If the interest rate on the national debt is 9% right now (may be a bit high). We would currently be paying about 720 billion+ in interest on that alone. If we paid that much, and didn't borrow ANY money, our 8.6 trillion debt would stay the same. If we borrowed any money, or paid anything less then the 720 billion dollars owed interest, we would still be increasing the national debt, without having to borrow ANY money that year.

Now we are borrowing money, correct. We are selling debt to other countries, correct.

My point is this. If you take out a loan of 30,000 dollars at 9%, you owe 2700 a year in interest. If you don't borrow any money, you still owe 2700 dollars, plus that 30,000 dollars. So if you don't pay that 2700, now you owe 32700 dollars.

We make less then 1 trillion in income taxes. Now if the government were to function perfectly and not lose ANY of the personal income tax, and used the personal income tax to pay off the interest on the national debt, we would have about 200 billions left over. Unfortunately we don't live in such a government.

Now maybe we aren't paying the interest off at all, and the Reagan report was lying. As to why it would lie and tell the public that it loses 1/3 of our income taxes, and the other part pays off interest and doesn't actually get used for anything would be beyond me. If they were going to lie, I would think they would say something along the lines "we found the income tax funds schools and roads in addition to the other taxes" but it didn't

If that report was a lie, it was the most illogical and pointless lie ever told. Mainly because the only thing that lie would do is cause MORE problems, not less.

ATSNN News Article Topic:

New Hampshire man, Ed Brown, refuses to pay federal taxes - willing to fight for it.

Economics is down the hall and to the right


Thank you.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
If that report was a lie, it was the most illogical and pointless lie ever told. Mainly because the only thing that lie would do is cause MORE problems, not less.

Reagan report aka voodoo economics from the 1980's? What's that have to do with our current economy or government spending? We have been told mucho lies and we have immense fiscal problems bordering on a depression, fiat capitulation and global war.

I assume you looked at the piechart link, right? We have to pay the interest on our loans or go into default, but we also must create more debt to meet those interest obligations and fund the rest of the federal budget. Each year since the 70's our beloved nutbag Congress has spent more money than its income...we are not paying down anything, we are creating more debt.

America's Total Debt Report $ 44 Trillion and soaring

I hope your not using these ideas to pay off credit cards with other credit cards and just making the minimum payments either, cause eventually the Piper will collect and the government can remain insolvent a lot longer than you can.

Uggh, I need an aspirin...

[edit on 22-1-2007 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
We have been told mucho lies and we have immense fiscal problems bordering on a depression, fiat capitulation and global war.

Each year since the 70's our beloved nutbag Congress has spent more money than its income...we are not paying down anything, we are creating more debt.

The eagle has landed; looks like a terminal case of bird flu



Interesting song lyrics
video.google.com...


[edit on 22-1-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
That means that income tax on your paycheck, is either being wasted/lost, or paying for the interest on the federal debt. It doesn't go to the schools and the roads, or any of that.

Yes there is waste. But the fact remains that our federal taxes pay for our national defense. It pays for bridges. It pays for infrastructure. FEMA and other government agencies and programs that help Americans.

Schools are paid for by local taxes, however there are federal programs and grants that help certain school programs. Heck .. some school buses take FEDERALLY FUNDED highways to school. No child left behind.

Originally posted by tom goose
Ed Brown in actually doing something,

Yes, freeloading off my tax money. He's enjoying freedom that my federal tax money pays for. He's used highways that my federal tax money paid for. He's traveling over bridges that my federal tax money paid for. etc etc. Yes, he's doing something. FREELOADING.


If someone wants to protest waste in federal government spending, I'm all for it. I don't appreciate having to pay for Ted Kennedy's 'business lunches'. However, the fact is that our federal taxes pay for many of the things we enjoy now such as our freedom - which you are enjoying right now as you post on the internet. You can thank your federal tax dollars for your freedom to be able to do that.

[edit on 1/22/2007 by FlyersFan]

Here is where your Federal Money is being spent.



