2008 Conservative Presidential Candidates

My bad the war on conception is being waged be what appears to be a minority of extremist Christians the same people that oppose Abortion also oppose making condoms available in schools e.t.c . Here is a link to a brief overview of what I'm talking about . Currently the social debate is focused on abortion rather then conception but if abortion is outlawed conception will be next followed by an women's right to vote.

If you want to worship a non existent high power that is your business but I want no bar of it no matter what label you put on it and the church and the state should always remain separate.

Originally posted by xpert11
My bad the war on conception

I think you mean contraception.

My mistake and apologies .
Cheers xpert11.

I still don't think that Bllomberg wil lrun, but if he does jump in as an Independent, do you think he'd be a spoiler that hurts the Democrats? The conservative base is too demoralized and too divided to send anyone to the White House. It hurts me to say it, but I still think the GOP loses in '08. It's only a question of How Much do they lose?

Justin IMO under the right circumstances Bloomberg could split the dems vote in 2008 but at this stage there are still to many things that need to happen before Bloomberg could have any real effect on the 08 election.
The following would need to happen.

1. Someone would have to energize the Republican party core supporter base.
   
2. Republican supporters would have to rally behind a candidate .
   
3. A good chunk of the dems core supporter base would have to vote for Bloomberg .
   

Option one I just cant see happening even the thought of Hillary in the White House isnt enough to motivated and energize the Republican party core supporter base
Option two may be possible if Fred runs and I admit to being a tad optimistic.
Option three looks doubtful at this stage.

No matter who wins in 08 some things will remain the same fiscal sanity will remain a thing of the past along with the usual corruption and conflict of interest.


[edit on 24-6-2007 by xpert11]

posted by Justin Oldham
I'm all for being a good example. I'm all for a guarded tongue, too. Even so, I don't think there is a human being alive today that could never swear. As a principle, I don't see anything wrong with your point. It's something to aspire to. A life-long goal to be pursued. If a President can be dismissed for bad language, how does anyone stay employed? I understand your theological point, and I'm hoping that one day we can achieve such high ideals. Until we can, we'll just have to keep on trying.

Religion is a private matter. It is not a public spectacle unless some overzealous religionist chooses to make it that. There are very few things on this planet a person will joyfully kill another person for. Religion is one of those things. Judaism and its two step-children have all 3 been as violent and disrespectful of human life as any New Guinea cannibal ever was.

It is hard for me to think of a significant contribution by a religion that has had lasting value. Religion has a hard hold on a whole lot of people. It does not work and they know it but they studiously avoid thinking about it. A closed mind. Yet religion has billions of devotees. It seems akin to a metastasised cancer. The body politic is infected. We can’t cut it out because every organ is involved. We can’t irradiate it out because an effective dosage will kill the patient. Which leaves us with chemo-therapy. The weapon of last resort. Like a suicide bomber.

The Age of Enlightenment - different times at different places - but primarily in the 18th century, offered hope of religion’s imminent demise. But alas, the hope was forlorn.

Fundamentalist religion is almost universally allied with conservative thinking people. “Conservative” as used here to mean only those wh resist change. Any change. All change. Advocates of the status quo. It goes unspoken those self same people have settled into an advantageous economic niche. Reminiscent to me of the holders of the Seldon Patent. Before Henry Ford ignored it then defeated it in court. See Foot Note.

Sam Harris wrote that only a very small number of people actually believe in a God; like a magician who can turn water into wine. Or defy gravity and walk on water. A genuine magic act. Which if true events, had surprisingly little or no visible effect on the observers. That leads me to think the author was writing fiction? And, I believe his audience knew that. But they liked a good story as much as we do. We are the ones who added a divine source to the old stories, elevating them to a status irrefutable by the facts.

But Harris also says a very large number of people believe in believing in God. Without his permission, I place J/O in this classification, subject to his right of rejection or modification. Like most people, religious or not, we want to be and to do “better” whatever that is. When the ever elusive and ethereal element of life irretrievably departs from the ultra complex chemical processing plant we call humans, we want to be remembered as a “good” person.

