China, it's military capabilities, and chinese nationalists

Originally posted by warset

and about the so called "multi-polar" thingy, the whole thing is somewhat BS too. if one day china in power, im sure, they'd make some sort of NWO type thingy too.

[edit on 1/24/2007 by warset]

That will not be possible. Nobody will allow it starting with the US.
They may want a uni-polar Asia but they cannot possibly hope to rise to the status of an unipolar superpower.

might not be possible, but some ppl dreamed of that anyway

why is this thread posted on the "weaponary" forum?
has not much do with weaponary anyway.

China takes the US out to dinner. But the US is the one paying chinas salary. Ya get where im going with that?

Originally posted by warset
see how today's US/japan's condemnation toward china actually served as a tool to help bring nationalism among chinese people? communism BS can't bring nationalism any more, but those condemnations BS from freedom/human rights groups will.

i read chinese forums all the time, chinese ppl don't love communist governments, but they hate the US much more, and their government's action against the US/japan will make them to love their government.

this is almost exactly the same for the US government, american ppl absolutly LOVe their country when their government talks about condeming "evil regions" and fighting for "freedom and human rights", and standing in the "name of justice"

so the story is somewhat like this: every time when the US condems the chinese government, and the chinese government strikes back, the ppl in both country become patriotic about their own country. this help both governments to govern their country, the only problem is that both the americans and the chinese will hate eachother even more.

in the previous post, i didnt say that the those chinese ppl's opinions are correct, but it's infact the reality, and the american ppl have this kind of opinions too toward chinese ppl

reading from chinese forums, i often see those "usa vs china" type posts too, which are almost identical to where the discussions lead on ATS forum, except they are in the "chinese version", which the "protagonist" is now china and the "antagonist" is usa, but the story is basically the same.

and about the so called "multi-polar" thingy, the whole thing is somewhat BS too. if one day china in power, im sure, they'd make some sort of NWO type thingy too.

there really isn't a "whos right and whos wrong" conclusion, the ones who have more power and louder voice get to keep their title of "being the right one".

and for the chinese government today, their job is to make the country strong and have all those powers; they are not just talking big words; they are really doing it.
Deny the fact that china today is gaining power fast is just playing ignorant

PS. NK did invade SK first, but im sure if UN had stopped at the 38 boarder, then NK would not get those "additional" communists support.

[edit on 1/24/2007 by warset]

Something most of you havent understood was that although my posts were long and chaotic at times, but my point was something you never got. I believe the constructive critcisms of China have mostly been brushed off as simple majority of people in China accept the CCP. They accept the negtive aspects of their lives and soceity in relation to the government. That is something on a principal level counter to everything the West is. That is something you and Chinawhite dont seem to understand and brush me off as some ignorant arrogant super patriot american. Im not arguing who right whos wrong, I write this because I care, because I am Chinese too but I dont feel that being Chinese means I swear alligience to the CCP.

I wrote this because I undestand and long felt the desire by all Chinese people to seek acceptance as recognition in the west as an equal and a first among nations. What I pointed out was our ways of seeking respect internationally do not gain as any and makes sure seem dangerous and gives way to the alarmist views that the west generally hold. This is, as China differ morally and ethically on a principal way and this is causing the conflict. I read an article wrote by westerners in China where it quoted a Chinese newpaper...

www.danwei.org...

After reading the english translation it made some sense to me but still I saw in it what I was criticising. You are right warset by saying that criticising people's countries or governments usually tend to draw out nationalism and pride but the wests criticism of China for the most part is constructive and would help China become a better country.

[edit on 26-1-2007 by pilotshinjiikaru]

The West especially the US with a militant fervorism, believes in democracys and human rights (Im sure someones gonna throw in what about Abu Gharib or something of the type). The foundations of America, its foreign policys and why it fought 2 world wars that didnt directly affect it (well not so much WWI) is because its sole existance is to practice democracy and respect the rights of its people and by extention promoting it in all corners of the world. These are things that are principally different in China. Alot of criticism of China I witnessed as a child came in part from the long rooted racism towards Asians and Chinese which morphed into the militant anti communism of the McCarthy days which fit perfectly with centuries old stereotypes and racist perceptions of us.

