Murdered Black Entertainers: No Justice

Originally posted by Spawwwn
tupac and biggie ... They might have done some criminal activity before their death, but that was the only life they knew.

That's a poor excuse. 'the only life they knew' is an excuse for criminal behavior? No. They had money. They weren't desperate on the street people looking for food. There is no excuse.

You don't think there is a vast majority of law enforcement whites that are racist? Lol i guess you must sit with the KKK

Nope. I'm your average stay at home mom. And as far as racist cops go .. I already said that, outside of the deep south where I know that there is deep racism, I have no idea about that and it would make a good subject for a thread.

My man you are quite uneducated about rap music...
shows your ignorance about the subject.

I'm a girl.

I can't stand rap 'music'. And as far as me being ignorant about the subject .. perhaps. But I've read enough lyrics from rap to see that it's definately NOT what I want my child listening to and it is definately NOT healthy.

Hip hop is just a new version of that anger. Instead of talking about daily lynchings, they were talking about police shootings.

... and why would someone be shot by the police .. hmmm let me see .. because they were engaged in a crime?

You might not see them as heroes becuase it's obvious you have no sense of black culture.

So what if I don't know 'black culture'. (You are the one segregating yourself by the way) A hero is a hero. A doctor who finds a cure for disease; an astronaut who goes into space to research science and to help us understand the universe we live in; a brave man who enters politics to make changes through the legal system (Harold Ford Jr.) THOSE are heros .. not people jumping around in clothing that doesn't fit, acting all mad, and having women wearing little (if anything) and jiggling around.

You say I don't understand black culture .. I say you don't understand what real hero is.

keep in mind people were still segregated as early as 50 years ago.

So what? That has nothing to do with a 12 year old kid learning that a 'hero' is someone who looks and acts angry and gets jiggly women to dance around him all the while blaming the white guy for all his troubles.

your telling me after centuries of abuse (yes i DO mean slavery...) that the black community is supposed to forgive and forget overnight?

Slavery ended over a hundred and fifty years ago. That's long past 'over night'. Black people weren't the only ones on the planet to be enslaved and/or mistreated. Yes... get over it.

Even in 2007 most black individuals belive that whites truley don't care about them. How does it make you feel that you are proving them right, at least on some level?

I don't care.

I already told you that it wasn't a 'black' thing. It's a 'I don't care if criminals kill themselves or each other' thing. But you choose to think it's a 'black' thing. So .. whatever.

Until whites stop blaming the blacks for being to angry, and honestly look at the reason why they have so much anger...nothing in the world will ever change.

Until blacks stop blaming whites for all their problems and honestly look at the reason why white people don't care when black people whine about things that are the black person's own fault .. nothing in the world will ever change.



[edit on 1/5/2007 by FlyersFan]

I suggest we all read this --- and then begin discussion.

amren.com...


The National Crime Victimization Survey can be used to determine how much violent crime blacks commit against whites and vice versa--Its's not a question of black and white --purple or green ---red and pink--.


Wake up it is all about being HUMAN and careing and humanity.


Do the right thing and give a HUG.

Originally posted by Spawwwn


As for the white rappers being killed...that's not my burden. If you want to challenge the points i've made, then the burden is on YOU to come up with examples and show them to me. That's the whole point of rebuttal. If you think i made a point and disaggree, then the burden of proof is on you to show me facts to back your rebuttal up. So find me some articles of white rappers who have been shot and their murders go unsolved..that's not my job..And i never said black people kill black people and it's the white mans fault. even now you are not listening to me. I said that it seems strange that many famous blacks will be murdered...yet their cases remain unsolved.
edit on 5-1-2007 by Spawwwn]

No mate. You cited some unsolved murders and compared them to an imagined event (plus a whole bunch of your own prejudices and beliefs). So far you've made half a point.

That's not the basis for a serious discussion.

Rather than tell us what you THINK, why don't you provide some actual evidence of what's actually going on?

That way we can consider it rather than just respond on the basis of emotion / our 'feelings'.

Sorry to be pedantic and all that but that's how this board works.

BTW you did say these crimes were unsolved as 'whitey' police couldn't be arsed to investigate so you have actually implied it's 'white' people's fault they're unsolved.

As I and others have pointed out there are other, closer to home, explanations you've failed to acknowledge.

Crimes do not go cold because of the color of the victim's skin. Crimes go cold due to lack of evidence and/or suspects. Law enforcement agents are not perfect. They miss things, and screw things up. Not on purpose, but because they are human and often overworked.

