A Chinese's opinion

One defend many again !

Originally posted by Baphomet79
skywalker you started the fight, defend it.

Word of a caution simply quoting someone else's post is generally frowned upon at ATS. If you are going to make a post, make sure you're opinions and ideas are included in it, not simply those of other posters.

If there is war between the US and China in the future:
No way the US will win the war without nuclear attack;
But China has missile as well, think the consequence for both sides.

Even if china does fire missles, I dought that it will even reach the United States because of the missle defense system especially the lasers strapped on the boeing 747s that could shoot down multiple missles within seconds.

Originally posted by jskywalker

One defend many again !

A failure to communicate?

Originally posted by wildcat

Originally posted by st3ve_o
I actually agree with you, i've always said no country could beat China in a war.



[edit on 19-11-2006 by st3ve_o]

I wonder if China would fall if another country studies Gengis Khan tatics and the way he conquered them.

China is having some seriuos problems alot of ppl dont know about. I wouldnt be suprised if there banking sector collapses sometime here within the next year.

Originally posted by jskywalker

One defend many again !

Originally posted by Baphomet79
skywalker you started the fight, defend it.

Word of a caution simply quoting someone else's post is generally frowned upon at ATS. If you are going to make a post, make sure you're opinions and ideas are included in it, not simply those of other posters.

Wo juede ni de Yingwen shi tebie buhao, keshi, ni shuo shenme le? (Sorry I am to lazy to install Chinese characters on my new computer right now.) But what the heck are you talking about?

[edit on 19-11-2006 by Baphomet79]

There is one big problem I see with China that is not going to change anytime soon but I don't see in Japan and to a lesser extent in South Korea or even Taiwan.

China is a copy cat society that in not an innovator and it runs on its past glories and ideals.

The other countries I mention have innovation occurring in their societies which gives them a strength that China does not have.

China is like the teenager that is very big and strong but not that bright.

Originally posted by ishmail

The chinese have you fooled my friend. They have undervalued their currency with the goal of taking your last penny during your thirst for chinese goods. How much ahve they undervalued it? I am no economist. However, according to CIA factbook, Chinese GDP is @ $8.9T.

Thing is, at the end of the day this kind of currency intervention is worse for China than it is for the USA - although in the short-medium term it's bad for the States and creates imbalances like the widening trade deficit. For now it creates a cheap yuan and an expensive dollar, making Chinese goods look especially cheap to American householders. This helps drive China's growth, creating markets for its goods and piquing the interest of foreign investors keen to take advantage of its artifically cheap labour.
However, China is creating an enormous future loss by acting the way it does. The most valuable part of its foreign reserves - its enormous stash of USD - is artificially high due to its own actions. As soon as China is unable to continue to maintain the value of the USD through its strategic purchases on the currency and bond markets, the value of its largest asset plummets. Not good news for china

Im not sure either one of us can gauge this number accurately. However, I do know that if China continues to upgrade, and the US does nothing to protect or phase out its carriers, china will continue to stalk and surprise, undectected. www.washtimes.com...

Think again...

china would be hard press to get a nuclear missle outa china let alone anywhere near the US where theres a good chance it would be shot down by a patriot defense system (anti missle battery)
i cant believe china could have many victorys over the US in a war right now
but sure who knows what way things will be in a few years time

Originally posted by jskywalker
知彼知己，方能百战百胜
How many of you can read those Chinese words?

It merely translate as "To win hundreds of wars, you have to understand yourself and your opponent".

Originally posted by damefool
It merely translate as "To win hundreds of wars, you have to understand yourself and your opponent".

How about too lose a thousand. For every war China has won its lost quite a few. They'd be speaking Japanese right now if it wasn't for the US in WWII.

Originally posted by danwild6
They'd be speaking Japanese right now if it wasn't for the US in WWII.

How so?.

Originally posted by jskywalker
How many of you can read those Chinese words?

It’s great that you can communicate in more than one language and still be kind enough to tame down and shorten a quote from Sun Tzu as not to be offensive.

