Uk and Guns

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I dont think we have to worry about zombies, unless that word is a variable for an enemy. We may have to worry about restoring civil order if have the problenms france had though. Also, mohammed isnt too willing to run around the US with a bomb strapped to him with heavily armed civilians, not too mention our military and police forces.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by XphilesPhan]

When you're armed, you're a 'citizen' not a civilian . When you're not armed you're a subject to those who are armed. Civilian is a term used by the military to describe anyone who's not part of the military including the police.

Well i'm from the UK & well if the SHTF i intend on having a few ranged weapons scrapheap challenge style!!

Golfball launcher....2 high RPM drive wheels fling golfballs at 100+MPH with a spread like a machine gun

Flamethrower....Fuel in bottles/tanks, pumped either by hand or electrically to gun with ignition at the tip.....BBQ!!! nice lol

Steam Mortar/cannon....Steel tube welded 1 end, filled with water, ball/shell fitted into aperture in end of tubing & hammered down to form seal.....heat to boil water, pressure builds up & then boom!! (note:- not tested!!!!!!.....could go boom the wrong way lol)

& their just for starters

reply to post by neformore


Hi!

Sorry but I'm quite happy to debate this....

In Australia I used to enjoy shooting with mates - we shot rabbits, the occasional roo and we leart to bear arms. No one ever was hurt and we enjoyed waljing, shooting and eating what we shot.

Then I moved to the UK.

Unfotuately the total control of the UK (negative, negative negative) because of one or two maniacs reduced the pleasure of others.

Why not ban cars? Don't they kill more on a more frequent basis?

Why not ban dnink???

Why not ban smoking????

Why?

Simply because the UK govenment hypocritically makes money and it's easy to clamp down on the minority.... but that's England for you....

That's why the police are armed with sub machine guns in airports - they now trully have the uper hand. Maybe why so many people are being stabbed to death these days? Strange that the armed police can't stop this?

Suggest you read Edawrd Abbey - he put forward the rules regading governmental control - 1st - diasarm people.......

It is no more than contol.

Peace!



[edit on 2-2-2010 by The Wave]

I live in the UK and for the majority of us brits we would never allow guns to be so freely available as the usa. The guns cause more problems than they solve. If you think arming yourself is the only way of protecting yourself then ask yourself this question. What type of society do I live in that I have to bear arms to feel safe?
YOu gun tooting people are damn idiots and I hope you you all shoot yourselves in the head at some point in the future.

Originally posted by loner007
What type of society do I live in that I have to bear arms to feel safe?

One in which the Supreme Court decided police are under no obligation to protect any of us. One which even if the SCOTUS had decided otherwise it would be impossible for the police to do so unless we were all assigned our own personal cop 24/7. One which glamorizes criminal culture and poses more excuses and rationalization for the criminal than justice or protection for the victim.

You can be a "nice guy" all you want and it isnt going to change the gang of thugs down the street. It'll just make you an easy target.

reply to post by loner007


Hi!

Unfortunately they also give pleaure - shooting a rabbit, skinning it, cooking it and eating it takes away a basic part of man (or these days, women).

Sorry but you have no idea. You are controlled.

Peace!

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by loner007
What type of society do I live in that I have to bear arms to feel safe?

One in which the Supreme Court decided police are under no obligation to protect any of us. One which even if the SCOTUS had decided otherwise it would be impossible for the police to do so unless we were all assigned our own personal cop 24/7. One which glamorizes criminal culture and poses more excuses and rationalization for the criminal than justice or protection for the victim.

You can be a "nice guy" all you want and it isnt going to change the gang of thugs down the street. It'll just make you an easy target.

well if thats the type of society you like then you are welcome to it. But dont criticise the uk and its guns laws. As you can see at least we have a society where I can walk past a gang of thugs just by saying hello......

Originally posted by loner007
well if thats the type of society you like then you are welcome to it.

It's not a question of "like" it's reality.

Originally posted by neformore
This is why guns were banned in the UK to the extent that they are..

Hungerford Massacre

It was a bloody awful event that actually shook the whole nation and I for one have no qualms whatsover about the action taken because of it.

What an odd position to take. So you're glad, then, that nobody else had their own gun to take this guy down with?

There are a few misconceptions being bandied about here about UK Gun Control v US Gun Ownership.

Guns in the UK have NEVER been about protecting oneself, they have always and still are about sporting purposes, whether it is targets or wildlife.

The US gun ownership came about for a totally different reason than in the UK. Both peoples from each country have totally different views on guns and the reasons behind owning them.

