Can we be sure that speed of light is unbeatable?

I don't really know a lot about the science and math involved in the speed of light, but why can't anything go faster than?

Most, perhaps all scientists say that Light has the highest speed, by saying that aren't we closing our mind.

Accept it there is a possibility that some unknown object, that can go faster than light.

Well someone chime in to correct me if I am wrong. The theory is, that as you increase speed, your mass increases with the speed. As you approach the speed of light, the mass will approach infinity. And you need an infinite amount of energy to push infinity. Now this is my own personal spin on it. Light has no mass. That is why it can travel at that speed. So the speed of light may actually be a barrier of sorts. Maybe it should be called "the objects with mass speed barrier". There are alot of other theory's put there at this time. But there is compelling evidence that the speed of light is the limit. In some lab experiments, they have sped light up faster than its known max. The scientists in these experiments claim that it is in agreement with relativity and the speed barrier is still true. I am not sure how that is possible. Others claim you can travel faster than the speed of light and relativity is false or outdated. I guess it is up to you though, to make up your mind. I have read a couple books arguing either way. I tend to side with relativity for now.

[Edited on 11/20/2003 by Seapeople]

Indeed, every physics book I've read (and I read quite a few) has considered the speed impossible to reach if the object has any mass.

Bending of space is your best bet, I recon. This would let you move between two points quicker than light can travel the distance.

However, the books were pretty thin on ideas on how to achieve this!

Most, perhaps all scientists say that Light has the highest speed, by saying that aren't we closing our mind.

Erm, no they aren't?

As for your question in the topic title, no of course we cant be sure.

Accept it there is a possibility that some unknown object, that can go faster than light.

Who accept what, who are you preaching to here?

[Edited on 20-11-2003 by Kano]

I agree in some senses, but it just doesn't sound right to me... And it is proven that some things can move faster than light.. While light, gamma rays, xrays all have no real measurable amount of mass, they do certainly have mass....It is just so small that we cannot even grasp the concept of it. But they have proven through a test that they used a pulse of light and shot it through a vaccum filled with an high charged medium the light speed up to the point where the light actually exited the vaccum before it entered... Sounds impossible but it is true...www.iitk.ac.in...

Also pulse microwaves have proven to go faster than light.

www.nature.com...

Just thought I would post a little something on here =) And another thing, some people think that if you go faster than light that time will stand still, but think about it... light doesn't only travel in one direction... So while you might be outrunning one ray of light, the opposing one would only be coming at you that much faster...

Originally posted by Dravenn
I agree in some senses, but it just doesn't sound right to me... And it is proven that some things can move faster than light.. While light, gamma rays, xrays all have no real measurable amount of mass, they do certainly have mass....It is just so small that we cannot even grasp the concept of it. But they have proven through a test that they used a pulse of light and shot it through a vaccum filled with an high charged medium the light speed up to the point where the light actually exited the vaccum before it entered... Sounds impossible but it is true...www.iitk.ac.in...

Also pulse microwaves have proven to go faster than light.

www.nature.com...

Just thought I would post a little something on here =) And another thing, some people think that if you go faster than light that time will stand still, but think about it... light doesn't only travel in one direction... So while you might be outrunning one ray of light, the opposing one would only be coming at you that much faster...

Doesnt relativity say specifically that light travels the same speed in all directions to all observers though? Even if you are running at it at half the speed of light, the light we appear to be traveling at its usual speed to you, and any other oberver. There have been experiments that indicated that this is true. Which leads to a whole lot of questions and things that people dont readily accept I know. Maybe someday these things will be proven untrue or explained differently.

I totally agree... and I myself would like to see some of the laws of the universe proven not true. There is no way that everything is known or will ever be known, and only a matter of time before what we think is known, to be proven wrong.

just a thought here, but if they can speed light up so that you can see it leave the highly charged medium mentioned what would happen if they somehow speeded it up so much that it could be seen a few seconds before the source of the light was triggered? You would have time to make the decision not to switch the light on therefore creating a paradox in the lab. Or would the fact that you'de seen the light just make it inevitable that you will press that switch and it is in fact a devise to see into the future.

This may be of interest: Reported in the Times on 5th June.

Monday, June 5, 2000
By Jonathan Leake (The Times of London)


Scientists claim they have broken the ultimate speed barrier: the speed of light.
In research carried out in the United States, particle physicists have shown that light pulses can be accelerated to up to 300 times their normal velocity of 186,000 miles per second.

The implications, like the speed, are mind-boggling. On one interpretation it means that light will arrive at its destination almost before it has started its journey. In effect, it is leaping forward in time.

Exact details of the findings remain confidential because they have been submitted to Nature, the international scientific journal, for review prior to possible publication.

The work was carried out by Dr. Lijun Wang, of the NEC research institute in Princeton, who transmitted a pulse of light towards a chamber filled with specially treated cesium gas.

Before the pulse had fully entered the chamber it had gone right through it and travelled a further 60 feet across the laboratory. In effect it existed in two places at once, a phenomenon that Wang explains by saying it travelled 300 times faster than light.

The research is already causing controversy among physicists. What bothers them is that if light could travel forward in time it could carry information. This would breach one of the basic principles in physics � causality, which says that a cause must come before an effect. It would also shatter Einstein's theory of relativity since it depends in part on the speed of light being unbreachable.

This weekend Wang said he could not give details but confirmed: "Our light pulses did indeed travel faster than the accepted speed of light. I hope it will give us a much better understanding of the nature of light and how it behaves."

Dr. Raymond Chiao, professor of physics at the University of California at Berkeley, who is familiar with Wang's work, said he was impressed by the findings. "This is a fascinating experiment," he said.