Does racism exist? Absolutely, however, accusing the police of racism for cold cases seems a bit much. Most cops hate to leave a case open. They get a tremendous feeling of accomplishment whenever they close one. If it were about race, they could just slap a patsy with they charges and railroad the case closed. The fact that it is still open does not mean it has been forgotten.

lets go back to the heros thing and not understanding black culture...

hmmmm your black heros seem to be rappers, some engaged in gang activity at times, living or at least portraying the "thug" life...

funny you don't mention...

Malcom X
MLK


couldn't they be considered black heros....

Rosa Parks..... Harriet Tubman

lets get back into entertainment..

Will Smith... rapper/singer .....

Originally posted by elevatedone
funny you don't mention...
MLK, Rosa Parks, Harriet Tubman, Will Smith

AND - Fredrick Douglas, Dr. Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Harold Ford Junior,
Black American War Heroes , Jackie Robinson, Mae Jemison (my daughter loves her) and other black astronauts , Hank Aaron, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, Arthur Ashe, Josephine Baker, Count Basie, Edward C. Brooke, Gwendolyn Brooks, James Brown, Ron Brown, Eldridge Cleaver, Johnnie Cochren, Nat “king” Cole, Bill Cosby, Sammy Davis Junior, W.E.B. DuBois, Duke Ellington, Ella Fitzerald, Aretha Franklin, Marcus Garvey, Woopie Goldberg, Bryant C. Gumbel, Alex Haley, Jimi Hendrix, Lena Horne. “Magic” Johnson., BB King, Thurgood Marshall, Jesse Owens, Betty Shabazz, Denzel Washington, Oprah Winfrey, Tiger Woods
Andrew Young, etc etc etc

Plenty of non gansta heroes out there. Plenty who don't pound rhythmic anger into kids all day long.

I am quite disgusted by Spawwwn's remarks. My father, a WHITE, POLICE OFFICER, nearly became my deceased father as he risked his life off duty to prevent a BLACK boy being stabbed to death. It is only because of my father that his brother who suffered serious stab wounds didnt die. He was in no danger of anyone and could have walked away however, he decided to help out of the kindness of his heart.

I know many many people who live in white "ghettos" who have been stabbed, burgled, robbed, beaten up, nearly killed etc. Some are my friends and people I associate with but the life they live and the way they behave leads me to say they had it coming to them. Do you really think the police want to help someone who has for many many years abused them whether it be verbally or physically?

I am more than qualified to talk about hip hop music seeing as I am a hip hop dj and have well over 1000 hip hop albums (to some its not alot but mine are all owned legally so I can sleep at night). In most people's eyes murder, stealing, violence, drugs etc. is very wrong and is not acceptable. The rap industry is seen to promote all of these things. You just have to look at gangsta rap to see many of these subjects being rapped about. I dont know what all the police officers feel but I know that my father and many of his colleagues are far from racist. However, would you really want to try and help solve the murder of someone who says about how he killed someone / beat someone up / sold drugs when many consider them disgusting crimes. I know for a fact this is true when white people who are involved in crime or associate with those who do become victims and the police do nothing.

I feel no sympathy for criminals who are hurt / killed whether they are white, black or any colour. When you enter into such a "world" you have to fully accept that you may be hurt. Just like if I was to get into a fight I would fully accept that I could be stabbed or killed.

There could be a million and one reasons why black rappers are killed. We, the public dont know what really happened in their lives and what crimes they really did commit. But when they say they sold drugs and killed their enemies it does not make them look good. I can fully understand why the police dont want to waste their time on "self confessed" criminals whether they be white, black or whatever. I can also see the police not particularly wanting to solve the murders of members of organized crime gangs e.g. the mafia. The police may view these people who say they are criminals as scum and would you waste your time on a scumbag?

I find it deeply disturbing that you could find anyone who raps about such content matter as an idol. There are certain rappers who I respect and they never disguss violence or seem to promote it.

I would rather the police spend their time trying to help law abiding people than people who claim they have done xxxx crime. I dont think the majority of the police is racist they just dont want to spend their time helping what they consider as low lifes. I sure as hell wouldnt want to solve the murder of a drug dealer / someone who claims he is when I see girls offering blow jobs for crack due to their addiction to it.

If the people rapping about crime are actaully law abiding people then they do deserve to have their murders investigated. However, many people dont know the hip hop industry that well and I understand their unwillingness to fully investigate the crimes.