But China differs from US in tha the Chinese people accepts the CCP and accepts that there is nothing they can do about that, only thing they can do to improve their lives is financially. While in the US the principal foundation of our country was that wealth and power meant little and it was freedom to the masses. Sounds alot like communism which is the irony I suppose. And another issue is Taiwan, after the Iraq invasion Bush has used democracy as a mean to legitimize the US troops there. So if the US is willing to take military actions to spread democracy to countries that it benefits from why would it sit idilly as Taiwan gets threatened? I mean theres probably very few americans or people in the West who accepts that Taiwan would love to reunite with China and only the US with its imperialist ways is holding China's rise to power back but seperating whats rightfully China's. So as long as China's communist, and its policies towards its people are countering to that of Western values, morals, and ethics and China continues to saber rattle at Taiwan and the US and promote nationalism in a unhealthy way to counter western values then the West will continue to criticize China and see it as a threat.

Originally posted by warset
might not be possible, but some ppl dreamed of that anyway

why is this thread posted on the "weaponary" forum?
has not much do with weaponary anyway.

Well it started out as something about China's strategic position and Taiwan as an assessment I suppose because this board looked lonely but as I started writing it it got very long and I thought of where else to post it but didnt see any other sections that it could fit into. As this forum is very paranoia, UFO, Area 51, HIDDEN GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACIES oriented Lol.... but in the excercise of writing this thread and replying to your and Chinawhite it has made me question my views more and now I think i'm much more informed and have a better view and appreciation of China. Which is making me look forward very much to my return to Chengdu, Sichuan this year. At first I dreaded two months with my relatives in a bleek, dirty and polluted (by western standards) city that was Chengdu. But now I was thinking I might wanna stay for a year or two but Im sure my education time table wont allow that.

I just want to say that in the beginning of writing this my views were much MORE stereotypical and focused on the negitive. I was exposed to the more negitive side of being Chinese while both in China as a child and in the US. And I looked at China with a more western perspective and couldnt remove myself from the negitive. But still my criticism are still valid, in the end it wont change anything and writing it in English wont change anyone's views in China. And i'm sure if I did ever write this in a Chinese forum it would get deleted by mods or flamed by 1,000 people that I couldnt reply to. But I guess im excercising my constitutional rights. I look forward to going back to China with my AMERICAN PASSPORT hehehehhe as I can talk, flame, incite, argue and not really worry much about the consequences. I

Originally posted by warset
PS. NK did invade SK first, but im sure if UN had stopped at the 38 boarder, then NK would not get those "additional" communists support.

I wrote about my parents believing in the CCP propaganda about North Korea as that the Chinese addition into the conflict wasn't self righteous as many Chinese were taught to believe. If the same had happened in reverse and South Korea invaded the North and China beat it back would it stop at the 38th parallel? Definitely not. But my point wasnt about the politics in it as the West accepts the UN response to the North Korean invasion was a correct one but that the CCP can make anyone in China believing in anything. I saw a documentry where Chinese soldiers from the war believed NK was a part of China that they were fighting a American invasion of the Chinese mainland.

Originally posted by warset
...and for the chinese government today, their job is to make the country strong and have all those powers; they are not just talking big words; they are really doing it.
Deny the fact that china today is gaining power fast is just playing ignorant

And I never denied anything about China's growth or rise to power, I just wanted to show people that Saber Rattling and brushing off constructive criticism and supressing anything negitive is not the best way to gain respect for China's new found status. That like me flexing my biceps as saying WHAT BIG MUSLCES I HAVE! HAHA! while people are saying your zippers unzipped and your shoe laces are untied and you have holes in your pants. And I proceed to ignore them and flex my muscles and boast about myself my power and my riches. And then get angry that the other kids are always trying to keep me down by pointing out my flaws, and brush it off and say its a conspiracy by the cool kids because their threatened by me.