Like I said above, gun ownership was always and still is in the minority and legally anyway for sporting purposes.

reply to post by neformore


But what if everyone had guns and knew how to use them? Then instead of over sixteen people getting killed maybe this fool would have been stopped.

Now we have a situation where Criminals (WHO DON'T OBEY LAW) get guns and those law abiding citizens can't have them to defend themselves!

What kind of solution is that!?!?!?

Think about it: a criminal would think 100 times before committing armed crime for fear he might get killed. He would probably not do it unless he knows that the target is unarmed.

C'mon people - Can't you see the illogical approach in all this? Gun banning is simply a law to SUBJUGATE the people.

[edit on 4-2-2010 by Jinni]

Reply to post by Wotan

I dontwant to suffer through all the searching on mobile but a while ago there was this program on the History Channel where they were interviewing some curator o a firearms museum over there and he was going on and on about the British "rich heretige" of pocket pistols and how at one point nearly every woman in the country carried one either as a regular pistol in a purse or disguised as a piece of jewelry. He pulled out example after example of these little derringers and revolvers and explained where women would have them a d how they were used.

The guy was obviously biased. He kept goin on about how shameful it was for the people to allow so much of their history to become outlawed and hidden away and expressed great admiration for the US.

But what does he know. He's just a historian and curator.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by neformore
This is why guns were banned in the UK to the extent that they are..

Hungerford Massacre

It was a bloody awful event that actually shook the whole nation and I for one have no qualms whatsover about the action taken because of it.

They've had worse than Hungerford in the USA and you don't see them treating their citizens with such disdain there!

Guns were not banned in Britain after Hungerford. Only semi-auto high-velocity weapons with detatchable magazines and pump-action shotguns were re-classified to firearms license level.
You can still own barrett sniper rifles of .50 calibre and semi auto .22 calibre etc.
You can also get around the bs pump-action ban by obtaining a firearms license anyway.

Hungerford was an unusual incident as he went insane off drugs he'd been given by his 'doctor' and had obtained the rifle via a government arms dealer... Very suspicious.
Dunblaine even more so!
Punish the perpetrator, not the people!!

A foreigner came to Britain and killed a girl in a shop. The weapon he'd smuggled in from Croatia! Totally not prevented by the Dunblaine massacre clamp-downs.

Gun control doesn't stop the crazies, they just find another way.
As Prince Phillip said, 'Are they going to ban cricket bats next?'

The good news is you can obtain firearms pretty easily legally in the UK.
You just have to jump through some hoops and join a gun club and install a gun safe. I've done this it isn't hard.

Now depending on the area you live, you can have an absolute robo-cop of a police firearms guru in charge of giving you your firearms license. You see the government does not allow a policeman who is a gun-enthusiast to take the job of firearms granting. They go for boring and anti-gun owning types instead.

This isn't a real problem though, as they have to find reason to refuse you a license. Now as long as you aren't a criminal and the gun club like you you won't be refused a license.
The only hitch is you've got to let the cops come into your house to look over your gun-safe BEFORE you're given the nod for weapons or not. This is the safety mechanism put in to discourage joe public from wanting a gun alas.

Before it would just be a formality of the paperwork being sent off, the license then granted, then going out and buying your guns.

So the people with the guns (legal gun-owners) are the only ones who have a good chance against the armed hordes of gangs, that, thanks to the hateful uk government are now armed to teeth and the typical gun-owner is a scarce citizen.
I think at the last count there were about 10,000 gun owners. Compared to the previous number being double that.
I will hopefully be raising awareness so that more and more people don't mind owning firearms in the UK. I'll probably take some sht for doing this but I don't care anymore what others think

[edit on 4-2-2010 by WatchRider]

Originally posted by loner007

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by loner007
What type of society do I live in that I have to bear arms to feel safe?

One in which the Supreme Court decided police are under no obligation to protect any of us. One which even if the SCOTUS had decided otherwise it would be impossible for the police to do so unless we were all assigned our own personal cop 24/7. One which glamorizes criminal culture and poses more excuses and rationalization for the criminal than justice or protection for the victim.

You can be a "nice guy" all you want and it isnt going to change the gang of thugs down the street. It'll just make you an easy target.

well if thats the type of society you like then you are welcome to it. But dont criticise the uk and its guns laws. As you can see at least we have a society where I can walk past a gang of thugs just by saying hello......

I'd love to know what you are smoking because the water-tight gun laws in the UK have resulted in a surge of gang-weapons and the criminals being better armed than the police.
Nearly all (99%) of gun-crime are criminals with black-marked firearms.
Hell even some militant citizens are turning to it to get guns rather than legally!