[edit on 5-1-2007 by Sceptical_Alien]

[edit on 5-1-2007 by Sceptical_Alien]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by elevatedone
funny you don't mention...
MLK, Rosa Parks, Harriet Tubman, Will Smith

AND - Fredrick Douglas, Dr. Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Harold Ford Junior,
Black American War Heroes , Jackie Robinson, Mae Jemison (my daughter loves her) and other black astronauts , Hank Aaron, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, Arthur Ashe, Josephine Baker, Count Basie, Edward C. Brooke, Gwendolyn Brooks, James Brown, Ron Brown, Eldridge Cleaver, Johnnie Cochren, Nat “king” Cole, Bill Cosby, Sammy Davis Junior, W.E.B. DuBois, Duke Ellington, Ella Fitzerald, Aretha Franklin, Marcus Garvey, Woopie Goldberg, Bryant C. Gumbel, Alex Haley, Jimi Hendrix, Lena Horne. “Magic” Johnson., BB King, Thurgood Marshall, Jesse Owens, Betty Shabazz, Denzel Washington, Oprah Winfrey, Tiger Woods
Andrew Young, etc etc etc

Plenty of non gansta heroes out there. Plenty who don't pound rhythmic anger into kids all day long.

But all of those people are "oreos" as was put earlier in the post. Black on the outside, white on the inside. Its obvious the culture in black america today has pushed these role models away because of some racism against the "white man." If a person becomes successful, and does not show the "thug life" they are considered faux black.

As for the slavery thing, you know,

1) your own tribes chieftains sold you out, and have been running the slave trade for many centuries all throughout Africa.

and

2) Almost every race, every culture, has been, or has some slavery issues in theyre past, namely where they were held as slaves. Africans, Mayans, Romans, Hebrews, English, American.

As of right now, there are many many people, namely white 15-23 year old women who are shanghaied out of nightclubs and off the street and sold into the white slave trade, where they are forcibly put in foreign brothels and other dungeon like sheds, forced to spend theyre rest of theyre lives as a sex toy, and when they inevitabally get pregnant, the child is further born into the life of slavery, still today.

Is there any justice for them? Is it the cops fault for not rescuing them? The majority of these incidents happen within the carribean islands. Should we blame the black people that live there? should they have to pay?



[edit on 1-5-2007 by WolfofWar]

The rap culture is probably the biggest aspect of life keeping racism alive. White hatred against blacks is a rare issue anymore, but black hatred against whites is commonplace. It is allowed, even rewarded, in the music industry.

Many murders go “unsolved” when the victims & participants are immersed in such a culture (drugs, mafia, etc). I am hardly going to grieve over a bunch of thugs that cared so little about anything before their deaths. Even calling the “murders” implies that too much caring, as they were just stats of their thug ness.

FlyersFan is the smartest voice I have seen on these boards in months.

As I've stated before, this ball can go back and forth for the rest of eternity, but that does not change a single thing, because we see all of these things with both black and whites alike.

Evil knows no color, nor does it know no race. Profiling, Stereotyping, racism, it's all human nature, it's the bad kind of human nature. We need to move forward and change and that change only starts when the smallest domino falls from the stack, it doesn't need to be that one domino that trickles down the whole stack and causes an instant, visible change for the permanent.

Things are changing as the decades go on and will continue to do so. We have to keep finding those little small dominoes and knocking them down best we could because it's happening, but we're not noticing it and we won't notice the major change at all because it probably won't even be in our generation.

Only time can tell, we need to give it time. I live on Long Island, New York and Racism almost isn't even a factor because of where I live and the people that exist on this island and their attitudes. There is still hope and always will be hope; we need to get off our arses and ascertain that hope and give it to others, because not everyone sees it and not everyone will. Make the change.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
The rap culture is probably the biggest aspect of life keeping racism alive.

When impressionable youths have anger and hate of white people rhythmically pounded into them day after day, week after week, year after year .. guess what? They are going to hate white people and they are not going to want to integrate into society. You are exactly right Jake.

but black hatred against whites is commonplace.

I see it all the time. But of course it's politically correct and okay when it's a black person hating white people because it's 'understandable' or it's 'their culture' or whatever ...

The only racist hatred on this thread was spoken by the author - calling all white police racists and mud dwelling pigs. But it's okay because he's black. Right?

This thread has totally devolved into a 'what's wrong with black people' rant. Thanks for derailing what could have been a good conversation. The majority of you are talking about everything but the original post.

Again, why do we pay the police? Oh-- that's right-- to protect us and to, God forbid, investigate our murders. I say, let's encourage them to hop to it.

All this discussion about bringing it on yourself has nothing to do with investigating a crime. Would you say that to a rape victim?

Originally posted by elevatedone
you don't mention...

Malcom X
MLK

That is a good point.

couldn't they be considered black heros....

whose murders have gone unsolved.

Maybe you should start a thread of your own. If you put a link here, I bet people will come.

Originally posted by WolfOfWar
If a person becomes successful, and does not show the "thug life" they are considered faux black.

Wrong. Living the "thug life" doesn't make you a part of the black community. Caring about the fates and destinies of other black people not as fortunate as you... that's what makes you a part of the community (and why some white people are accepted too).

