Best trained in Hand-to-Hand combat...

reply to post by greenkoolaid


Well to be frank, i dont think any special forces would take the top prize on this discussion, but rather the shaolin monks of India and china instead. Also a form of martial arts called Shaolin Kempo Karate is highly skilled in that field. The Grandmaster of this style trains all kinds of special forces himself so i believe that the martial arts style would last a while in that contest as well.

100 years old tai chi and kung-fu masters, the Flying Guillotine is pretty effective but even without weapons they could kill anyone with one blow, their mastery of chi and meridian systems allow them to kill people in extraordinary ways.
Ninja masters are highly lethal too, watch Ninja Assassin, the real life ones are better.

reply to post by TheLaughingGod


you're not implying the fatal flying guillotine is real? The classic one had spinning blades inside the bell..

reply to post by depth om


It was tongue-in-cheek.

But I do believe there are all sorts of amazingly good masters everywhere out there that the world doesn't know anything about.. I'm not sure to what extent though.

What about secret 'blood sport' tournaments? Any old threads like that here on ATS?

reply to post by Blue Fox


In your post you referenced Ninja Assassin, well most of that movie has matierial from my form of martial arts and this form of martial arts is one of the most leathal ones there are.

reply to post by Blue Fox[/url] True but, and it is a very big BUT, those monks have been in training since the day they joined their monastary.

Apart from the fabled Ninja warriors of hundreds of years ago and the ancient Japanese Samurai, I know of no other equal in martial arts.

The modern soldier of today as Paddy said, just does not have the time to spend hours endlessly practicing his or her chosen martial art to the point where he or she can split a human hair whilst corkscrewing through the air to deliver a deadly killer punch.

The Shaolin Monk display which I have only seen on television is, on the whole, a form of ballet as is the martial arts seen in films.

These bear very little resemblence to the close combat of and have no place on the modern battlefield.

Please....will people STFU saying the IDF using Krav Magna, Kung Fu Monks or Ninas (lol)

The closest thing you will get to a true hand to hand fight with trained professionals (no weapons) is top level MMA.

There's not one top fighter that has a core style based on Krav Magna and I've never seen it used in any real world scenario ( IMO Krav Magna is in the same category as Akido and Kung Fu; looks great but is ineffective in a real world scenario..)

Look at the greats in MMA ; virtually all of them utilise 2 main styles which involves primarily striking and then a submission based ground technique ( which is developed to break a limb or choke the oponent unconscious.)


This striking/ground mix refelcts a real fight as unless you can guarantee a knockout using your kness, fists or shins; you will invariably end up in some sort of grapple.


Accordingly I'm going to go with Russian Army as they utilise Sambo which has a good mix of striking and submissions and has been used in MMA by the likes of Fedor and Arlovski.

This isnt to say an SAS guy or a Marine wouldnt beat a Sambo fighter but they'd need to have an equivalent level of expertise in a striking discipline of Boxing or Muay Thai mixed with a grappling discipline such as BJJ ( Brazillian Ju-Jitsu) or Submission Wrestling to stand a chance.


In an MMA style : Russian Combat Sambo takes Krav Magna/Kung Fu by Rape Choke.

If you have to choose one easily accesible style for ensuring you dont end up in hospital in a street fight....go for BJJ IMO.








[edit on 25-7-2010 by Jukiodone]

[edit on 25-7-2010 by Jukiodone]

Originally posted by Jukiodone The closest thing you will get to a true hand to hand fight with trained professionals (no weapons) is top level MMA.

Okay. I don't know this one. Who or what is this MMA?

as far as I'm concerned, MMA = Motor Mileage Allowance, eh Paddy? or Missed Meals Allowance.

[edit on 03/07/10 by fritz]

reply to post by fritz


It stands for mixed martial arts, most commonly an amalgam of wrestling, jujitsu and muay thai.

reply to post by depth om[/url] Cheers mate. I am old and easily get confused.

So this MMA is a bit like street fighting but just a bit more cultured?

With regards to the Sambo style of close combat used by SpetzNaz, may I draw all your attentions to the book 'SpetzNaz' by Viktor Sukurov.

In it, he describes in great detail some of the techniques that come together to form Sambo, not least of which is spade fighting.

Very interesting to say the least.

International Super Spies have the best training. They are like James Bond + Jackie Chan + Bruce Lee + The Terminator times 1 million.

They never lost a battle in history.

Originally posted by Jukiodone

The closest thing you will get to a true hand to hand fight with trained professionals (no weapons) is top level MMA.

Really?

So why don't they allow eye gouges, wound grabbing and tearing, clawing, biting, downward elbows, grabbing and breaking the collar bone, kicking you when you are down, head, face & chest stomps, stomping on necks and knee caps, pile drivers, grabbing clothes, spitting, breaking fingers while grappling, twisting testicles, etc... etc... etc... ?

