Best trained in Hand-to-Hand combat...

From what I understand, Krav Maga is actually taught in Israeli schools as a phys. ed. type thing. I would think that that would give the IDF a step up, simply because they wouldn't be forced to fit all of the self-defense stuff into a few months.

I haven't actually tried Krav Maga, but it sounds like it is very practical and doesn't have too many "sacred cows" like karate and tae kwon do do with stances and jump/spin kicks. It isn't designed as a competetive sport, but is simply as efficient as possible.

SPETNAZ EASILY, but after that, I would probally say the Green Berets.

What are you basing your opinion on SEAL?

I've heard Spetsnaz is legendary with the knife, but as has been said, when it comes to knife fighting, the Ghurkas take the cake. We've heard they abuse their recruits, and have strict physical discipline, but what styles do they employ?

What makes them so special? (no pun intended)

Videos:
www.spetsnaz-gru.com...
www.spetsnaz-gru.com...
www.spetsnaz-gru.com...

Pics:
www.nato.int...
www.spetsnaz-gru.com...
www.spetsnaz-gru.com...
www.spetsnaz-gru.com...

Like I've said b4, they could take any1 in hand-2-hand. I don't care what Spec Op Unit I join, I NEVER want 2 fight Spetsnaz.

I agree that their training is extremely harsh compared 2 Western Training, but it's obviously worth it in the end.

Originally posted by PBscientist
I haven't actually tried Krav Maga, but it sounds like it is very practical and doesn't have too many "sacred cows" like karate and tae kwon do do with stances and jump/spin kicks. It isn't designed as a competetive sport, but is simply as efficient as possible.

I dont know about Krav Maga but I do know that tae kwon do is a sport that is a spin off from Korean Tang Soo Do because the Koreans wanted to have thier own sport in the olympics. It is certainly not effective in self defense or real life combat since the training is geared toward scoring points in tournament style fighting which excludes vital areas of the body! Most Western Martial Arts today have been brought to us by Korean, Chinese and Japanese GrandMasters who saw the money making opportunity it would bring them to share the art with American. The thing is, they did not teach us the truth. They only taught what was needed to get by and make money. There are many martial arts systems that have good techniques for hand to hand combat and ground fighting. Tang Soo Do, Shotokan, Jujitsu, just to name a few. What is missed in this training in most cases is the pressure point and meridian system. These are key elements in martial arts systems to be effective. This is what the old masters did not want us to know! and the most important part

I vote chinese.

www.emptyflower.com...

Originally posted by Cyrus
SPEZNAS meet no opposition these days....if they want smthng done, it'll get done, no matter what.
lucky the ukraine isnt part of the U.S.S.R anymore

statistics show that the average russian soldier is able to withstand 40-60% more pain than a marine

as for the israeli combattants....lol, i doubt they'd even be compared, it is rumoured that recruitment proves the hardest task of all, since you'll find most israeli teenagers pissing their pants too scared to hold up a weapon.
Cyrus
ps: these are statistics off the radio, sorry, no link.

Sounds like the biggest load of bollox I've heard. LMAO 40-60% tougher
How surprising there is no link, maybe because its BS.
As for the Spetsnaz, they are used as glorified police. They haven't fought a proper military in decades ( if at all ). Even the Chechans have wiped out more than a few Spetsnaz and you'd hardly call them elite

As for the ISraeli's, you really are talking out of your arse and obviously have no idea what the Israeli military is like. Israeli Sarayet's would wipe the floor with the Sptetsnaz.

Well SAS of course, they are the best, did you all know that they developed this tactics... OK, it's about hand guns, but still...



[edit on 15-8-2005 by Figher Master FIN]



[edit on 15-8-2005 by Figher Master FIN]

But if you can Russian, read this book...

hey, check waht i found, look at these videos, the speznas are quite good...

SPEZNAS

OOH, geez, seal-trident had the same movies...

[edit on 15-8-2005 by Figher Master FIN]

Hand to Hand.. I wouldn't mess with the North Koreans... esp Kim's bodyguards. They train everyday from when they are little and there are many casulties because they don't play fight. Really the survival of the fittest and the best of the litter makes it.

A trained fighter is just like anything else. Skill comes with practice. The best would be the ones kickin @ss regularly. Look at our situation in the mideast. We send everyday folks with 16 weeks basic training and call the marines the best, while our enemy, or most of them have been fighting like this their whole lives. While we grew up playing basketball, smoking weed, drinking beer, watching tv, and playing video games, these people were fighting. This is why we loose urban warfare. Please dont call me unpatriotic, because those are my friends fighting this wallstreet war, but I speak the truth. Think of the toughest street thug you know personally. Why is he/she the way they are? From strife and turmoil, not 16 weeks of training. The US basic is really just to beat you down mentally enough that you follow orders without question, and so you work off that beer gut before they send you over seas. 12 or 16 weeks of training doesnt make you a marksman, or a tough guy, it makes you fearless, or less fearful. The difference is very important when facing people who are not only fearless, but also are much more experienced with fighting than you. This goes for guns, fists, knives, kung-fu, death-rays, etc...