From my own experience, I'm certainly not a "thug," in any sense of the word, but I am fully accepted by my peers, simply because they know I'm not actively trying to distance myself from them ideologically. They know I'm 'down' for them and that I care what happens to them, I just happen to be 'bookish'. Actually, I'm starting a book club for teenage girls this month, in my neighborhood. That's one of the ways I show I care, not by gang-banging, but by sharing pieces of myself. (People who know me would laugh with wild abandon if they even knew I had just used 'gang-banging' in a sentence. That's how little that stuff means to 'being black.')

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
This thread has totally devolved into a 'what's wrong with black people' rant.

Again, why do we pay the police? Oh-- that's right-- to protect us and to, God forbid, investigate our murders. I say, let's encourage them to hop to it.

wrong... not whats wrong with black people... but more about rappers - gangsters or whatever you want to call them, being pointed out as what they were..... "thugs"....


The murders were investigated.... it was documented in the opening post and as stated later... not all murders are going to be solved....

would you rather the police spend 5 years tring to figure out who killed a person, or spend a reasonable amount of time on it and then getting back on the streets to maybe... prevent another murder?

sorry....

[edit on 5-1-2007 by elevatedone]

sorry again..... browswer issues...


[edit on 5-1-2007 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Again, why do we pay the police? ... to protect us

I’d rather they spent their time protecting us innocent people from the criminals rather than protecting the criminals from each other.

God forbid, investigate our murders. I say, let's encourage them to hop to it.

They do investigate. Some cases can't be solved. Black, white, red, yellow, purple with pink polka dots .. whatever color …. Some can’t be solved.

The author of this thread was complaining because the case black football star who got murdered 4 days ago wasn't solved. I reminded him that JonBennet Ramsey happened 10 years ago and it still hasn't been solved.

All this discussion about bringing it on yourself has nothing to do with investigating a crime. Would you say that to a rape victim?

Rape victims don't ask for it. Criminals (no matter what the color), do. I still don't care if a criminal gets killed by another criminal. I'm being honest. I just don't care - no matter what color they are.

whose murders have gone unsolved.

The MLK murder was solved.

Malcolm X said that the streets of America should turn red with the blood of white people. I really don't care who killed him. But anyways – three members of the Nation of Islam were convicted, and one of those actually confessed.

www.brothermalcolm.net...


[edit on 1/5/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Wrong. Living the "thug life" doesn't make you a part of the black community. Caring about the fates and destinies of other black people not as fortunate as you... that's what makes you a part of the community (and why some white people are accepted too).

Ah, but theyre current role models with the youth in theblack community. Just as rock stars and movie celebrities are the role models for the youth in the white community. The younger generations are now wrapped in the "thug life" under the impression that its the "black culture and lifestyle." Remember, these are role models to kids, poor role models. If kids grow up hearing, for example, 50 cent saying Oprahs not really black, and they grow up seeing these role models and celebrities doing all this "thug life" stuff, it does become the icon of the culture. What you suggested, caring about the fates and destinies of black people not as fortunate as you, is an ideal community identity, and even if it exists somewhat within the black community, its slowly fading away as many of the positive role models are ostricized and thrown out of the spectrum to be made way for these hip hop anti-heroes.

I mean, look at the craze with white women and the look to be ultra skinny. Figures like Paris hilton, Nicole Richie, Tara Reid, Lindsey Lohan, are these girls role models, and so they try to immitate them. The ultra skinny look becomes the status quo and the identity of what they BELIEVE they should be.

Live like a thug, die like a thug.
I think these rappers need to keep up the good work. I say give them all guns.......
Twenty years from now the majority of them will be dead and so will rap.
It's a repugnant form of entertainment I'd love to see die out.

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
The rap culture is probably the biggest aspect of life keeping racism alive. White hatred against blacks is a rare issue anymore, but black hatred against whites is commonplace. It is allowed, even rewarded, in the music industry.

So true. When will the idiots running the music industry realize this and kill this form of music? Stomp it out. They did it to rock music over the last 10 years. Let's see rap dead and buried forever (at least in the popular mainstream). personally, I think it's having a very harmful influence over the younger generation.

Yeah, I really don't think racism is the problem for some of these murder cases going unsolved. Like someone mentioned before, witnesses need to come forward and cooperate with the police. The hip hop culture has an "us against them" mentality with the police. You cannot deny this.

Also, if you listen to the content of the majority of hip hop or gangster rap its about the representing of your hood and or gang. Pimpin hoes and slappin bitches and slangin rock. Bustin caps in a$$es. Like Jay Z says, " I got 99 problems and a bitch aint one of em".

It boils down to the social ingnorance and irresponsibility by the majority of very influential hip hop artists. Jay Z, 50 cent, Eminem. Granted not all hip hop artists are preaching hate, murder and degradation of women.