Is this what the war on terror means ?

They never built a bomb, never hijacked an airliner and, as far as the U.S. Justice Department can determine, never made any plans to commit an act of terrorism.
But the local Yemeni-Americans known as the "Lackawanna Six" are all going to prison, in a case that has ignited much debate over the Bush administration's war against terrorism.

link

I am not a US citizen, so i dont know much about this case. Whats the general word on the street bout this case, coz it stinks to me.

~Messiah~

I have no problem with this.

Why would they visit this training camp ? just for the experience ? I don't think so.

Regardless of why or who started what or who knew what, the US is at war. There are terrorist and they want to attack americans.

These guys were caught... before they acted, and I say good !

Just as people can't be charged for murder without at least conspiring to murder, I don't think anyone else should be, on such lame charges. I was once arrested for riding my bike behind a store that was just robbed. If it weren't for the fact that I had no items, I would've been charged with the offense. In short, you can't go around charging people for crimes they haven't yet committed...especially with no evidence! There's entirely too much of that crap being done today.

Exactly what do you want? Thought police? Next, it won't even be legal to think about killing anyone? You might as well lock me up then. There are lots of people I've thought about killing.
If you buy a gun, that means you've already decided that you may kill someone one day. Should you be arrested and imprisoned?

There are militia training camps here in the US. People aren't imprisoned for attending them. It's their right, until they do something illegal.

[Edited on 12-1-2003 by Satyr]

The six men were charged with providing material support to a terrorist organization, part of a federal statute enacted after the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995.

Earlier this year, all six men pleaded guilty in federal court.


Well the law is the law, but this is a bit out there. I guess in retrospect you can jail someone for having kiddie porn on their computers even if they havent been convicted of a sexual assualt on kids.

I am split on this one......On one hand, they did break the "LAW", on the other hand the government really never proved they had terrorist intentions.

The odd thing is that 6 who happened to attend training camp all lived near by eachother and knew eachother. Seems fishy, but not solid proof.

Dreamz

The odd thing is that 6 who happened to attend training camp all lived near by eachother and knew eachother. Seems fishy, but not solid proof.

Attending a known terrorist organizations training camps isn't or shouldn't be considered "terrorist intentions" ?

Again, any good logical reasons why they would attend this camp, other than "terrorist intentions" ?

damn it... posted the wrong quote... sorry about that.

meant to quote this

am split on this one......On one hand, they did break the "LAW", on the other hand the government really never proved they had terrorist intentions

That's like asking if there's any good reason for me to attend a gun show, isn't it? While it might make me appear to be a lunatic preparing to shoot someone, it isn't necessarily so. That's just not how America is supposed to operate.

In the case where these individuals traveled to attend these "known" terrorist camps. I still believe that they had one thing in mind and one mission.

Makes me think that they probably were supposed to be involved in an attack and once we started bombing AFGH and Iraq, they got scared and decided not to go through with it. ( total speculation of course )

I notice there's no mention of what they define as "training". Does this mean they just attended a speech? Used a firing range? Ran through tires? Climbed ropes? Exactly what is suspicious about their "training"?
I mean, I used to hang out with (and work for) people who were associated with the mob. That doesn't make me a mobster.

"Since 9/11, the public not only expects you to catch terrorists, but to catch them before they act," the former FBI agent said.

Does this mean that everyone is now a suspect? If no crime has to be committed, I'd say so.

[Edited on 12-1-2003 by Satyr]

Training....lol.....

The UK is considering passing a law which would BAN the selling of books, written by people with ties to Al Qaeda.

So in essence, if you read a book by Bin Ladin or one of his cronies, you could be 'training'

~Messiah~

Crime against association, or crime against association with a known terrorist group.

Do remember people that these men have gone to train under "Al Quida" a known terrorist group that has carried out many attacks against embassy and other targets all over the world.

The mass of this organization has used violent means to make ends meet.

In my stomach I feel that these 6 men did not go to train and come back to preach peacfully the ways of " Al Quida"

Most men trained carry out violent attacks, and personaly from the events of 9/11 the US does have a right to protect thier country from whoever they believe is a threat to thier people.

Deep

Yes, but anyone and everyone who can't prove otherwise, is Al Qaeda. It's a very murky definition. Of course, being of Arabic decent makes anyone even more suspect.
There are all kinds of people on this forum who don't like the gov't, and even study organizations that feel as they do. That doesn't mean they're terrorists.

[Edited on 12-1-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
That's like asking if there's any good reason for me to attend a gun show, isn't it? While it might make me appear to be a lunatic preparing to shoot someone, it isn't necessarily so. That's just not how America is supposed to operate.

No, it is not. There is nothing wrong with going to a gun show. Owning a gun, buying or selling a gun is not a crime, does not link to crime and is as American as apple pie. Owning a car does not mean I'm going to be a drunk driver, either. Going to a terrorist run camp, learning their tactics and soaking up their propaganda and indoctrination, on the other hand, is a pretty good piece of probable cause in my way of thinking.

Were it WWII, would you think that going to Tokyo, going through Japanese training and then coming back to the States as being a covert operative? Well, Heck yes, you would. Same thing.

You are right satyr.
But "AL QUEDA" is a known group that has used violent mean to make ends meet.
And pose a threat not only to the American Goverment, but to many other countrys aswell.
I dont approve of many goverments actions, but that does not mean that I would revert to violent means to have my voice heard.
Ghandi could have been considered a terrorist, yet used non violent means and helped liberate India from british rule.
"Blood never washes away more blood"
Deep

Right, they came to preach and hold their hands high to Allah. "Oh, we have trained" they will say. "Trained for peace, and love..."

In fact, it is well know through the Arabic world that Bin Laden and the training camps as known for the teachings of tolerance, love, sharing, caring, and gentleness.

I think everybody knows this so it is a grave injustice to convict these men. I myself went to many KKK meetings. The Klan taught me how to love all the neg...er, black people around me.

I am sure you get my point...



ps) Never in the KKK. I am Black.

[Edited on 1-12-2003 by Secado]

Well Secado, I have never heard of the "KKK" or "Al Queda" promoting peace.
But I have heard of them promoting violence on massive scales.
Im not sure where you heard this from, but from what I have personaly never heard this before.

www.kkk.com...
Some peace, read the article on Martin Luther King.
Deep

Uh, I htink you missed his sarcasm.

I didn't, and I loved it!

Man
I always do this.
Sorry, and I think He is a She.
Only a Woman would refer to God as a Woman.
Nothing wrong with that, I would rather not give a gender to Gods being though.
I honestly thought she was being serious, man.
Deep

You have a point, Secado. I don't think anyone hangs out with the KKK unless they're one of them. What bothers me is the vague definition of "training", as well as the vague definition of "terrorist". They may very well be dangerous, but we're making a huge leap in American policy when we start saying it's ok to charge people based on a hunch. It's a very slippery slide. We're talking about major freedom loss. The kind that comes from being accused of a serious crime. Hunches can get out of control. Law enforcement officers begin to get the "gut feeling" that something isn't right, and although there is no evidence, you go to jail. What the # is that? Why didn't they just keep an eye on them? Isn't that their job? If they catch them ordering bomb parts or boxcutters, then maybe they should arrest them. Doesn't anyone see how dangerous it is to you when people can be locked away without evidence?

[Edited on 12-1-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Man

I always do this.
Sorry, and I think He is a She.
Only a Woman would refer to God as a Woman.
Nothing wrong with that, I would rather not give a gender to Gods being though.
I honestly thought she was being serious, man.
Deep

No problem, He refers to Himself in the masculine form, too. Who are we to argue with Him?