You know, all the stuff that can happen in a true hand to hand fight.

The difference between MMA and a real fight is that MMA is a sport. They are rather secure in knowing that the other guy isn't actively trying to kill them so they can pace and judge everything with that assumption. The tecniques they train for are not generally deadly. In a real fight, it's best, and legal in most places, to assume the other guy is trying to kill you so you want to end it as fast as possible with deadly force... not sportsmanship.

reply to post by RestingInPieces


Yea even a small kid can destroy a huge man. Kick to groin, some eagle claw on the esophagus, or some eye gouging, I mean, yea the adult would be enraged and could easily over power the kid, but the human body has such weak places.

reply to post by RestingInPieces


That is a valid point and I'd respond by saying that ANYONE can poke an eye out or grab some testicles...lol.

You could teach someone that kind of fighting in a day but it takes consistent training against real oponents to master the technique that would seperate the practioner in a hand to hand scenario.

Dont get me wrong..I'm not one of these "Bruce Lee would kick Mike Tysons ass" but I couldnt see even the dirtiest of fighters lasting more than 1 minute with a pro MMA/Sambo fighter.

You go to gouge my testicles and miss...what next ??

The whole point of Sambo /BJJ is that if you do miss the quick win (which in all probability you might) you can survive it and ultimately gain an advantage ..

For those asking what MMA is : heres my boy Fedor who's a great example of a sambo, BJJ and striking allrounder.

www.youtube.com...

or Anderson Silva...a great Muay Thai, BJJ and Boxing fighter

www.youtube.com...

Both guys will shrug off your eye gouge then make you pay



[edit on 26-7-2010 by Jukiodone]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Jukiodone]

Originally posted by Jukiodone
reply to post by RestingInPieces

 

That is a valid point and I'd respond by saying that ANYONE can poke an eye out or grab some testicles...lol.

You could teach someone that kind of fighting in a day but it takes consistent training against real oponents to master the technique that would seperate the practioner in a hand to hand scenario.

Dont get me wrong..I'm not one of these "Bruce Lee would kick Mike Tysons ass" but I couldnt see even the dirtiest of fighters lasting more than 1 minute with a pro MMA/Sambo fighter.

You go to gouge my testicles and miss...what next ??

The whole point of Sambo /BJJ is that if you do miss the quick win (which in all probability you might) you can survive it and ultimately gain an advantage ..

For those asking what MMA is : heres my boy Fedor who's a great example of a sambo, BJJ and striking allrounder.

www.youtube.com...

or Anderson Silva...a great Muay Thai, BJJ and Boxing fighter

www.youtube.com...

Both guys will shrug off your eye gouge then make you pay

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Jukiodone]

Why does it have to be "dirty fighters" against MMA? That just tells me you are missing the point. Maybe it would be more clear to you if it wasn't MMA, but a battle to the death and all of those moves were allowed plus everyone had all the skills of the best MMA fighters.

I'm obviously talking about fighting and you are talking about competition.

Real fighting is how dirty you can be.

reply to post by Jukiodone


My grandmaster is shamed from your talk, by the way, he could knock you out from 10 yards away with one punch

^ lol.

I wrote that after a couple of beers but I'm pretty sure the point was made that in a fight to the death...everyone can use dirty fighting tactics ( thats means a trained fighter as well..)

I'd prefer to be testicle grabbed (oooh er...) by someone who doesnt have Sambo/BJJ/A.N. Other practiced fighting technique if that makes any sense.

Back OT : Sambo is probably the most widely taught, applicable ( ie not Kung Fu a la the Chinese Army) discipline in Russian forces so I'd go with them hand to hand.

oh and if you were going to be "real dirty" in a hand to hand fight surely you'd slyly bring along a knife, rock, branch etc etc/??




[edit on 27-7-2010 by Jukiodone]

reply to post by Jukiodone


No, they won't shrug off eye gouges, they pause matches if someones glove skims their eye from a punch, because they can't see, they stop fighting because all their focus has gone to their eye.

So an actual eye gouge would be devastating.

Hand-to-Hand combat really becomes a non-issue when the soldiers will be wearing the SARCOS ROBOTIC EXOSKELETON fitted with body armor suit like in GI JOE and AVATAR.

An acquaintance works at a gun manufacture and says they are producing a automatic shotgun called the crowd clearer for BLACKWATER which spreads a wall of shrapnel across a expansive area.

The military has done a lot of work developing the electromagnetic rail gun which can accelerate metal to speeds of mach 10. At this speed they dont need explosives because the rounds kinetic energy is more than enough all buy itself.