A Chinese's opinion

Interesting topics you have so far discussed here : attack China, war wich China, and so on. As a Chinese, I would like to express my opinion.

知彼知己，方能百战百胜

How many of you can read those Chinese words?

But we know you very well. We know your language, your culture, your history, your people, almost everything apart from those "top CIA secret and top weapons" .

If your pentagon could launch attack to China, they would do it decades ago.

If there is war between the US and China in the future:
No way the US will win the war without nuclear attack;
But China has missile as well, think the consequence for both sides.

Yes, with a dozen of aircraft carriers in pacific, the US is much stronger, so what?
To appease North Korea, you have to talk to China first.

How many of you have heard of the Korean War?
www.bbc.co.uk...

That was the “UN” (US, UK, France and so many countries) against one communist country: China (Russia supported China weapons), ended Chinese won the war.

Every school kid in China knows the war because they were taught in school that China won the war. What about in the US? American kids hardly know what happened during 1950s because parents feel shamed to tell kids that US lost the war to China.

A war is people’s war.

America is too democratic.
Without the American people support, the US government will be useless, a recent vote shows that less than 50% of the Americans support war to Iran. Unfortunately it is not case in China, when the Chinese government decide to go for a war, billions of Chinese will follow.

Think about your country, America is multicultural country, half white, half other colours, came from different countries, and people selfish. Millions of white, millions of black, when the black have problem, the white do not help.

And the white come from different origin too, British, French, Italian, and millions east Europeans, Americans will never vote together to attach China unless China attack first, unfortunately Chinese won’t do that.

A war to China should not be considered, it won’t happen.

I actually agree with you, i've always said no country could beat China in a war.

China's technogly is getting better and better all the time and their manpower of military trained people China have is equivent to US/UK/Russia all put together :O

I would also like to apologise to you on behalf of the English speaking world, it must be really insulting reading threads all the time about war on your nation, not everybody is war mad though, it just seems the majority on ATS are

It’s quite disturbing sometimes actually, when ive seen pictures of explosions or clips that have happened in Iraq, ATS members (mostly from America I might add) sound a little TOO over-excited by it, it’s like they have a massive wa-nk over it

[edit on 19-11-2006 by st3ve_o]

Originally posted by jskywalker
But China has missile as well, think the consequence for both sides.

Yes, however some of you're generals and policy leaders don't seem to be considering those consequences with some of the comments they have made.

Originally posted by jskywalker
Every school kid in China knows the war because they were taught in school that China won the war.

China did not "win" anything, the UN advanced close to the Chinese border and China purred a massive amount of troops and supplies into the war. US Generals wanted to use nuclear weapons but the leadership wouldn't allow it. The war ended in a stalemate at the 38th parallel where it began and still remains today.

Originally posted by jskywalker
What about in the US? American kids hardly know what happened during 1950s because parents feel shamed to tell kids that US lost the war to China.

Please do not presume to know what Americans are thought in school. And again, China did not "win" the war, you're being tought revisionist and selective history.

So despite the fact that China "won" the Korean War which is completely untrue; do they teach you in school how many soldiers your government sent to their deaths in relation to how many we (as Americans) lost? I think if they taught that in Chinese schools you might have a different opinion of your government. Although that was Mao, your glorious leader was completely insane by the way; the only bright thing I see about your government is that each consecutive leader seems to be more tolerable to the world than the last; Hu Jintao seems like an alright guy.

Originally posted by jskywalker
知彼知己，方能百战百胜

How many of you can read those Chinese words?

Not many mainly becaise they just come up as question marks on my screen.

Originally posted by jskywalker
But we know you very well. We know your language, your culture, your history, your people, almost everything apart from those "top CIA secret and top weapons".

Maybe but do you have the same view of it that we do?

Originally posted by jskywalker
If your pentagon could launch attack to China, they would do it decades ago.

Why?

Originally posted by jskywalker
If there is war between the US and China in the future:
No way the US will win the war without nuclear attack;
But China has missile as well, think the consequence for both sides.

