Best trained in Hand-to-Hand combat...

English Football Fans. The reason no one would be silly enough to try and invade us hehe. On a more serious note, I'd Vote for the Spetsnaz then SAS.

Haha, it's funny that I have been watching most of these methods on youtube for a few hours and it seems that more of them act as spectacles, entertainment if you will.

I beleive the best fighters from watching this and reading up are the simple and efficient fighters, so the Spetnatz as they deliver fatal blows.

How about Kims bunch of nut jobs?

Check em out here:

www.youtube.com...

A lot of what they get hit with looks like bamboo,but they do some crazy stuff with thier hands.Also look at Kims face when hes watching the guy getting battered in the gym-he loves it.
The guy who takes a shovel to the stomach made me wince.
OK they probably aren`t the toughest,but they`re up there i rekon.

EDIT: oops wrong link,fixed now.


[edit on 15-10-2006 by Silcone Synapse]

I don't think there's really a "best" when it comes to martial arts in the military. Most of the Jackie Chan kung-fu masters get their training from outside the military, on their own time.

But, overall, I would bet my money on the ROK Marines. These guys are like friggin Ninjas

After thinking about it for a considerable amount more time I think the mercanaries with specialised training would be better as their techniques would literally be unknown and you couldn't anticipate their moves !

Of Military forces, I would say the IDF. Krav Maga is to my knowledge the most efficient hand-to-hand combat training you can get. Of course, you can add variation through factors like training-amount, how hard you train, how often you get to use it and test it against other styles or in real combat.. etc. But by default I would say a Krav Maga E degree (I dont know how high they train IDF in Krav Maga usually) IDF soldier should be ranked up among the top 3

all chinese military are trained by the shaolin monks. so therefore i say the chinese

Chinese military usually get training in certain styles of Kung-Fu yes (a lot of Chinese citizens train this from they are kids anyway), and a lot of the styles are mastered my Shaolin munks, and a lot of Shaolin munks may work as self-defense trainers for Chinese military and police, but how efficient it is in combat if you set it up against other styles I dont know. I train Hung Gar myself, which is a traditional style of southern Kung-Fu brought down from the Shaolin ... It teaches insane resilience, endurance, pain, quick kicks (usually low kicks) and fists usually from low stances. Very effective training and a good basis for learning speed and powerful punches and blocks, but it's not the type of martial art you choose if you wish to learn how to fight in a year without training on application and getting experience yourself. For that you choose a pure combat oriented self-defense style, like Krav Maga.

I know how to defend myself, I know that from experience. And training Hung Gar has offered very good grounds for learning to fight for me, even though I don't train it for that particular reason. But that is a result of me training on how to apply what I learn to real situations, and training against people who master styles that are usually superior to my style in realistic scenarios. By training for example Krav Maga, you will learn efficient self-defense a lot faster than if you train most Asiatic styles without getting any real-life experience.

Most people get this wrong though. it's not as if a Kung Fu trained soldier will not kick most peoples ass very very hard. They do realize the potential and weaknesses of their own fighting style, and will adapt their training to that.

Boxing, Muaythai(Not Kick Boxing) or just bare fist streigteners are the best forms of fighting. I dont like these karate type of ones where you earn a stupid useless belt that does no good but out of them 'karate' type of ones, kung fu is the best out that breed but i still dont really admire them. You know what is a belt gonna do?

Ah, yeah, Muay Thai (Thai Boxing) is a very good form of fighting training.

As for Kung Fu though... reffering to it as "that breed" is a bit wrong. Traditionally (and usually in serious clubs now days aswell) you don't earn belts while training Kung Fu styles. The grading system is relevant to the actual meaning of Kung Fu... It's hard to translate, but it basically means "achievement through effort". In our club we refer to Kung Fu as meaning "Time and Effort/"Suffering"/Hard work". The more time, effort, suffering and hard work you put into the training, the stronger is your Kung Fu. The longer you have trained under the teacher (sifu) the stronger is your Kung Fu. So, even though I might have learned more Hung Gar punches or forms than certain others in my club, if they have been training and putting more time and effort into it than me they are still my sihing (senior/teacher/elder brother). Your Kung Fu is strengthened through time, hard work and effort, not through graduating in new forms and earning belts.

Belts are usually just a way for people to feel they have earned something and reached a new level of achievement though. No one actually believes their belt will defend them from anyone all by itself. And... A high degree belt in any martial art will usually tell something about a persons skill, toughness and dedication.



[edit on 29-1-2007 by me_ofef_seraph]

Originally posted by Russian

Very well said alternateheaven.

