Steven Greer at LA Conscious Life Expo

If Greer was lying about all his contacts and meetings with people, they would have called him out on it and distanced themselves from him. That hasnt happened.

Innoscent until proven guilty. When has Greer ever lied? Never to my knowlege. Many of the things he has said so far are even coroborated by the Disclosure Project witnesses and others (in various forms/degrees).


[edit on 15-1-2007 by Unplugged]

Just Say Nothing If You Agree With This

Originally posted by Unplugged
If Greer was lying about all his contacts and meetings with people, they would have called him out on it and distanced themselves from him. That hasnt happened.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it assumes:

1. That they've even heard of him.

2. That they know what he's said about them.

3. That they would care or bother to say anything if they did.

In other words, assuming something based on a lack of evidence isn't evidence itself.

Originally posted by Unplugged
If Greer was lying about all his contacts and meetings with people, they would have called him out on it and distanced themselves from him. That hasnt happened.

< cough >

yes it has - the woolsey letter

it was referenced on this very thread

Originally posted by untouchable

Originally posted by Nygdan
I am shocked to see that people are still giving this guy the time of day. Greer had previously stated that he had absolute evidence of alien existence and contact, and that he'd present it. He never did. He is stringing people along.

The statement uttered above is by far the most uneducated, biased remark I've found on this site to date. This so-called "expert" is trying to tell you that Dr. Steven Greer to has not presented any evidence of alien existence and or contact. When in FACT Dr. Greer held a national press club conference in 2001 and presented overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Coincidentally this press club conference was held just a couple of months before the incidences of 9/11. The one and only reason Dr. Greer has not been given his day to present his case to Congress is because the United States government has convinced the people that it has more important things to deal with at the moment besides proving the existence of extraterrestrials.

I find it really sad that people put so much faith in this man. This guy started off with good intentions, yes. He IS responsible for gathering credible witnesses, and having rather important government contacts. Unfortunately, the shock of having all his hard work go for nothing (ie: he will NEVER get Congressional hearings) has made this man unstable. He is now just in it for money or attention or something other than pure disclosure.

If you read his latest book "Hidden Truth, Forbidden Knowledge" you will soon realize just how far he is off his rocker. He makes INCREDIBLE, IMPOSSIBLE, EXTRAORDINARY claims that would be SO INCREDIBLY EASY TO PROVE.......yet he won't prove it. He claims he can initiate contact with aliens when ever he wants...... He claims he can summon a UFO at ANY time he chooses. (How about record this Mr. Greer>?)

He claims he can levitate.....LEVITATE!~ In his book, he said that he levitated two cars at once. (Well Dr. Greer, how about you levitate around the freaking room at your next convention?? .....ya know, instead of just run your mouth.)

He and his CSETI group charge people ENORMOUS amounts of money to go hiking in the moutains and summon UFO's with them. Those people do see something (something), but it is ALWAYS at the location of CSETI's choosing. Never ever could someone take Dr. Greer to a previously undisclosed locatation and get him to summon these UFO's. The people he suckers into paying for this are PROHIBITED from bringing cameras. This screams fraud.

He claims to have been given cancer by black ops, but he conveniently cured it himself with his amazing powers of the mind. (Youhoooooo, you are a freaking DOCTOR.. why don't you focus on that and cure the million other people in this world with cancer.)


This is the man you people follow around? This is the man that you trust to open the whole world's eyes to UFO's? Dr. Greer had good intentions at one time, but after he realized he had no where else to go, he started lieing. Face it, he is a fraud just like every other person in Ufology.

You will NEVER know the truth until the people controlling the world let you know.

There is so much more our mind can do than what we have discovered yet. This planet is on the verge of blooming into a new life where this kind of stuff will become common. You can stay blind to all this or move along and enjoy it.

I'm done spending energy on close minded people, I'd rather start bringing positive ideas to all this. Working toward a common disclosure goal, instead of fighting.

Originally posted by skip_brilliantine
The likelihood of Greer or any other UFO group having the resources to afford even a single, one-time thirty-second advertising spot on national television, never mind the cost of producing the ad itself, is zero. They couldn't even swing the media buyers' fees. No matter how much he charges for his outings.

skip_brilliantine,

Thank you for your insight into this particular field.

I, however, respectfully disagree.