Federal Budget Spending Chart

Originally posted by FlyersFan
[ Yes, he's doing something. FREELOADING.

[edit on 1/22/2007 by FlyersFan]

you have missed the whole point of his protest and the point of this thread. He is not freeloading off YOUR tax. Do you know where you income tax goes. It does NOT go to the government, it goes to the Federal Reserve, which is a PRIVATE bank, owned by 8 families. Your income tax isn't used to fund the running of the country, it is used to fund the Federal Reserve. The owners of the Federal Reserve are laughing at you as they take your tax.
If you need to learn more about the Federal Reserve you can look search google videos of Aaron Russo's Freedom to Facism movie, or check out this clip.
www.youtube.com...

The government does collect taxes from other sources besides income.

[edit on 22-1-2007 by golddragnet]

While I don't have the time to read through every single post I do in fact support Mr. Brown all the way in this fight.

My father has had a lot of problems with the IRS and they just recently began garnishing his wages. His paycheck has gone from about $800 every two weeks to a little over $200 every two weeks (only if he works a lot of overtime.) I can't understand how to government considers this at all logical:

My dad owes the IRS money. The IRS takes 70% or more of his paycheck each paycheck. My dad can't feed himself and has to go on welfare and section 8 housing. The IRS can't tax welfare. The IRS can no longer get any money out of my dad. How the hell is that logical????


I think we should also remember that Mr. Brown is only contesting the Federal Income Tax that he apparently owes. He still pays his state taxes.

I think it's also important to note that Income tax is generally taken to mean that you MUST pay income tax on ALL INCOME. Yes, all income, even illegal income. That's how they got Al Capone. Here's an example:

You're a pot dealer, you made $100,000 in profit last year. You now have to pay income tax on that $100,000 profit or you can be charged with tax evasion, and if you get arrested, you most likely will be. It happens all the time.

So to recap our example here, the Federal Government does indeed profit off of illegal transactions such as the sale of illegal narcotics.

I still can't justify to myself the idea that the Federal Government is not criminal if it profits off the sale of illegal drugs.

The people need to be educated in the truth!!!

Go Ed Go!!!!!

This guy wins a federal case against the IRS.

1040 Checkmate?

DOJ Dismisses Felony Tax Prosecution
-- With Prejudice -- After PRA Defense Raised

Evidence OMB Complicit In Income Tax Fraud

DOJ & IRS Petitioned To Explain


On May 12, 2006 in Peoria, Illinois, the attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) begged the court to dismiss all charges against IRS victim Robert Lawrence in federal District Court.

The motion for dismissal came on the heels of a surprise tactic by Lawrence’s defense attorney Oscar Stilley.

The tactic threatened exposure of IRS’s on-going efforts to defraud the public. The move put DOJ attorneys in a state of panic that left them with only one alternative: beg for dismissal, with prejudice.

IRS Loses In Federal Court over 1040

[edit on 22-1-2007 by Realtruth]

Ed brown in his own words!! Exclusive interview, behind the scenes. Skip to 10:00, the beginning is filler fluff. Excellent video, explains what happened and why! Must see for all tax protesters!


video.google.com...


Taxes are illegal!! Read the constitution! Article 1, section 9 explicitly states, "No direct capitation tax shall be imposed!"!

This guy is a hero! There is no law requiring you to pay taxes. The 1040 form has an OMB number on top that only applies to non-resident aliens in DC, Puerto Rico, and etc... Not in the 50 United States!

The government does not need tax money! Corporate taxes pay for military. Gas taxes pay for roads! Property taxes pay for school. Social security taxes pay for social security, which most of us will never collect!

The US survived for 200 years without individual income tax! Tariffs, excise taxes (sales tax, gas tax, tobacco tax), and corporate income tax paid for all government needs. The income tax only lets the government expand far bigger than it needs to be! Small governments can not, and should not, interfere in the daily lifes of its citizens!

All tax courts are kangaroo courts. The judges dont let the juries here the evidence!! God bless America!

[edit on 1/22/2007 by sp00n1]

Here's how you too can get involved... A company that will help you eliminate your debts by arguing they are illegal and unconstitutional.