I think most of the SFs dont waste alot of time on hand to hand.

Also the Spetsnaz training makes them very bruitle.

It is bruitality you need in fighting.

If you ever saw how they beat the living # out of the Spetsnaz to make them brutile.

After being beaten so brutily the Spetsnaz hate all people on earth and when they do their job they have no remorse for any people.

And thats what you need to have a effecint SF.

I disagree with you on this one. It is true that our special forces are probably the most ruthless but they are by far anything like what you are discribing them as. No they do NOT hate the world, and no they do not come out of training with nothing but brutality on their mind. If you ever taken martial arts you know well you are not supposed to become flooded with anger but stay concentrated. You can be angry but not be controled by it (yes, souonds like star wars, just ignor that). Have you ever seen or met any Spetsnaz officers by the way? You will find out they're not homocidal maniacs.

Back to the topic. I say Spetsnaz. Russia has a LONG history in war that has to do with hand to hand. WW2, most commonly used weapon of the Russian soldier was either a knife or a spade, that's a fact. Someone on page 2 stated that infantry doesn't realy need to know h2h since it doesn't happen much these days. Not true. Maybe not in Iraq or lebanon (the confliscts we hear about in the west) but in chechnya it is not uncommon. There was one such battle where 100 of russian desantniki (VDV, kinda like US marines but in helicopters, not sea) tried to halt a chechen group of 2000 strong trying to head for dagestan befor the russian army would arive in the area. No they didn't win the battle. Dead to the last man. Last they were heard from they were calling artillery on themselves because their trenches were overrun and they were already out of ammo. They mannaged to kill off enough terrorists though for the chechens to stop their advance if i'm correct. My point is if you are not recieving support (arty or helo), which was common in 90s in the russian army, you will be out of ammo sooner or later.

Here's a video though on some of the hand to hand techniques used by the Spetsnaz. I'll post the translation of what's being said in a sec. One thing though - the guy says they are not about to try and prove anything to you, believe them or not that's up to you.

Regards,
Maestro

Originally posted by daeldren
The SAS are probably one of the top Special Forces teams as well as Hand to Hand combatants. We are talking about a Group that was trained to go in with little more than a knife and steal their enemies weapons.

Just so you know mate, befor any special forces unit was formed in the world, or this technique being used in any other army befor (or atleast commonly if i'm correct), a standard practice in the Russian army in WW2 was to sneak up to the enemy (Nazi) lines, kidnap an officer and bring him back to their HQ for questioning. In case you're still confused they wouldn't be using guns to take down the sentries, too much noise. Spade or knife. Also since there was a shortage on guns more than often the Russians would sneak up to the German positions at night, sneak in and butcher everyone they could get their hands on. The Germans were dead scared of this in WW2. If you think the SAS is the first to "go into an area with nothing but a knife" i'll put money down on the fact this is EXACTLY where they got the idea.

Regards,
maestro

- speaker: "look closely, this is the physics we so quickly tried to forget after school as kids. This means a good education, and years of training for the brain (he means being smart) for a Spetsnaz is far more important than strong fists. here's something more or less simple (guy swinging the rifle at him), but does this look like something that some 'zombie killing machine' would think of?"

- instructor: (sitting on the guy) "This is the 'robot system' (cause he has complete control over the guy he pinned), my hands are completly free. Here, I take a carbine, (yes, he's using a gun, still cool...just part of the video, the best part is ahead), except for the Spetsnaz hardly anyone else knows this. He's not going anywhere. I can lead him, and shoot while using him as cover."

- speaker: "The only reason we can film this is because at the same time this demonstration is being show to the instructors of the American spetsnaz (spetsnaz in russian simply means elite infantry, in this case the american soldiers are marines). This is why they only demonstrated simple tricks. But even these tricks are shocking."

- instructor: (part where the guy in the blue beret is getting ready to hit him) "I'm going to do this slowly now. I'm just afraid to mess up his health (to this day I have no clue what that was supposed to mean). take a stepping punch at me. I'm barely tapped him. Enough?"

- speaker: (screen is sorta black and white, notice the guy wasn't even touched) "And this they nearly refused to show to us. The arts of the elite is non contact combat (as the guy is walking away you can see the spetsnaz instructors hand move like he's pulling him). You don't have to belive what you are seeing. No one was about to try and prove anything to us anyways. They already tested it - in battle."