yes, at the time when you/your parents left china, china was still a poor ass nation with most of its citizens believed in CCP propagandas

now it's not like that anymore

yes, you would get "flamed" on a chinese forum if you talk like this, because ppl there would think you despise them then you yourself aren't any good.

chinese ppl today know much better than those old communists propagandas.

your knowledge to china is still quite limited to china in the 90's where china was still a poor thirdworld country. unfortunately that doesn't make you a modern "up to date" chinese.

your opinion might still hold truth about many older chinese ppl, but it's indeed quite different from what youger people think.

they know what had happened in NK (except in a different perspective); they know how had the soviet communism failed; they know what's US democracy, and what's freedom of speech.
they don't need you to teach them.
the new generation of chinese ppl know much more about american ppl than american ppl know about chinese ppl

china today is full of ppl who have received educations from western countrys.
just to count how many chinese students are here studying in american/european universities. among those ppl, many are international students, and will go back to china after finishing their studies..

they know what's going on in the US.
US really isn't a "mistery land" to them. china today isn't NK, where ppl barely know anything outside of their country.

PS. one thing i have to agree with you: the chinese community today is quite "cocky" and "naziism". this has a lot to do with the fact that they felt they have being pushed around by other people for too long. this is kinda like what had happen to germans after losing WWI, and how they had developed their naziism behaviors after.

[edit on 1/27/2007 by warset]

I'm back in Australia with a full sized keyboard to type on so i'm going to make a reply

Originally posted by pilotshinjiikaru
And my opinions are no more right or wrong that you are. You can say my opinion is out of touch and I can say your biased.

Now its opinion?

Do you wish for me to quote what you actually wrote because it wasn't a opinion that was written it was a pure statement which i completely discredited with proof. If you wish to make absurd statements you should entitle them with "my opinion" not this happened and its like that because they are called statements. Why would you say im bias?. Because i reply to everything you say or that i dont agree with this America this policy?

Your IM IN CHINA SO YOUR WRONG AND MY FAMILIES IN TAIWAN AND ANYONE WHO SAYS ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY TO WHAT IM TELLING YOU IS LYING

No, My "im in china and meet and talk to actual people who live there as opposed to your ignorant knnowledge based on the opinions of a few immigrant "taiwanese" living in the USA who apprantly discrimminate on you for being a mainlander.

Obviously, having talked and BEEN to Taiwan and was Currently in china has a much more up-to-date knowledge of the thoughts of people as opposed to what you know. I didn't accuse you of lying, another example of being thin skinned, i merely point out the fact that you lied when you made those statemetns i discredited before. I do believe that was what you were told since i met people like that in Taiwan and In Hong Kong since they have similar mentality. In Hong Kong they were practically throwing newspapers and books about the organ harvesters or something similar and pictures etc...

Extreme left wing pathetic attacks on the US and the west because you assume I criticize the Chinese Communist Party that I'm some super patriot right wing war mongering fat american.

Attacks on the US??????. What attacks on the US, how did i suddenly become the "left" wing. I couldn't care less if you single handedly destroyed the CCCP, it doesn't represent china. What you did was post a rather uneducated attack on chinese cultural based on stereotypical views and making statemetns which you later claimed were just opinions even though you didn't mention any opinions when making these statements

You can continue like your friends on this thread that embracing communism is patriotic

If you try to look for bad, you will always find bad

?

Communism was not the focus of Mao Zedong, he saw it as the ideoloy which would make chinese people live a fair life instead being historically exploited for the profit of others. Communism is looked upon as equallioty and has nothing to do with nationalism. Take for example the Chinese national anthem. Communism has been protrayed and manipulated by the western media without understanding its meaning. Its been associated with evil mean and the "evil empire" title .

The Chinese national Anthem is beautiful, powerful and dignified


　　Arise, ye who refuse to be slaves!
　　Let us amount our flesh and blood towards our new Great Wall!
　　The Chinese nation faces its greatest peril,
　　The thundering roar of our peoples will be heard!
　　Arise! Arise! Arise!
　　We are many, but our hearts beat as one!
　　Selflessly braving the enemy's gunfire, march on!
　　Selflessly braving the enemy's gunfire, march on!
　　March on! March on! on! 　　