You are correct - initially the UFOlogy community could not do anything like the scale of those Anti-Smoking Ad's.

And, in fact, even if we had twice that money many stations would likely refuse to carry teh ad's anyway - as it is a political hot tomato.

However - I myself have worked for smaller non-profit groups who used the power of local communities - and the Internet - to spread their message in a powerful way.

Guerilla marketing - viral advertising - all these things can bring exponetial attention to one's cause.

I would also not rule out the possibility of getting some very wealthy people to help fund these marketing campaigns - don't forget many actors have been known to support non-mainstream causes.

What I am really saying is we musn't continue to take a defeatist attitude about promoting UFOlogy - but it is time rather to take it to the next level.

Greer, and frankly many of the more reliable leaders in UFOlogy, have taken us as far as they are willing to go - it's time for us to take that momentum and keep rolling with it.

And - all the while - I think it is important for us to realize that the MSM is NOT our ally - and in fact may be used to spin, harass, or even threaten the cause of full disclosure for their own political or financial agenda.

Originally posted by tock
There is so much more our mind can do than what we have discovered yet. This planet is on the verge of blooming into a new life where this kind of stuff will become common. You can stay blind to all this or move along and enjoy it.

I'm done spending energy on close minded people, I'd rather start bringing positive ideas to all this. Working toward a common disclosure goal, instead of fighting.

Tock, I am sorry you are reading some harsh truth's about a man you admire, but could you please answer a question for me? I can understand all the other excuses about not wanting to disclose his solid proof of aliens..... I mean, the reasoning makes sense to me even if I don't agree with it.

BUT, how can you explain the fact that he claims to be able to levitate his body as well as large objects......... but doesn't prove this? Don't you think he could get quite a large following of believers if he could prove he has these mental powers he claims he has? He mentions that he levitated multiple times in the book. He talks of the levitation as if it is an easy thing for him to accomplish.

Now proving you can levitate doesn't benefit anyone looking to make a buck. It doesn't put the aliens in harm's way. It isn't anything the "secret black ops" would give two freaking craps about. SO WHY NOT PROVE IT? Is there any excuse, any reason you could possibly phathom as to why he would not prove this incredible claim????

Levitate for us! Levitate on camera, in front of an audience that is allowed to interact and attempt to find out if any trickery is involved. Do it and people will follow you around like Christ and support any cause you advocate.

COME ON GREER >... DO ET~!

Originally posted by TruthMagnet
However - I myself have worked for smaller non-profit groups who used the power of local communities - and the Internet - to spread their message in a powerful way.

Guerilla marketing - viral advertising - all these things can bring exponetial attention to one's cause.

I would also not rule out the possibility of getting some very wealthy people to help fund these marketing campaigns - don't forget many actors have been known to support non-mainstream causes.

Thanks & fair enough. Just wanted to provide perspective about the cost of national ad campaigns; I agree that there are many, many other ways to skin a cat (so to speak).

Originally posted by jritzmann
I'm totally not angry, nor trying to start a fight. See, what does happen all too often is people repeating stuff they cant back up. Now, after awhile in this field, these repeated baseless stuff becomes "fact" somehow with people who arent aware of the background. At some point we have to stop repeating "factual" claims with no basis, as they dont do us any good at getting any real answers.

I hope that explains it.

Thanks for the clarification. Emailing sometimes does not communicate the full intent of what is being communicated. If I read something offensive into your previous post, I apologize.

As far as your required documentation, I myself trust Greer has it, and he will release it when he feels he is ready to do so for whatever reasons he may have. I think it's interesting he is not pulling out the big guns right at the beginning.

I understand that there are a lot of people such as yourself within the UFO community that are very skeptical of Dr Greer's work. His aim is not to please the UFO community, his focus is Disclosure and getting technology to market to make that happen.

Originally posted by jritzmann
I dont know who "Debbie" is, nor what her connection is, but I've not seen anywhere wher Greer posted his FEDEX's, nor his communications with the "arranger". Woolsey and all parties seem to have a much different viewpoint and their letter is there.

My understanding of print law is if you print something that is untrue about someone, then you can sue to clear your name. If Woolsey's claims were true, then we are going to have to assume that Greer didn't 'overstate', he 'lied'.

Then, where is the lawsuit from Woolsey or anyone else that Greer is spreading these untruths about? They aren't there. In fact Greer reprinted this story in 2006 in his latest book....