But the quote was meant to be provocative, so I will treat your post as such.

You make some very broad assumptions.

Originally posted by jskywalker
That was the “UN” (US, UK, France and so many countries) against one communist country: China (Russia supported China weapons), ended Chinese won the war.

I didn’t take long to get to the “All your base are belong to us” part did it?

...NK sought martial support from Stalin, yes...and received equipment instead. NK attacked SK, yes. NK initiated a ‘surprise attack’. There were almost no US soldiers in Korea at the time and China did not initiate the war…they were all still in Japan. The US (and other allies) intervened on behalf of the UN. The Chinese did not enter the war until a little over four months. No one ‘won’ the war it was a stalemate and the UN (it was the UN’s regional conflict) decided to go with India’s plan.

BTW…if China was so powerful then…why was there a need for the US (and the British) to fight the Japanese for your country?

Originally posted by jskywalker
And the white come from different origin too, British, French, Italian, and millions east Europeans,…

If half the people in the US (as you say) do not want war with Iran (or where ever)…just may be that means they do not want war…why would any one want war?

Perhaps it is you that wants war as you state:

Originally posted by jskywalker
…Americans will never vote together to attach China unless China attack first, unfortunately Chinese won’t do that.

mg

Originally posted by chinawhite
How so?.

Oh you've got to be kidding. The Japanese attacked the US in the first place because of our opposition to Japan's invasion of China. The Japanese were still on the offensive in China when they surrendered to the US. The Chinese fought each other as much as(if not more)than you fought the Japanese.

Originally posted by jskywalker
Yes, with a dozen of aircraft carriers in pacific, the US is much stronger, so what?
To appease North Korea, you have to talk to China first.

We aren't really interested in appeasing North Korea, which will eventually starve to death, end up with a military coup, or make one tiny wrong move and be annilated. China has been given busy work while the US decides what to do.

That was the “UN” (US, UK, France and so many countries) against one communist country: China (Russia supported China weapons), ended Chinese won the war.

Apparently the same 5 year olds you have manufacturing the cheap crapola you ship over here are writing your text books too. The Korean war is has never ended there is a cease fire that's all. If China was so strong they would have figured out a way for North and South to reconcile as one communist state but alas South Korea is a democracy.

America is too democratic.

You're funny!

Without the American people support, the US government will be useless, a recent vote shows that less than 50% of the Americans support war to Iran

There was never a vote on that, so much for state sponsered news.

Think about your country, America is multicultural country, half white, half other colours, came from different countries, and people selfish. Millions of white, millions of black, when the black have problem, the white do not help.

Our diversity is our strength. Racism is ugly and ugly always gets attention. There are millions of people who live in ethnically mixed harmonious regions of our country. New York, Atlanta, Chicago, Boston...

And the white come from different origin too, British, French, Italian, and millions east Europeans, Americans will never vote together to attach China unless China attack first, unfortunately Chinese won’t do that.

Well since the only "country" that China is comfortable threatening is Taiwan, I rest assured that China isn't the military power it once was. Face it Hong Kong has turned into the same putrid stinkhole any third world nation turns into once the empire that made it something leaves.

And as far as your military technology? It's all ten year old US technology that China stole, except for that stupid hiccup of a president Bill Clinton who thought it was a good idea to "share".

Your country has regions that are so polluted, the river water cannot be cleaned enough to consume. You kill people for their organs. Right now your country is rounding up pet dogs and clubbing them to death rather than supply an inexpensive and effective vaccine. Your people kill female babies by drowning them in buckets. Your gov't won't even acknowledge an aids epidemic in your country and the WHO had to beg for samples of bird flu so they could study it-this took months.

Frankly even with the capitalistic boom in Beijing, I am not sure that your backwards country could get out of it's own way long enough to involve itself in a war with anyone who wasn't a tiny island right off it's coast.

So much for a career in the diplomatic corps-John Bolton is my hero!