This english translation doesn't capture the passion that the Chinese words have and has nothing to do with the CCP but appeals the the former chinese peasant who had his head stepped on for countless generations, Mao tried to address these old tendency's with re-education like the cultural revolution.

Cultural revolution was good in my opinion, it was a massive re-education program to destroy the old Chinese mentality of slave labor and superstitious and embarrassment past rulers have caused the average Chinese with a European flair. It was obviously nessary since corupption, gambling and other so called "olds" were re-appearing and needed to be stamped out. You mentioned something about the EP-3 incident being chinas way or chinese mentality of making people look bad, well this actually sounds like your trying to relate what you parents done to you to a sterotypical picture of china

And chinawhite like I repeatedly said I could careless how you attack me

Dont be so thin skinned, I pointed out your mistakes and you try grasp at them like straws. I called you a troll because you were trolling and then somehow becomes this epic episode of personal attacks?

Minor crimes or incidents happen in the US will be headline news on Xinhua. Well if the West did the same thing then everyday they would be reporting how many miners died, how many peasents died from Cancer attritbuted to water pollution.

Can you please quote this Xinhua news of "minor" incidients in the US because I'm a reader of XInhua and somehow miss these articles you speak so passionly about. And i suggest you pick up a copy of the washinton times, times magazine or watch CNN and see all these things they supposedly dont report.

Heres a field researched one
Chinese Road Killers (CNN)

Why dont you find me a comparable report about that in Xinhua

....

China serves the CCCP not the other way around.

The CCCP accounts for 70 million of chinas population, now take this into account, 1 member will at least have another 3 other direct family members(wife, kids etc) so the figure jumps to 280million people directly assoicated with the CCCP, take their brothers sisters and parents and that could be more than 80% of the entire chinese population DIRECTLY connected to a chinese communist member. In other words serving the people or the majority of them at least.

Your notion that the CCCP serves itself is ridiculous since they dont live the pampered lifestyle compared to other leaders like GWB, Crazy Kim. Most chinese leaders are more than middle aged and have been in the system serving the people and are well mannered and dont have these wild lifestyles compared to other countries. Now lets talk about exploitation, does the government exploit their people (no agricultural taxes) or is it the compaines from these Demoncratic compaines?. Who is to blame?

I love how you cite military figures from unsubstaniated and uncrediable sources on the internet and criticize and laugh at FAS. But keep it in your mind that Janes is paid for its info and FAS is accredited globally.

This is getting ridiculous, where did i say FAS??????. What figures?


Where does Janes get here pictures and information from? ... The internet
. The Same Unreliable sources that I use

FAS is a run down military website that hasn't been updated since 2000 and even then its information was a collection of rumors and mostly old or fake pictures

Because trying to win an argument on the internet is sad and pathetic, so I dont try

And that statement has real impact because you were the one trying to agrue these points

China has no wrongs, no evils, it is almighty but has no ill intentions

Actually china has many wrongs, it has many evils and i saw them first hand myself. Some of the older generation have poor hygiene (spitting, washing hands etc) but things like this are expected because of the different age they were brought up in. Your trying to make out as if china has all these problems and are repressed or something. Not much people are repressed in China, The things i'm telling you now are the same i told the guys in Hong Kong, " The reason why chinese brutality or organ harvesters are not posted on chinese websites is because NO ONE CARES AND NO ONE BELIEVES YOU"





[edit on 28-1-2007 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by pilotshinjiikaru
I said your anti american because of the comments you made without even understanding what I was initally tried to say.

Im Anti-American because I did not make a big effort to "understand" you better. Wait a second ..... How is that Anti-American?

Did you not prove me right? By immediately jumping to personal attacks to questioning and then belittling my family and me.