But let’s be honest for a minute. Who in 2107, will know (or care) you ever existed? Does that mean you missed the immortality gig? Unlike Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Jonas Salk, Isaac Newton and Abraham Lincoln who will never be forgotten? Hmm?

Almost everyone over 7 or 8 years of age knows religion is a fake. IMO. But it serves enough of us well enough to keep it. Religiosity allows our thoughts to dwell more on the here and now - free marketeers - and less on the day after tomorrow - pure altruism. What’s good for others is good for me be our mantra?

People in power find religion useful. It was as true then under Emperor Constantine as it is today under Bush43. It represents an element of control over society. Republican politics beginning with Reagan and his link with end-time Evangelicals are like a two horse team. One hand washes the other. Us outsiders only wonder which is the wheel horse? Under Bush43 the hard line religionists have dipped their grubby hands deep into the public treasury. They have influenced - infected - public policy with their own narrow vision of the world in matters of science and medicine. And civil liberties, anathema to both Bush43 and the RRs.

So which conservative politician seeking the 2008 GOP nomination is willing to openly embrace this cadre of modern day Christian Crusaders? Determined single issue voters. The contemporary successors to the 19th Century’s American Party a/k/a the “Know-nothings.” James Dobson is lurking on the ski slopes of Colorado, waiting to take Jerry Falwell’s place.

Pat Robertson is so looney that even the 700 Club is thinking about changing its name to “350 Club.” Half of the beguiled are gone. And that old black and white tv fraud, Oral Roberts, him of the 800 foot cross, him of the $7 million gift or go home to Jesus, when is that old faker going to “go home” to collect his reward? I find it odd how those folks who speak so lovingly from the pulpit of “being in the bosom of Abraham (Jesus)” yet, when they have the opportunity, they say “No thanks.”

Finally, we have really ruled out knowing anything at all about GOD. We say GOD is infinite. We humans admit we are finite. The finite cannot know the infinite. That is by definition. By convention. To extent we claim to know GOD, that is, to the extent GOD is knowable, He is finite. He is no longer infinite and so, no longer GOD. Ipso facto, the finite cannot know the infinite.


FOOT NOTE: After many years of hard work coupled with genius, Dayton’s Wilbur and Orville Wright made the first powered flight at Kitty Hawk, NC, in December, 1903. Others especially in France were at work with the same goal. Flight began in France in the 1700s, with hot air balloons flying over Paris. The Wright brothers were glider pilots of some skill. Glenn H. Curtiss of New York, backed by Alexander Graham Bell, was also an early pioneer in powered flight, with his first plane, an amphibian, lifting off in 1908.

The Wright brothers filed for a US patent as had George Seldon for automobiles. The Wright Flyer as they christened it, had one very serious deficiency. Airplanes move in 3 axes. Pitch, up and down, is controlled by the elevators. Turning left or right, called yaw, is controlled by the rudder, and roll, dipping one wing, raising the other, is today controlled by aerialrons. The Wright Flyer employed a complex system of ropes and pulleys to actually bend the wingtips up and down to give the Flyer roll control. By 1908 Curtiss had adopted the French improvement of movable planes (wings), called an aerialron. Still in use.

The Wright brothers were wary of the adverse effect adding aerialrons to the Flyer would have on the validity of their patent application. Because all other airplane pioneers and manufacturers had adopted the vastly superior moveable aerialron to control roll and the Wright’s patent claim utilized the “bent wingtips” method, they were precluded from modernizing their own planes. Their patent application was eventually defeated by the same lawyers who had defeated the Seldon patent, also financed by Henry Ford who had met and liked Glenn Curtiss. The Wrights made a total of 13 Flyers and Glenn Curtiss made 3,000 ‘Jennys,’ the plane of War 1 fame. Curtiss bought the Wright’s “rights” and “name” and formed Curtiss-Wright Company. END.