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by danwild6
They'd be speaking Japanese right now if it wasn't for the US in WWII.

How so?.

The US had nothing to do with it....they entered WWII long after the Second Sino Japanese War, which is probably the closest that China has ever come to being taken over.

1938, the Second Sino Japanese War and Japan taking over Nanjing (capital at the time) and then on to Wuhan (where the ROC relocated it's capital). Although, neither side really won the Battle of Wuhan....the Japanese could have toppled the Chinese Government, but, imo, the Chinese people would never surrender to Japan.

[edit on 19/11/2006 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by SportyMB
The US had nothing to do with it....they entered WWII long after the Second Sino Japanese War, which is probably the closest that China has ever come to being taken over.

We entered the war because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Tell me have you ever asked yourself why Japan attacked the US Fleet at Pearl Harbor?

The League of Nations, the U.S., the UK, Australia, and the Netherlands, which had territorial interests in Southeast Asia and the Philippines, disapproved of the Japanese attacks on China, condemning them and applying diplomatic pressure. Japan resigned from the League of Nations in response. In July 1939, the U.S. terminated the 1911 U.S./Japanese commerce treaty, which both showed official disapprobation and removed legal barriers to imposition of trade embargoes. Japan continued its military campaign in China and signed the Anti-Comintern Pact with Nazi Germany, formally ending World War I hostilities, and declaring common interests. In 1940, Japan signed the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Fascist Italy to form the Axis Powers.

These Japanese actions led the U.S. to embargo scrap metal and gasoline, and to close the Panama Canal to Japanese shipping. The situation worsened, and in 1941 Japan moved into northern Indochina. The U.S. response was to freeze Japan's assets in the U.S. and to declare a complete oil embargo.[1] Oil was Japan's most crucial resource; her own supplies were very limited, and 80% of Japan's imports came from the U.S. The Imperial Navy relied entirely on imported bunker oil stocks.[2]

There was considerable division in the Japanese high command. The Army wanted to "go south", intending to capture oil and mineral reserves in the Dutch East Indies. The Navy was certain this would bring the U.S. into the war. To forestall American interference, an attack on the Pacific Fleet was considered essential. (The certainty of American aid to Britain in the Pacific is far from clear, and was even at the time.)

Originally posted by SportyMB
1938, the Second Sino Japanese War and Japan taking over Nanjing (capital at the time) and then on to Wuhan (where the ROC relocated it's capital). Although, neither side really won the Battle of Wuhan....the Japanese could have toppled the Chinese Government, but, imo, the Chinese people would never surrender to Japan.

The Chinese people may have surrendered or fought to the death but the facts are without the US defeating Japan the Sino-Japanese War would have gone on and on. Maybe China would have prevailed in the end... maybe but I guarantee China would be a very different place regardless.

Originally posted by jskywalker
Interesting topics you have so far discussed here : attack China, war wich China, and so on. As a Chinese, I would like to express my opinion.

I have seen very few people say we should do that.

知彼知己，方能百战百胜
How many of you can read those Chinese words?

A few, but there is no reason for us to have to, we speak the
language we were brought up around, we have no need to
learn Chinese.

But we know you very well. We know your language, your culture, your history, your people, almost everything apart from those "top CIA secret and top weapons".

You can't truly know a nation unless you were raised there.

If your pentagon could launch attack to China, they would do it decades ago.

Why whould we want to, China is not that much of a threat to us,
we could have destroyed China during the Krean war, infact McArthur
wanted to nuke you guys into oblivion, but the people in charge
saw that as a bad idea, which it would have been.

If there is war between the US and China in the future:
No way the US will win the war without nuclear attack;
But China has missile as well, think the consequence for both sides.

True we would most likely resort to using nuclear weapons,
but only after we'd exhausted any other alternatives.

It does'nt matter if China has nuclear weapons and ICBMs, all we'd
have to do is lauch a few dozen stealth missiles with nukes on them
and we could just take out your nuclear facilities, and any other
points we wanted to destroy, and you would'nt even know it until the
missiles hit.