Personal attacks?. Gez wiz, you mean calling you a troll or should i have held my tongue regarding this little Rant of a thread you made. Now you accuse me of belittling your family, i did little more than asked for proof instead of all these claims and i belittled their existance with my question?. You have a sensitivity issue and you need to address this before you throw more of these "opinions" around.

Your other post about being rejected by America is touching and kind of explains why you want people to think your American instead of Chinese

On the principal grounds that you refuse to recognize free press doesnt = propaganda.

Anything with a Point Of View should be considered propaganda since there is always a counter argument

Like I mentioned before my parents still think China beat the world (UN) in Korea and that US invaded North Korea first and that it was going to invade China

And what version of events do you think happened? Let me guess

*Pulls out Hawks handbook*

The evil devilish North Koreans tried to pull a fast one on the democratic South Koreans and America jumped in on the side of justice when the Reds begun pouring over the border. But we will claim it a vicotry since we claimed to have downed and killed more of them

pilotshinjiikaru,

I understand the point your coming from. Its easy to sit on one fence and point fingers but to fall off that fence and being in that situation is a different story. Faces arent just faces, faces then become people.

What you made chinese people sound like where drones connected to the party, in reality no one really cares and everything is lapse so money can be made fast and free flowing, to get rich is glorious is the new "party line"

If you try to look for bad, you will always find bad

That is exactly what has become the popular thing for anti-american crowd to do.

If china is to be the next world superpower, it sure would be nice to not be the only ones the world seems to hate.



[edit on 033131p://4501am by semperfoo]

can't really put it that way

more than half of the world hates america too

only some european states(or country populated with europeans) and a few US's "puppet states" love the US

and ironically, it's the "white ppl" today who have the most powers, and so it seems that the entire world supports the US
But really, it's just those countries led by white ppl support the US (including the puppet ones which are also ultimately led by white ppl).

[edit on 1/28/2007 by warset]

Originally posted by warset
can't really put it that way

more than half of the world hates america too

only some european states(or country populated with europeans) and a few US's "puppet states" love the US

and ironically, it's the "white ppl" today who have the most powers, and so it seems that the entire world supports the US
But really, it's just those countries led by white ppl support the US (including the puppet ones which are also ultimately led by white ppl).

[edit on 1/28/2007 by warset]

I disagree warset. It might seem as though they like the US. ( Its more like they tolerate us)Fact is they are anti american just as the next. Maybe not Hugo chavez type, but you get the point.

Also, America has many different cultures within its borders.

I would also like to point out that Human rights in china actually worsened in 2006.
www.washingtonpost.com...

I really dont see the change china has made that you seem to point to.
Hu Jintao has "vowed to "purify" the web in china" So it looks like china wants to put a 'tighter' lid on what sites its internet users can and cant see.
www.cnn.com...

And China's movie censor will not approve Golden Globe-honored film "The Departed" for domestic cinematic release due to its mention of a Chinese plan to buy military equipment.
www.nytimes.com...



[edit on 063131p://0901pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by chinawhite
pilotshinjiikaru,

I understand the point your coming from. Its easy to sit on one fence and point fingers but to fall off that fence and being in that situation is a different story. Faces arent just faces, faces then become people.

What you made chinese people sound like where drones connected to the party, in reality no one really cares and everything is lapse so money can be made fast and free flowing, to get rich is glorious is the new "party line"

I love your new signature by the way, its cute!

Originally posted by warset
yes, at the time when you/your parents left china, china was still a poor ass nation with most of its citizens believed in CCP propagandas

now it's not like that anymore

yes, you would get "flamed" on a chinese forum if you talk like this, because ppl there would think you despise them then you yourself aren't any good.

chinese ppl today know much better than those old communists propagandas.

your knowledge to china is still quite limited to china in the 90's where china was still a poor thirdworld country. unfortunately that doesn't make you a modern "up to date" chinese.

your opinion might still hold truth about many older chinese ppl, but it's indeed quite different from what youger people think.

they know what had happened in NK (except in a different perspective); they know how had the soviet communism failed; they know what's US democracy, and what's freedom of speech.
they don't need you to teach them.
the new generation of chinese ppl know much more about american ppl than american ppl know about chinese ppl

china today is full of ppl who have received educations from western countrys.
just to count how many chinese students are here studying in american/european universities. among those ppl, many are international students, and will go back to china after finishing their studies..

they know what's going on in the US.
US really isn't a "mistery land" to them. china today isn't NK, where ppl barely know anything outside of their country.