The US would need to use nuclear weapons and would pretty much destroy China in the process. Chinese military missile technology however isn't nearly as advanced as US military tech. In fact Chinese ICBM can currently only be launched from the very North East of China and still be able to hit the US main land. China also lacks a early warning system capable of detecting a preemptive strike launched by the US.

Originally posted by jskywalker
Yes, with a dozen of aircraft carriers in pacific, the US is much stronger, so what?
To appease North Korea, you have to talk to China first.

Yes the US is asking for China's help in dealing with North Korea. It would be wise if China did help. If North Korea doesn't disarm then its only a matter of time before Japan also begins to rearm. How would China react to the Japanese developing an nuclear deterrent?

Originally posted by jskywalker
That was the “UN” (US, UK, France and so many countries) against one communist country: China (Russia supported China weapons), ended Chinese won the war.

That is a very simplistic and one sided view of the Korean War. I could just as easily say that the US, UN and South Korea won because South Korea is still independent which was the primary reason the US intervened in the first place(to protect the South Korea).

Originally posted by jskywalker
Every school kid in China knows the war because they were taught in school that China won the war. What about in the US? American kids hardly know what happened during 1950s because parents feel shamed to tell kids that US lost the war to China.

Ah no. The US with support from the UN intervened in Korea to stop North Koea's invasion of South Korea. After the US landing at Inchon North Korean forces retreated, allied(US, UN, South Korean)forces moved into North Korea to reunify the country. Allied force advanced far to fast and Gen. McArthur didn't believe China would intervene. He of course was wrong. China attacked and threw Allied force into retreat. However the Chinese advance was halted and even driven back a significant distance. The war grinded to a stalemate and thats where we are at today.

Originally posted by jskywalker
America is too democratic.
Without the American people support, the US government will be useless, a recent vote shows that less than 50% of the Americans support war to Iran. Unfortunately it is not case in China, when the Chinese government decide to go for a war, billions of Chinese will follow.

Well we were just as democratic during the second world war and in all previous wars. It does depend on how the American people view the war. We view the war in Iraq as a failure because it is not militarily winnable and not helpful to the war on terror. After 9-11 the American citizenry said in repeated polls that they would accept significant american casualties to win the war.

Originally posted by jskywalker
Think about your country, America is multicultural country, half white, half other colours, came from different countries, and people selfish. Millions of white, millions of black, when the black have problem, the white do not help.

I have to say you have a very misinformed view of the US and the American people

Originally posted by jskywalker
And the white come from different origin too, British, French, Italian, and millions east Europeans, Americans will never vote together to attach China unless China attack first, unfortunately Chinese won’t do that.

For someone who claims to know American culture you aren't that well informed

Originally posted by jskywalker
A war to China should not be considered, it won’t happen.

I don't think it is being seriously considered by anyone outside of immature teenagers with nothing else to do with their time.

Originally posted by jskywalker
Interesting topics you have so far discussed here : attack China, war wich China, and so on. As a Chinese, I would like to express my opinion.

知彼知己，方能百战百胜

How many of you can read those Chinese words?

But we know you very well. We know your language, your culture, your history, your people, almost everything apart from those "top CIA secret and top weapons" .

I fully agree with you on this one. Chinese Americans accumulate to roughly 1% of the total US population. Factor in American born Chinese citizens and Im sure this number will double or triple. With so many Chinese inside of the country, there could be a lot of unknowns in the event of a war. Surely there would be some sabatours, espionage, and riotting. But I think that that majority of Chinese would be sent to internment camps in hope of preventing such occurances. While i doubt a direct confrontation will materialize in the time being, I foresee several indirect and prozy wars happening in the next couple years before the eventual showdown. BTW China is on pace to equal America's GDP in 5 years. However, I think it could be twice of three times that amount of time before they could rival the US's expeditionary force.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
I actually agree with you, i've always said no country could beat China in a war.