I'm not sure exactly who Debbie is, but anytime you email the address, she responds, so she must be some kind of assistant or something to Dr Greer.

Originally posted by greerISaFraud

I am shocked to see that people are still giving this guy the time of day. Greer had previously stated that he had absolute evidence of alien existence and contact, and that he'd present it. He never did. He is stringing people along.

Consider me strung.

Originally posted by greerISaFraud
(ie: he will NEVER get Congressional hearings)

It ain't over until the thinly challenged woman sings. Right now there is this problem of a war going on, and though I may tend to disagree, this seems to be the most important thing on the country's agenda.

Originally posted by greerISaFraud
He claims he can levitate.....LEVITATE!~ In his book, he said that he levitated two cars at once. (Well Dr. Greer, how about you levitate around the freaking room at your next convention?? .....ya know, instead of just run your mouth.)

He also says in his book that levitation is not all that. The highest goal would be to have Disclosure happen or get needed technologies to market. He's not an entertainer.

Originally posted by greerISaFraud
He and his CSETI group charge people ENORMOUS amounts of money to go hiking in the moutains and summon UFO's with them. Those people do see something (something), but it is ALWAYS at the location of CSETI's choosing. Never ever could someone take Dr. Greer to a previously undisclosed locatation and get him to summon these UFO's. The people he suckers into paying for this are PROHIBITED from bringing cameras. This screams fraud.
[/quote/

$600 enormous? Well, maybe if you work at McDonald's. Then, everything seems expensive.

BTW-The use of capital letters doesn't make it more expensive.

Originally posted by greerISaFraudHe claims to have been given cancer by black ops, but he conveniently cured it himself with his amazing powers of the mind. (Youhoooooo, you are a freaking DOCTOR.. why don't you focus on that and cure the million other people in this world with cancer.)
[/quote.]

What page number are you going to reference that claims he cured his cancer with his mind? I've read this book many xs, and I'm missing this part.

Debbie told me it's in remission.

Originally posted by c3hambyI'm not sure exactly who Debbie is, but anytime you email the address, she responds, so she must be some kind of assistant or something to Dr Greer.

Debbie Foch is the CSETI coordinator and Dr Greer's assistant. I meet her in Mt Shasta. She does reply to your questions when you send them to her, unlike some moderators on ATS...

[edit on 17-1-2007 by tock]

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trimmed quote to relevant paragraph

[edit on 19/1/07 by masqua]

An Uncommon Goal

Originally posted by tock
I'm done spending energy on close minded people, I'd rather start bringing positive ideas to all this. Working toward a common disclosure goal, instead of fighting.

This is a laudable goal, but I'm pretty sure championing Dr. Greer isn't the way to go about it.

What's close-minded about expecting honesty from those who would presume to "lead" the disclosure movement?

In this context, it seems to me that your definition of "close-minded" means "anyone who disagrees with Dr. Greer".

I could be wrong about Dr. Greer. I'll freely acknowledge that. Can you do the same?

What if you are wrong about Dr. Greer? Is the goal of disclosure worth risking on one man?

Personally, I think the idea that a "common goal" disclosure hinges on a self-styled cult figure like Dr. Greer is what's close-minded. I never voted for the guy, so why the rhetorical strong-arm tactics to accept him as some sort of authority?

I'm not looking for someone to tell me what my goals are. I'm just looking for the truth, and Dr. Greer has repeatedly and shamefully failed to deliver it -- all while undermining the efforts of those who are at least trying to.

Greer has the answers, just be patient.

Let's just hope he can talk before US, ISRAELI and IRAN destroy our planet.

-fred

Originally posted by Majic
An Uncommon Goal

Originally posted by tock
I'm done spending energy on close minded people, I'd rather start bringing positive ideas to all this. Working toward a common disclosure goal, instead of fighting.

This is a laudable goal, but I'm pretty sure championing Dr. Greer isn't the way to go about it.

What's close-minded about expecting honesty from those who would presume to "lead" the disclosure movement?

In this context, it seems to me that your definition of "close-minded" means "anyone who disagrees with Dr. Greer".

I could be wrong about Dr. Greer. I'll freely acknowledge that. Can you do the same?

What if you are wrong about Dr. Greer? Is the goal of disclosure worth risking on one man?