PS. one thing i have to agree with you: the chinese community today is quite "cocky" and "naziism". this has a lot to do with the fact that they felt they have being pushed around by other people for too long. this is kinda like what had happen to germans after losing WWI, and how they had developed their naziism behaviors after.

[edit on 1/27/2007 by warset]

People can be as educated but when your told what you cant say or think well then all that education wont make an once of difference. And if you guys really understood repeatedly then you would have seen that I said many times that nationalism in China isn't naturally occuring alot of it is allowed to ferment by the government. For political reasons mainly, take the anti japanese protests the official PRC line was quite but they let the protests happen and everyone read that the government was expressing their views by using the nationalists. I just dont like how they stoke the fire.

I never said I was up to date, I never said like Chinawhite did MY PARENTS ARE FROM THERE SO I CANT BE WRONG. I only mentioned what my perceptions are. You can say all of us who aren't in the PRC are biased and im sure we all are to an extent but to say that they have a grasp of everything and the world as well as we do in the west is not true. Like I said before theres press freedom in the PRC as we all know but only to an extent. I mean their not telling you what to say and think in the old days but now they do it a little more suttle.

And if you read my previous post you would see that I didnt see CHINA IS A THIRD WORLD P.O.S. BECAUSE ITS COMMUNIST. Im guessing your exposing that the PRC political system is right and that its acceptable. I dont think democracy is the end all be all perfect system but that the western standard of government accountability. Which is a part of democracy, im sure socialism could work but the way its practiced now in the PRC is that the party head can never be wrong and you can never question the party (at high levels). I just wished there was a shift towards serious political transperancy and not current system. I personally think the PRC will never shift towards complete transperancy.

And like I said many times because I criticize the CCP doesnt mean I hate China, being patriotic has nothing to do with political affiliation thats a common mistake in China and the US.

Chinawhite I have spent too much time on arguing with you, if anyone else who reads this can go back and reread what both of us posted. You say you discredited me and I told you I discredited all your counter arguments because you make unreasonable assumptions. I will address a few as I have done many times, I dont care to quote you because Im much too lazy to and this a BBS so I could care less how much you claim to discredit me and using misleading quotes.

To put it simply everything you write here that "backed up" by your "proof" can easily be discredited because like I said in a long post previously you rely on uncredited internet source. I remember on another english forum on chinese defense which Im too lazy to look up I remember im pretty sure it was you who posted a thread called something like CHINAS NEW AIRCRAFT CARRIER and then someone posted a reply saying it was simply a photoshopped picture of the USS G. H. Bush. Im sure your going to say WHERES THE PROOF? I dont care...this is the internet, I can fabricate any proof.

About FAS you referred to FAS when you said their assessment that China has only 20 ICBM is a laughable joke. They never list China as having only 20 ICBM only as 20 ICBMs of one type and others as "- -". Probably meaning unknown. The FAS is a widely recognized organization so you can come up with any proof you like and you still wont be anymore right.

Janes is paid for their assessment which doesnt come from internet sources but by defense analysts. Their organization has many people who use to work in the intelligence field. So to put it simply,

JANES IS PAID FOR WHAT THEY THINK, NOT YOU, SO YOU CAN QUOTE ALL THE INTERNET SOURCES IN THE WORLD AND YOU WONT BE ANYMORE RIGHT as long as their not credible sources. This forum is a example of them, conspiracies theories abroad. I can quote amature publications that say anything I could possibly want to argue. So your sources meanly literally 0 as in nothing. So you and your logical fallocies wont get you anywhere. So quote all the internet sources all you want, and make all the misleading quotes of me all you want but it wont get you anywhere. In my previous posts I summed up my views.