Federal Debt Relief System

[edit on 22-1-2007 by mecheng]

Fine, if you would like to say the individual income tax pay for it, even after I showed you the report, then thats your choice flyersfan.

Regen if you want to say they are lying, fine. Not that it would make any sense to lie and say "we lose your money, and the other half isn't spent on anything" but fine.

Honestly if you want to keep believing that gas taxes, corporate income taxes, property taxes, etc. are not the taxes that are ACTUALLY paying for the services you listed, then fine.

Now I can't see how you could say our taxes pay for all that stuff. The other taxes do, then we borrow the rest of the money. Thats why we are so high in debt. Its not the iraq war or afganistan war, because corporate income tax pays that off completely.

The debt rises because those programs are created like the DHS and are not funded. Income tax is paying the interest accumulating on the national debt, plain and simple. Money borrowed each year to pay for those programs listed is why the debt keeps rising.

Fine, if you would like to say the individual income tax pay for it, even after I showed you the report, then thats your choice flyersfan.

Regen if you want to say they are lying, fine. Not that it would make any sense to lie and say "we lose your money, and the other half isn't spent on anything" but fine.

Honestly if you want to keep believing that gas taxes, corporate income taxes, property taxes, etc. are not the taxes that are ACTUALLY paying for the services you listed, then fine.

Now I can't see how you could say our taxes pay for all that stuff. The other taxes do, then we borrow the rest of the money. Thats why we are so high in debt. Its not the iraq war or afganistan war, because corporate income tax pays that off completely.

The debt rises because those programs are created like the DHS and are not funded. Income tax is paying the interest accumulating on the national debt, plain and simple. Money borrowed each year to pay for those programs listed is why the debt keeps rising.

double

[edit on 22-1-2007 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
The debt rises because those programs are created like the DHS and are not funded. Income tax is paying the interest accumulating on the national debt, plain and simple. Money borrowed each year to pay for those programs listed is why the debt keeps rising.

If they pay off all those pork projects first and have nothing left, they create more debt in order to cover interest obligations. It's all the same pile.

Debt is not wealth, Bush lied and the tail spin continues:

Margin debt rises 22 percent.
Pfizer boots 10,000 employees.
Motorola fires 35,000 employees.
Fed Chairman Bernanke warns of "fiscal crisis" if deficits continue to rise.
There have been 1.2 million foreclosures in the U.S. during the past 12 months.

Here's a comprehensive interactive chart:
Death and Taxes: A Visual Guide to Where Your Federal Tax Dollars Go

I can see why Ed doesn't want to pay tax, but he's not going to win with a pistol.



[edit on 22-1-2007 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by sp00n1
Taxes are illegal!! Read the constitution! Article 1, section 9 explicitly states, "No direct capitation tax shall be imposed!"!

Wrong.

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Originally posted by SeekTruth

Originally posted by sp00n1
Taxes are illegal!! Read the constitution! Article 1, section 9 explicitly states, "No direct capitation tax shall be imposed!"!

Wrong.

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

This is going circles

Definition of INCOME = gain or profits of gain and not wages as explained in the following...
Aaron Russo talks with IRS Commissioner Sheldon Cohen

Article XVI which gives the congress the "power" to have a federal income tax, was found to be UNCONSTITUTIONAL by the Supreme Court! How congress can ratify anything found UNCONSTITUTIONAL is BEYOND me!

alright lets try to simplify it so we understand where each of us are coming from. You say Federal Income Tax on individuals pays for services. I say it doesn't. You show me a government chart, I show you a government report. Yes its from the reagan administration. The point of that document was to show it WAS paying for interest on the National debt. The national debt has risen since then.

If the income tax is really paying for services now, what taxes are paying for the interest that the Reagan administration found the income tax was paying for back in 1984?

Very interesting interview of Ed Brown in 1994
He's talking about the New World Order, gun control, the enemy within, FEMA camps and the year 2000, which was the ``goal`` year to achieve the NWO, but failed.