- instructor: (2 guys assaulting him) "you can drop 15 to 20 guys like this"

- speaker: "These techniques are available to any person (means they can be learned aruond the world), thats why the methods of these techniques are tops secret (what he means is this wasn't developed by Spetsnaz but learned from some part of the world and where or what this is is top secret). To access them you have to be in the elite (Spetsnaz). The US marine did not belive that what was being shown to him was real. Just like that, simply, the spetsnaz (instructor) proved to him that it was.
This is just a small fraction of the Spetsnaz arsenal, years of...." video stops.

here's a link to the video again: www.youtube.com...

If you want to see the russian martial art used by the Spetsnaz just search SYSTEMA in google or on youtube.

Here are some videos on thye Spetsnaz in general if any of you understand russian or are curiouse in anyways: video.google.com...
video.google.com...

Regards,
Maestro

[edit on 31-1-2007 by maestro46]

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
How about Kims bunch of nut jobs?

Check em out here:

www.youtube.com...

A lot of what they get hit with looks like bamboo,but they do some crazy stuff with thier hands.Also look at Kims face when hes watching the guy getting battered in the gym-he loves it.
The guy who takes a shovel to the stomach made me wince.
OK they probably aren`t the toughest,but they`re up there i rekon.

EDIT: oops wrong link,fixed now.


[edit on 15-10-2006 by Silcone Synapse]

www.youtube.com...

there's a link to something similar from the Spetsnaz. Yes it's not nearly the load of bricks broken and all that, but they got the pain ressistance no less you have to agree. That is what both the movies are about. Oh and the Russian SYSTEMA martial art is not just it's own style. It's a bit of everything. Knowing it is kinda like cross training in martial arts. Plus the Spetsnaz train all over the world anyways.

Regards,
Maestro

PS: Yes it doesn't look to professional when they fight. that's cause it's a show. Each move is staged, like theater. But you ge the concept. Either way if you want to see them in action search SYSTEMA in google or in youtube.

[edit on 31-1-2007 by maestro46]

There is no unarmed style, cause as long as you have your limbs, you are armed with weapons, weapons of the human body!

There is no best style, it all depends on the individual.

I was a US Marine Sgt. 1980 to 1990 during boot camp rifle training US Marines must qualify at to range 200, 300 and 500 yards 26" barrel M16A1 once a year
During the training I ask my Drill Instructor these questions.
What if i miss hitting the enemy at 500 yards? And he replied Shoot them at 300 yards.
but if I miss at 300 or 200 yards then do I use Hand to Hand Combat training that we received ? He replied .
NO I will Shoot you MY self .

SEMPER FI

Interesting question i know that the IDF are pretty good they developed Krav maga. SAS developed something called “jap slapping” however i really don’t know any specifics. I think i am right in saying that some American units are trained in Krav Maga and i don’t really know about other units. Herd something about GROM having a some impressive moves but never really seen any evidence of it.

Gurkhas

or GRU operatives.

Lots of opinions, lots of answers. I used to teach soldiers close combat using street fighting skills [dirty fighting] knife and bayonet fighting.

Once on a demonstration in front of a general, he was heard to mutter, "I wouldn't want to meet that bastard down a blind alley in the middle of the night!" [I guess he meant that I was butt ugly] I am!

Unless you are the aggressor [attacker] and unless you are really trained to a level way beyond your assailant's comprehension, you'll loose!

For example if somebody comes at you with a knife in a clenched fist, blade pointing downwards, I used to teach: Block with the opposing arm and sweep your own blade or edge of your hand, upwards and outwards, across the assailant's inside upper arm!

If you're using a blade, you'll put him down and he'll stay down. If just using your hand, his arm will go numb for at least 30 minutes and, he'll be in such pain that you could easily finish him off.

But you won't, because you've just taught him a lesson he won't forget and of course if you used a knife, he could bleed out!

Normal people are - no disrespect intended, just civvies - not trained to expect the unexpected and even squaddies will be surprised but and here is the rub, once the training kicks in, you'll be surprised how quickly you gain the initiative and thus gain an advantage.

In a street fight, the winner is the one who is bloodied, but still standing!

[edit on 03/07/10 by fritz]

SAD PMOO's probably know quite a few tricks. They are the CIA's wetworks operatives.

reply to post by maestro46[/url]

Unfortunately Maestro, the Germans invaded Russia in July 1941 but the SAS were conducting keeny-meanie ops behind the Desert Fox's lines long before Russian forces got organised to put up any form of resistance!

Im gonna say guys from the North of Ireland, especially after a few drinks, altho the women here are quite tough and scary at times too

or maybe Chuck Norris

personaly i'd say the spartan and the samuri cause they are the best of ther timeif they met on te battle feild theyd tie pasout and be draged off