Yes, with a dozen of aircraft carriers in pacific, the US is much stronger, so what?
To appease North Korea, you have to talk to China first.

You provided your answer than asked the question..
We don't have to do anything, we choose to take the route that
will result in the most beneficial arrangement for us.

How many of you have heard of the Korean War?
www.bbc.co.uk...

I'd say about 90% of the population.

That was the “UN” (US, UK, France and so many countries) against
one communist country: China (Russia supported China weapons),
ended Chinese won the war.

No one won the war, technically it never ended, there is just an
armastice.

Every school kid in China knows the war because they were taught in school that China won the war. What about in the US? American kids hardly know what happened during 1950s because parents feel shamed to tell kids that US lost the war to China.

Parents are'nt teachers, so they don't have to, though many people,
especially those who served at the time, tell the future generations
of it, both good and bad.

We learn about the Korean war in school, we understand that no one
won the war.

America is too democratic.

Pure Maoist-communist bull.
Democracy is the only form of government that works, or that
should be allowed.

Without the American people support, the US government will be useless, a recent vote shows that less than 50% of the Americans support war to Iran. Unfortunately it is not case in China, when the Chinese government decide to go for a war, billions of Chinese will follow.

Ha!
The majority of people in America don't want the war, but we're
still fighting it.
And we are'nt even considering a war with Iran.

Yes, because you've been brainwashed into thinking your disgusting
government can do no wrong.

Think about your country, America is multicultural country, half white, half other colours, came from different countries, and people selfish. Millions of white, millions of black, when the black have problem, the white do not help.

We don't see ourselves as black and white, we see ourselves as
Americans, and if someone is in trouble, we help them, regardless
of there skin pigmentation.

And the white come from different origin too, British, French, Italian, and millions east Europeans, Americans will never vote together to attach China unless China attack first, unfortunately Chinese won’t do that.

Itallian people are classified as hiuspanic, not white.

If we see China as a threat, we'll attack it, it has nothing to do with
what color we are, or what country are ancestors came from.

So, I assume you want China to attack the U.S.?

A war to China should not be considered, it won’t happen.

It should be considered if China decides threaten us or any of our allies.

It will happen if it is deemed neccessary.

[edit on 11/19/2006 by iori_komei]

Originally posted by danwild6
We entered the war because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Tell me have you ever asked yourself why Japan attacked the US Fleet at Pearl Harbor?

I'm not saying why the US entered WWII....that's a completely different matter and quit a few years later. All the stuff I mentioned is before PH.

The last time that China has ever come close to being defeated by the Japanese was at the Second Sino Japanese War....mainly the Battle Of Wuhan, where the Chinese had to defend Wuhan, the newly established capital of China because Nanjing was taken over and the ROC could not make it all the way to Chonqing...so they set up half way in Wuhan. Neither side really won in terms of accomplishing their pre-battle goals....this was 1938.

The Chinese people may have surrendered or fought to the death but the facts are without the US defeating Japan the Sino-Japanese War would have gone on and on. Maybe China would have prevailed in the end... maybe but I guarantee China would be a very different place regardless.

The facts are that after the Battle of Wuhan (1938), the next major attack from Japan to China was not until Operation Ichi-Go in 1944. China, with help from the USSR, fought the Second Sino Japanese war (on Chinese turf) alone...yeah there may have been a few skirmishes from other countreis here and there...but ALL the major battles were ROC vs. Japan...not UN, or US, or UK or anyone else aided in the SSJW.

Pearl Harbor was in 1941 (after the Battle at Wuhan) and ended in 1945, which also ended the SSJW and every other thing Japan had going on.

So back to the original point:

They'd be speaking Japanese right now if it wasn't for the US in WWII.

Imo, the Chinese prevented the Japanese from taking them over....there were not any major Japanese offensive attacks on China from 1938-1944, and this was not because the Japanese were occupied fighting the US, that wasn't until 1941....it was because China stood their ground, yeah they got beat earlier on at Nanjing, Shanghai, etc... but Wuhan (1938), even though they lost, was the turning point (in favor of the ROC) for the SSJW.