Like I wrote in many many replies before arguing about whos right and whos not in the internet is pretty retarded, a game no one can win. So I dont care if you think you can continiously use your ficticious sources to quote every sentence and try to proclaim victory.

And on Taiwan, theres really no one in power outside of China and its allies, important here I said allies. That believe that Taiwan wants to RIGHT NOW, AT THIS VERY MOMENT subvert to communist rule. The KMT is all about reuniting but this is a catch 22, reuniting they espouse was always back to a democractic Taiwan. Up until their loss of political power they continue to espouse the unrealistic notion of one day retaking China back. So to say the current opposition in Taiwan wants to reunite is in fact a lie. Sure they want to reunite with China BUT either a democractic one or a KMT one.

[edit on 28-1-2007 by pilotshinjiikaru]

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by pilotshinjiikaru
Like I mentioned before my parents still think China beat the world (UN) in Korea and that US invaded North Korea first and that it was going to invade China

And what version of events do you think happened? Let me guess

*Pulls out Hawks handbook*

The evil devilish North Koreans tried to pull a fast one on the democratic South Koreans and America jumped in on the side of justice when the Reds begun pouring over the border. But we will claim it a vicotry since we claimed to have downed and killed more of them

Right im sure it makes so much sense that the US wanted to invade north korea because it let north korea survive all that time until it invaded the south.

And Im sure the US wanted to invade China even though Chang Kai Shek during the civil war in China asked for more US military support and even direct intervention but the Chief of Staff felt the KMT situation in China was unsupportable. So Im sure when given the chance at after WWII when the US military might was in its height and the Communists were winning but not in complete control of China that the US wouldnt invade China when it could have but chose later to invade China during the Korean war when its Soviet allies who just exploded their own atomic bomb.

GOSH YOUR SO RIGHT!!!! Thats some logic you got. Wow it's pretty sad your from Australia and believe that your own country participated in the invasion of China with the US. Because thats what your saying here. Gosh how you must hate being a citizen of a imperialist country!

Im sure you cant accept the idea the China didnt want the US at its doorsteps containing it like it already did. So I'm sure your correct and that China fought the US and the UN forces in Korea because they were going to invade China.

[edit on 28-1-2007 by pilotshinjiikaru]

man, i love how you talk about ur imaginary 90's china, and use it as some sort of evident to prove that you are open minded....

keep that attitude up dude, till one day you go there and see what's going on yourself, and then you will tell yourself how wrong ur opinions were.
(unless you hate to see china develop)

Originally posted by warset
man, i love how you talk about ur imaginary 90's china, and use it as some sort of evident to prove that you are open minded....

keep that attitude up dude, till one day you go there and see what's going on yourself, and then you will tell yourself how wrong ur opinions were.
(unless you hate to see china develop)

Jesus christ, get over yourself. Your sounding really immature. China is not all great you know. Many parts of china are still considered to be thirdworld. And thats just how it is. Sure things for the chinese economy are looking up. And you ppl should be proud of how the chinese economy is making out. I personally think the world could benefit with a strong china(with its head in the right place) as well as a strong US. Our happy meals in Mc Donalds thank you china...

But... The fact is, China has a long ways to go before it can say its a 'developed' nation.

I just posted a link that says Hu Jintao (your president) is going to put a tighter lid on the internet over in china. What is chinas excuse for that? Why does the chinese government see it fit to block certain sites that might promote "free thinkers"? Why not let the average chinese person make up their own mind about what is right and what is wrong?

I think pilot is on to something when he says that the chinese government uses propaganda to "brain wash" the chinese ppl. Why else would the CPRC want to filter their internet, block certain movies that might make china look "weak" because they are buying military equipment not constructed within china? Sadly those are just a few cases. Its stuff like that that the world sees. And we think its a damn shame with what is going on in china right now. Right now the communist government of china is breeding the most arrogant ppl to grace this earth by making them think "China everything" Which in reality is a bunch of bullsh8t! And you thought us americans were bad, you aint seen nothing yet.