Q. Is GOD For War or For Peace? How Can You Tell?

Top 20 Wars of the 20th Century

World War Two, 1937-1945, (Japan invaded China in 1937)
World War One, 1914-1918,
Korean War, 1950-1953,
Chinese Civil War, 1945-1949,
Vietnam War, 1965-1973,
Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988,
Russian Civil War, 1918-1921,
French Indo-China, 1945-1954,
Mexican Revolution, 1911-1920,
Spanish Civil War, 1936-1939,
French Algerian War, 1954-1962,
Afghanistan USSR War, 1980-1989,
Russo-Japanese War, 1904-1905,

See users.erols.com/mwhite28/war-list.htm for remaining wars on list.

In the 20th century, the world has been free of major wars
(Note year dates are inclusive).
1901-1903 - 3 years
1906-1913, 8 years
1922-1935, 13 years
1963-1964, 2 years
1974-1979, 6 years
1990, 1 year
1992-1996, 5 years
1998-2000, 3 years.

Total Free of War Years, 41.

If you assume GOD is in control fo the Universe, which means that it does what HE wills it to do, then GOD prefers war, 59 to 41 in the 100 years of the 20th Century.

A. GOD prefers War!

[edit on 6/24/2007 by donwhite]

Well, now. Looks like the fund-raising numbers are not so good for the Republicans, in general. McCain, in particular, is reported to have just two million dollars left in his back pocket. We are now all left to wait and see if Fred Thompson doesn't jump in. As you guys and gals come back from you0r 4th of July break, let's hear your new round of worries and predictions.

Well I have followed things as best as I can from where I am and not a lot has happened recently until Bush pardoned Lewis Libby. Now I have never formed an clear opinion about the Libby case due to my mixed feelings on the matter . I felt that there was an political element to Libby trial . However any reasonable person must concluded that the naming of an CIA agent is a more serious a crime then what the Republicans attempted to impeach Clinton for. So the leaking of an CIA agents ID could hardly be ignored.

So I don't really know what stance the Republican candidates should take on the issue. What has puzzled me the most is the timing of pardon surely it would have been better to have the focus on Bush talks with Putin and there outcome rather then adding to an scandal that has twisted the knife in the deep wounds of the Bush admin.

I think that Bush's peope carefully chose their date of commutation for Libby. Most of us Americans are on vacation just now, so the news will 0be slow to get around. As for Libby's indictment, he was found guilty of lying to the jury, and I'm satisfied that he did. He was not, in point of fact, found to be guilty of "outting" anyone. As convicted, his crime was purgery and I'm not happy to see him get off the hook. I'm wondering if that 'reward' was a payoff for keeping his big beak shut for other reasons.

Hmm there is certainly some interesting points to chew on.
IMO in the present day due to the 24 hour news media and the internet it is no longer possible for news to spread slowly no matter when the information is leaked or released to the media.

When you stop and think about it, they chose well. Making this happen over a holiday break will allow it to sneak past a lot of peole. Most of the radio personalities are on break, too. They'll talk about this after they get back, and I'm sure that a lot of people will write or phone Congress about it...as they should.

Justin your not wrong the news travels quickly but due to there being an public holiday coming up in the US people wont be in the mood or an position to digest the news of Libby pardon.

Here in the United States, we are celebrating our Independence Day. I am pleased to be surrounded by family, friends, and advisors. My inner circle has convened for a simple observance, and we'll be talking to members of the extended network by phone and internet. I'd like to take this opportunity to wish all of you a happy 4th no matterw here you are. Freedom, no matter how you define it, is something that we all want. America faces troubling times just now, but I remain resolved to do my part to help my fellow citizens get through it.

Rn Paul is the only one that can turn this Titanic around before it hits an iceberg. If he don't win expect the North American Union, the Amero, FEMA Camps, War in Iran, Syria, and probably one of the former soviet republics.

The day they swear in Hillary as president is the day I become a Costa Rican Permanent Resident. And since they own the Media, the ballot boxes and the Courts I would assume Hillary. Only one thing I don't think they saw coming... AL GORE, it appears as if Al is ging to jum in according to the rumors and news.