Originally posted by devilwasp
To clarify points of "no guns" in the UK, I've used up to 7.62mm rifles since I was 14.

www.met.police.uk...
This is the SO-19 section of the met force (snodnol police force.)

Pistols are restricted to .22 milimetre and I dont think they are semi automatic. Even still a .22 is still deady enough, but then again who needs a .22 when you have a good old shotgun.

Tony Blair (God curse the man) banned them when he came into power! Tw*t.
You can own 'long-arm' pistols with a metal bracer and long barrel.
I've seen dirty harry .44 magnum used with one of these.

If you are a deer hunter you can own 'short' semi-auto pistols now for 'humane dispatch' of deer at close range.

This makes me think that if the current administration in the United states, and even the lawmakers in the UK really cared for the populations, they would repeal any gun bans and encourage people to have guns to protect themselves from terrorists, since they say terrorists are everywhere, plus there is absolutely no way any government can always protect people from these things.
But since we all know the real reason they dont like guns plus many forces at work trying to ban guns through various methods, is all about controlling people, not helping people defend themselves.

Guns are one of the subjects that two US and the UK will never, ever agree on. We should probably stop trying!

A few points though:

We've never had a gun culture comparable to the US. I often see American posters on here talking about how the government took "our" guns, as if every home was packing heat before and now there's a big empty gun cabinet covered in dust. A very small percentage of the population owned guns before the Hungerford massacre, and now that number is even smaller.

Getting a gun in the UK is actually fairly easy. As i've often said on here, my house has a shotgun in the attic. It was my dad's from when he used to live on a farm. The police come round every 5 years and check it. He's never been a part of the gun club, and he has no real reason to have one anymore. We now live in the suburbs of Birmingham -The reason most people don't have a gun, is because most people don't want one.

There's no bears or cougars to protect yourself from in Britain.

Lots of people in the countryside still have guns. A stroll through the beautiful countryside of North Worcestershire on a sunday will often be accompanied by the popping of shotguns in the distance.

You believe guns ensure your freedom. That's fine. I prefer voting.

Interesting things about the US and UK and guns.

The state of Nevada has more guns then the UK but a lot less people.
The state of Nevada has less gun crime then the UK.(in many cases its not a crime to shoot a criminal IN Nevada)
It is easy to get a CCW in Nevada to carry a concealed weapon. even residents of Calif can get a CCW in Nevada.
There are more armed security officers in Nevada then cops.
and security officers back up cops and act as a auxiliary to the LEOs in Nevada when needed.
The state of Nevada has more full auto weapons permit holders then any other state.
You can carry a loaded weapon in a car without needing a permit in much of Nevada.
CCW holders from the states of
Alaska
Arkansas
Kansas
Louisiana
Michigan
Missouri
Nebraska
Ohio
Tennessee
West Virginia
May carry under there state permits in Nevada.(you need to check just in-case, they change there list every year.)plus it is illegal in Clark County to carry a gun into a casino and certain other locations where guns are allowed elsewhere in the state.
Nevada still allows for loaded open carry without a permit. There are a lot of cowboys in Nevada.
In some counties of Nevada a home owner can shoot a home intruder and the local cops have said they will not charge the homeowner.
In Nevada its not uncommon for armed locals to backup rural LEOs when they are making felony stops alone when the next nearest LEO may be a half hour or more away.
In Nevada you will get more jail time for a crime then in the UK.


Don't believe that all of the US has a lot of gun crime.
A armed citizen is a polite citizen.

If you are a criminal don't come to Nevada.
The state saying for criminals is "come to Nevada for vacation leave on probation."

Guess all of you UK chaps need to take up running since you cant own guns. Just gotta out run the fella next to ya if the whatnot hits the fan.

Guns are not the only means of defense, or attack, in my neck of the woods, guns are aplenty and there are enough shops selling the real thing.

However it is to me a cultural choice, I notice some here on ATS from the US mentioning they would like to shoot Public technology, like public cameras..

Where as culturally, my way, they use explosives to deal with that same issue.. They have the guns, but prefer explosives.. it's boils down to a cultural choice.

The experience in making the black stuff from scratch for these purposes runs back over 400 years.. as does the dislike for being told what to do by the government.. which has been trying to stamp out the practice for 150 years..

But back on topic in a survival situation they can make things that go bang, in whatever weapon form they choose or is available. I would say this could be seen by some as preferable over specialised guns where you don't have the skill to make all the required bits and bullets to keep the gun working.

Again it is only a cultural difference..