In Italy, another group of physicists has also succeeded in breaking the light speed barrier. In a newly published paper, physicists at the Italian National Research Council described how they propagated microwaves at 25 percent above normal light speed. The group speculates that it could be possible to transmit information faster than light.

Dr. Guenter Nimtz, of Cologne University, an expert in the field, agrees. He believes that information can be sent faster than light and last week gave a paper describing how it could be done to a conference in Edinburgh. He believes, however, that this will not breach the principle of causality because the time taken to interpret the signal would fritter away all the savings.

"The most likely application for this is not in time travel but in speeding up the way signals move through computer circuits," he said.

Wang's experiment is the latest and possibly the most important evidence that the physical world may not operate according to any of the accepted conventions.

In the new world that modern science is beginning to perceive, sub-atomic particles can apparently exist in two places at the same time � making no distinction between space and time.

Separate experiments carried out by Chiao illustrate this. He showed that in certain circumstances photons � the particles of which light is made � could apparently jump between two points separated by a barrier in what appears to be zero time. The process, known as tunnelling, has been used to make some of the most sensitive electron microscopes.

The implications of Wang's experiments will arouse fierce debate. Many will question whether his work can be interpreted as proving that light can exceed its normal speed � suggesting that another mechanism may be at work.

Neil Turok, professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge University, said he awaited the details with interest, but added: "I doubt this will change our view of the fundamental laws of physics."

Wang emphasizes that his experiments are relevant only to light and may not apply to other physical entities. But scientists are beginning to accept that man may eventually exploit some of these characteristics for interstellar space travel.

Preface:
I acknowledge that the speed of gravity has not yet been measured in any known laboratory � the technology just is not there yet. The speed of gravity can be deductively measured through observations of astronomical models, and the resulting data generally depends on what you use for a model in your observation. There are two basic schools of thought concerning gravitational speed.

Newtonian Gravity:
In a Newtonian gravity model, gravity happens instantaneously; let�s use the Sun for an example. It takes the Sun�s light approximately 8 minutes 19 seconds to reach Earth, however the Sun�s gravitational force on the Earth is from the Sun�s position now, not the relational position 8 minutes and 19 seconds ago. In fact, if the Sun�s gravitational force had a light speed delay on it (called retardation), orbits would become unstable and would lead to orbital phenomena that would contradict proven observations of the solar system.

Einsteinian General Relativity:
In General Relativity gravity operates at the speed of light, meaning that the motion of an object with mass creates a distortion in spacetime, etc.

Einsteinian General Relativity coupled with astronomical observations have proven that light bends around gravitational forces. Therefore we know that GR allows for a variety of manipulations of light. In the Newtonian school of thought gravity acts instantaneous instead of at the speed of light�

I realize the next thought requires a stretch across data and theory not presented here but here goes anyway�

My Thoughts:
Could it be then that if one were to have the ability to manipulate gravity then one would be able to hypothetically travel at or in excess to the speed of light? Certainly it has been discussed in many �anti-gravity� forums about using gravity as a way of bending light around an object in order to give it optical stealth �

Anyway, although I realize I have not taken the time to present adequate technical support for this it would seem to me that manipulation of gravity could present yet another alternate route to speed of light travel.
Love to hear good clear and concise thoughts on the matter�and I'm certainly open to hearing opposing viewpoints...

Intelgurl


[Edited on 20-11-2003 by intelgurl]

Depending on what extent it is (if at all) possible to manipulate gravity. It may well be possible to achieve light speed by creating a gravity well infront of an object. (Like the old carrot and mule trick). As even though the objects mass rapidly increases as it approaches near-light speeds. The force exerted by gravity increases along with it. In theory it could attain a constant acceleration to and past light speed.

BUT

The problem with this (and its a rather glaring one). Is that the gravitational pull of any object is dependant on the mass of the object. Now, if we look at our previous scenario. Once the Object attains light speed, its mass becomes infinite. This would cause the gravitational attraction of the object to be infinite. In theory accelerating all matter in the universe towards it at an infinite rate. (ie instantaneously).

So breaking the lightspeed barrier the hard way could be bad news for the universe.

you ask a stupid question.

Take a look at the lorentz theory and you'll understand why.

E=MC�

this mean that speed is a question of state of the matter :

Light is not a matter but a state of matter...

Lightspeed is not an absolute, mind is as unto infinite in the capacity of imagination which is our entirety. Light is generated by the eyes and is therefor determinate only by the speed of or perceived speed of as reception/perception.

I have always thought that light speed was just another speed. Nothing special about and no reason why we cant break it. Remeber what they said about the speed of sound. They said that it could never be broken.

Originally posted by jetsetter
I have always thought that light speed was just another speed. Nothing special about and no reason why we cant break it. Remeber what they said about the speed of sound. They said that it could never be broken.

Because of the state of matter !

because the atoms composing the ship will be disintegrated : these atoms go at speeda near of speed of light !



[Edited on 25-11-2003 by Nans DESMICHELS]

[Edited on 25-11-2003 by Nans DESMICHELS]

they said that the sound barrier couldn't be broken but in time we did after some new inventions and after some daring people. so I believe in time we will and we will find a new treshold to be broken.

So if E=MC�, what would happen if you decreased your mass to nothing?

only way to get something to go as fast as light is by making it have no mass, or -mass if thats possible...

but only 2 ways to travel throughe space, "bending" space and "time travel"

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
E=MC�

this mean that speed is a question of state of the matter :

Light is not a matter but a state of matter...

Light has no mass........