Al Gore cancels all events for 6mobths.

Theindependentjournal I would start packing your bags about now because I just cant see Ron winning the Republican nomination aside from the fact that he is an Libertarian the powers that be wouldn't want him to be elected. The powers that be will always go out of there way to ensure that corporate gravy train never ends and that the interests of an minority rule over that of the majority.

As for Al Gore his son was arrested so he might be taking time out to deal with the personal front. The other possibility is that he is preparing an late run to upset the apple set.

link

Originally posted by Theindependentjournal
Ron Paul is the only one that can turn this Titanic around before it hits an iceberg. If he don't win expect the North American Union, the Amero, FEMA Camps, War in Iran, Syria, and probably one of the former soviet republics. The day they swear in Hillary as president is the day I become a Costa Rican Permanent Resident. And since they own the Media, the ballot boxes and the Courts I would assume Hillary. Only one thing I don't think they saw coming . . AL GORE, it appears as if Al is going to run in according to the rumors and news.

Originally posted by xpert11
Theindependentjournal I would start packing your bags about now because I just cant see Ron winning the Republican nomination aside from the fact that he is an Libertarian the powers that be wouldn't want him to be elected. The powers that be will always go out of there way to ensure that corporate gravy train never ends and that the interests of an minority rule over that of the majority. As for Al Gore his son was arrested so he might be taking time out to deal with the personal front. The other possibility is that he is preparing an late run to upset the apple set.
link

Costa Rica at one time did not have an extradition treaty with the US. A lot of American tax evaders ended their lives in Costa Rica. Panama did not have one either but Manuel Noriega found that was no real help to him. He continues to reside in the basement of the Federal Courthouse in Miami.

Ron Paul has the proverbial snowball’s chance of
A) winning any major party’s nomination, and
B) being elected to any national office in the US.

On Gore’s family problems, does that leave Chelsea Clinton as the only child of the current RULERS or recent rulers of America who is not in conflict with the law of the land? Does that indicate real family values and point towards parental success? Hmm?

[edit on 7/8/2007 by donwhite]

Family values is an very loosely defined idea that the Republican party uses to panda to the RR. As Don pointed out earlier family values didn't exactly make it into the doomed emigration bill. At best family values is pandering to the RR at worst its an idea that could do little more then set women back towards the stone age .

I would rather that my political leaders spend there time dealing with the economy and national security rather then preaching anything like family values.

In the American context, family values means a lot to the average voter. He have always held dear the notion that our elected leaders should somehow be better than we are on a moral and ethical level. There is an unspoken expectation that our leaders should be more honest, less addicted, and less adulterous than therest of us.

This tradition goes back to the founding of the nation. It was born of a convenient lie that was easily repeated by journalists of the period who did not have the benefit of rapid communications. In the wake of a successful revolution, Liberal and Conservative candidates cast themselves as being better men than they really were. Crimes, vices, and infidelities were all denied. We bought it, and that lie has now become one of the many threads that ho9ld our social fabric together. We want honest, and we want it now.

I hold NZ politicians to high standard as well its just that I judge them based on policy rather then there personal lives unless they have committed an criminal offence. Justin I grasped what are saying but it does seem at odds with the people who are defending the outing of an CIA agent ID . If there was no wrong doing there would have been no reason for Libby to commit perjury.

Oh well I will chalk this one down to the differnt cultural mind set Americans have to the rest of the western world.

The purgery test is one of our oldest and simplest legal concepts. When Mr. Libby's story didn't match the one told by everyone whom his lawyer called to the stand...he got spanked. the actually matter of Valery Plames covert status is still a matter of some debate here in America. The mere fact that her name came up at all seems to be enough to get some people mad. Having failed his purgery test, Mr. Libby was due for an appeal. The fact that Mr. Bush decided to move before that appeal does strongly suggest that there is a lot of bad stuff going on that we don't know about.