Personally, I think the idea that a "common goal" disclosure hinges on a self-styled cult figure like Dr. Greer is what's close-minded. I never voted for the guy, so why the rhetorical strong-arm tactics to accept him as some sort of authority?

I'm not looking for someone to tell me what my goals are. I'm just looking for the truth, and Dr. Greer has repeatedly and shamefully failed to deliver it -- all while undermining the efforts of those who are at least trying to.

Well, accusing someone just because you can't believe what is says , that's been close minded. You could simply say, it's hard to believe, but you don't need to go all out saying he can't do what he says because you can't.

You could have called NASA of fraud cause they didn't land on the moon. Did you see armstrong put the foot on the moon? You didn't. You saw a TV show showing him doing it. You have no way to know if it was faked...

Hard To Believe

Originally posted by tock
Well, accusing someone just because you can't believe what is says , that's been close minded. You could simply say, it's hard to believe, but you don't need to go all out saying he can't do what he says because you can't.

You might want to review what I've actually posted, because this is a straw man argument that doesn't actually reflect my opinions.

My criticisms of Dr. Greer are directed at the numerous gross logical fallacies inherent to claims he has made, demonstrable falsehoods in his stories, the damage he has caused to the credibility of the UFO community and his propensity to follow the career path of a typical UFO huckster.

Belief has nothing to do with it.

Meanwhile, using terms like "close minded" to describe those who disagree with you is an example of ad hominem argument, which is poor form and proves nothing.

It's okay for us to disagree about Dr. Greer, and clearly we do, but it's not necessary to label one another in lieu of offering convincing arguments to support our opinions.

For what it's worth, though I have many unflattering things to say bout him, if Dr. Greer were to become a member of ATS and make his case here, I would afford him the same respect due any other member.

But I'm not going to think more highly of him simply because someone who doesn't know me calls me close-minded.

I never accused you, but the other poster.

You are coming with valid points that can be discussed. I couldn't say the same from the user called GreerIsAFraud which obviously created that secondary account cause he's too chicken to post on him main account. Account made solely to attack Dr Greer without any foundations. To me, that's worthless bashing.

Originally posted by tock
I never accused you, but the other poster.

You are coming with valid points that can be discussed. I couldn't say the same from the user called GreerIsAFraud which obviously created that secondary account cause he's too chicken to post on him main account. Account made solely to attack Dr Greer without any foundations. To me, that's worthless bashing.

I second that. If I were a mod I would ban user names that are inflamatory. They probably dont give a crap though, unless its their name being ridiculed. Whoever made that user name is a coward, along with anyone who makes aliases to start crap (about anyone).

[edit on 17-1-2007 by Unplugged]

Originally posted by Unplugged

Originally posted by tock
I never accused you, but the other poster.

You are coming with valid points that can be discussed. I couldn't say the same from the user called GreerIsAFraud which obviously created that secondary account cause he's too chicken to post on him main account. Account made solely to attack Dr Greer without any foundations. To me, that's worthless bashing.

I second that. If I were a mod I would ban user names that are inflamatory. They probably dont give a crap though, unless its their name being ridiculed. Whoever made that user name is a coward, along with anyone who makes aliases to start crap (about anyone).

[edit on 17-1-2007 by Unplugged]

The mods are Biased. It actually serves as support to see other users doing crap like this. Last time I checked, Majic was a super moderator and I even complained to ATS with no answers...? .. oh well...

Pain And Inflammation

Originally posted by Unplugged
If I were a mod I would ban user names that are inflamatory.

The definition of "inflammatory" is somewhat subjective.

When dealing with any issue like this involving a member account, we try to be fair, and that can take time.

Please be patient -- and don't forget, if you see anything that seems to violate the T&C, it only takes a few moments to submit a Complaint.

Better To Give Than To Receive

Originally posted by Unplugged
They probably dont give a crap though, unless its their name being ridiculed.

You're free to speculate all you want, but I'm not sure what the point is in this case.




Edit: tock, please read the U2U I sent you again. Grousing about "moderator bias" and receiving no response after having actually received my U2U doesn't make a very convincing point.

[edit on 1/18/2007 by Majic]

I posted before reading your U2U and my complain was filed yesterday night.
24 hrs to reply is a long turn around, isn't?

No worries, we see how much the staff cares really.