Second Sino Japanese War

Battle Of Wuhan
After four months of violent battles, the Chinese air force and naval force was essentially wiped out, and the Japanese occupied Wuhan. However, most of the Chinese troops survived, and the Japanese army was considerably weakened. The Japanese's pre-war hopes for a final showdown in Wuhan, to annihilate the main force of Chinese Army and forcing them to yield were unsuccessful. With numerous battles around Changsha, the China theatre now entered the stage of stalemate with no major Japanese offensives until Operation Ichi-Go in 1944.

Anyways, all this Japan vs. China stuff is a bit off topic....sorry

[edit on 19/11/2006 by SportyMB]

Okay I'll yield the point great info

Originally posted by stanstheman

Your country has regions that are so polluted, the river water cannot be cleaned enough to consume. You kill people for their organs. Right now your country is rounding up pet dogs and clubbing them to death rather than supply an inexpensive and effective vaccine. Your people kill female babies by drowning them in buckets. Your gov't won't even acknowledge an aids epidemic in your country and the WHO had to beg for samples of bird flu so they could study it-this took months.

This is another huge problem for china. A friend of mine who has visited china on a few occasions told me that there are severe infrastructure problems. For example, In the back countries, passing near factories, junk yards, and random fields, the roads, buildings, sidewalks, vehicles, etc, are falling apart in heaps. Litter collects in every corner. There are piles of junk, new junk, old junk, used junk, everywhere. He said he passed a brick factory with a 400 yard square filled with what must have been 100 million bricks or 1 billion bricks--but without much heavy equipment or trucks to move them, they aren't going any where. There are piles of everything, just waiting around, misallocated. Tires. Scrap metal. Rusty Bicycles. Paving stones. Lumber. And junk of every type, haphazardly classified, rotting. For miles.

The problem seems to be that the production, distribution, and maintenence of goods and materials is extraordinarily inefficient and wasteful. The semi-central management and un-fluid commodity market causes systemic and widespread inefficiencies. The efficiency lost, the labor wasted, and the capital tied up in overproduced or mismanaged, under maintained infrastructure and industries, coupled with a gluttonous surplus of cheap manual labor leads to what I would call labor for the sake of labor. Sidewalks in the cities are made of bricks; trees painted (by hand) for road markers. Entire overpass buttresses are hand-paved with stones. Concrete is going into the urban centers where high-rise apartments are poured literally from the ground up in a matter of a few weeks. The resulting buildings are subsequently under maintained and seem to last only a few decades before being replaced.

Cities are dirty. Surprisingly, with the surplus of labor, no value is placed on cleanliness. You won't find street sweepers or window washers in any but the most ritzy of areas in urban areas. Pollution and weather stain apartment complexes; they become dingy, dirty eyesores in the matter of a few years, eventually to be replaced by one or another "urban renewal" plan.

Real-estate prices do not drive development, but rather political and "renewal" concerns. It is not uncommon to have large, new, gleaming hotels and buildings be built with poor, dirty, and slummy areas literally mixed together. The broken window problem rears its ugly head and the buildings quickly degenerate. Placement, such as high-rise hotels thrusting up from slums, leads to under-utilization and ultimately, waste.

This is not an isolated phenomenon, but widespread and chronic. China has a long way to go before it ever becomes a developed country.

Many of the residents burn stoves and furnaces with unrefined coal and live in toxic pollutants that cause widespread respiratory problems and dirty everything in sight. Miles of forests planted along highways outside of urban areas yawn under a perpetual gray dust that gives the leaves an depressingly washed-out drabness. Litter collects everywhere along roads, train tracks, in fields along the country side. And disturbingly, human graves, just piles of pebbles, often unmarked, can be found along the railway tracks, and even in the fields where vegetables are grown.

[edit on 123030p://111 by semperfoo]