Boxing, Muaythai(Not Kick Boxing) or just bare fist streigteners are the best forms of fighting. I dont like these karate type of ones where you earn a stupid useless belt that does no good but out of them 'karate' type of ones, kung fu is the best out that breed but i still dont really admire them. You know what is a belt gonna do?

Its the MIND what counts, the body is secondary.

You can still be hard even if you are just a 'Rat Boy' or even without going to these fighting sport classes. For instance look at the Kray twins, they were extremely hard and dangerous without these 'karate lessons'. These classes still can teach you a few 'moves' but no matter what, It is all down to you if you are up for the bash(Fight).

The agression in these 'Hard' men are driven by thier testosterone levels. Thats why you often see these 'Macho' guys with women a lot.

Testosterone levels- Could be an answer to being 'hard'!.

Admire these Hard macho types?

www.chopperread.com...

www.bronsonmania.com...

Anyone watch UFC? Nearly every one of your martial arts heroes would be destroyed by these guys. Jet Li admitted that any one of the MMA fighters could tear him up easily. MMA is a combo of boxing, grappling techniques, throws, knees, elbows, and once in a while they can sneak in a kick. If you ever wonder the effectiveness of any method watch how it fares in UFC. I watched the MuiTai world champion (the only white dude to ever travel to Taiwan and defeat them at their own martial art) get his a** handed to him in like 2 1/2 minutes in a UFC fight. He won the Mui Tai championship 4 out of 6 years, 3 comming in a row. He looked like a chump against a "fighter." Martial arts are arts. Fighting is fighting. The two overlap slightly...

Isn't it slightly irrelevant to ask who is best at hand to hand combat? These days soldiers use close combat rarely enough let alone fighting without weapons.

However on the question of close combat ... this is an interesting question. Most special forces close combat techniques would be designed for silence and for use against people who aren't particularly skilled at this. Eg. Navy Seal diver sneaks up behind the watch on a Russian Destroy and breaks his neck. Spetsnaz soldier knocks out a security guard with a shovel at a dock where US troops will be arriving the next day.

So I don't know if you can say definitively that anyone has the best close combat training because IMO it would be mostly specialised stuff. However if you were to compare the training of a unit that is trained as 'general infantry' or something similar their training in this area could be rated well. This is because they would be trained in general self defence.

However if I were to choose from any unit, I'd say Spetsnaz. I've seen more videos then have been posted here and I must say that even if I had a rifle and I saw one of these guys coming at less then 10 meters I'd drop it and start running myself. However I wouldn't know how to fire a rifle quickly so thats part of the reason why

Pro Wrestling could be a good skill



Or advice from these sites?
www.closequarterscombat.com/cilvilianworkshop.html

www.topsecrettraining.com

Deep down, I think just pure agression is the best for fighting

Self defence is a myth, exept for attacking your attacker





[edit on 4-5-2006 by Browno]

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by sirCyco
jackie chan seems to be pretty good...

on video!

Yeah, I hear hes nothing more than an acrobat. Or thats what he was before his films.

Having practiced martial arts for many years and I met a Gracie once in Birmingham!!! lol, I would say that most special forces train in a standard mix of katas throws kicks and punches taken from different martial arts (like a basic mma! My bro is training in MMA at the mo) Ive seen SAS train and spez' on video and their styles are very different.

SAS go for quick, simple and effective, while the russians tend to go for a more flamboyant style!!! but i'd have to agree that most training is for armed combat not unarmed, so I would say that a good all round trained fighter would be a match for most SFs, who do you think they get in to train these guys!!!
also someone said that youd need lots of agression, IMO thats complete bull, you need to be calm to be effective and to win!!!!

someone was asking about a wrist lock from a gun or knife attack, I think this is an Aikido technique call "kote geashi" meaning small wrist turn!! it is used by most SF and steven seagal, and is easy to learn lol










[edit on 5-5-2006 by Kurokage]

Maybe 'Controlled Agression' would be good or just anyway you fancy as long as you floor the opponent.

Ive seen Royal Marine Commandos at a display showing unarmed combat moves, They seemed to used skills similar to judo and karate'ish type of stuff

The British Parachute Regiment/Airborne Forces instead do a sort 1 minuate but sharp form of boxing called 'Milling'. It is part of thier Pre Parachute Selection Course also known as 'P Company'. They seem to use raw agression rather than complicated karate type of moves.

When I decided to learn arm to arm combat I did the research and decided to go with Krav Maga (what the IDF use).

I watched the Spetsnaz videos and some of their moves are very similar to Krav Maga.

But hey, don't believe me:

www.martial-arts-info.com...

Here's some basic clips:

www.kravmagaco.com...

The first thing I was told about the rules of Krav Maga is that "there are no rules".

One thing I can say is that when you train, you get hurt - a lot...but this is probably due to the testoterone levels at our club...you know what blokes are like when a little agression starts happening - especially when you or your opponent don't pull back on a blow quick enough

Cheers

JS