[edit on 19-11-2006 by st3ve_o]

I wonder if China would fall if another country studies Gengis Khan tatics and the way he conquered them.

Originally posted by ishmail
I fully agree with you on this one.

On what? That we can't read Chinese.

Originally posted by ishmail
Chinese Americans accumulate to roughly 1% of the total US population. Factor in American born Chinese citizens and Im sure this number will double or triple. With so many Chinese inside of the country, there could be a lot of unknowns in the event of a war. Surely there would be some sabatours, espionage, and riotting.

Yeah we thought that way after Pearl Harbor only to be completely wrong.

Originally posted by ishmail
But I think that that majority of Chinese would be sent to internment camps in hope of preventing such occurances.

Yeah right. Just because we could do it 60yrs ago doesn't mean we can do it now.

Originally posted by ishmail
While i doubt a direct confrontation will materialize in the time being, I foresee several indirect and prozy wars happening in the next couple years before the eventual showdown.

That is more of a possibility.

Originally posted by ishmail
BTW China is on pace to equal America's GDP in 5 years.

The Chinese don't even think that

China $4 trillion GDP by 2020

However, I think it could be twice of three times that amount of time before they could rival the US's expeditionary force.

If your talking naval power China won't challenge the US until 2040 at the earliest.

Originally posted by danwild6

Originally posted by jskywalker
知彼知己，方能百战百胜



Yes the US is asking for China's help in dealing with North Korea. It would be wise if China did help. If North Korea doesn't disarm then its only a matter of time before Japan also begins to rearm. How would China react to the Japanese
" "


- Well I read that China has a game called Anti-Japan online which is supported by their government and it's something about World War 2. Gives me a thought that the Chinese still haven't gotten over Japan invading them. The US has forgiven Japan for Pearl Harbor and we now are great friends. But the question I ask is who is more mature?

[edit on 19-11-2006 by wildcat]

My undo button doesn't work

[edit on 19-11-2006 by wildcat]

[edit on 19-11-2006 by wildcat]

I think your patriotism is erasing facts. China's GDP won't overrun the US's GDP in 5 years, if anything I heard it will be in about 2050.

Most Americans don't care about China, so I don't know why you think so many want to attack China. The only thing we really see anything about China over here is the label on shirts and toys...and also the Chinese restaurants.

And militarily...China has gotten huge amounts of tech from Russia and other countries (even Israel gave them some!). Guess where Israel got their tech from? Yup...so I don't really know why you think China will basically wipe the floor with the US.

And you must understand something...it is called global economy. The benefits far outweigh the costs right now. The US and EU invest the most and buy the most from China. China also invests in the US and European countries. If there was a war between East and West economies will topple, and we all know China is most concerned about economic growth at the moment.

NO large echonomicaly developed country can "Win" a war against another large country anymore due to the certinty of MAD if one side begins to lose a conventional war.

Originally posted by wildcat
- Well I read that China has a game called Anti-Japan online which is supported by their government and it's something about World War 2. Gives me a thought that the Chinese still haven't gotten over Japan invading them. The US has forgiven Japan for Pearl Harbor and we now are great friends. But the question I ask is who is more mature?

ever heard a game called "battle field" developed by EA???

the world war 2 game (sino-japan war) that you were talking about is run by a private game company.

Please, no one flame him for this (though disagreeing isn't flaming). Also try to stay away from words that are too confusing since he isn't a native speaker.



jskywalker:

Great that you posted here, insight from someone living under the teachings of another nation are always valuable.


You have to remember your government (Chinese) censors things and only teaches the history they want. You will never get the whole story (in America it is not illegal to do so) from the teachers in China.

Now the Korean War. There was not really a win or a loss, it ended in a tie. No one can claim victory.


A war between China and the United States of America would be interesting. We have to be afraid of nuclear weapons, though. If they are used many innocent people will die and no one wants that. China is a very capable country but is not built up enough to defeat the United States. I do not think that we could conquer China either. It seems that if our countries fought, a fast and easy victory would not come.


The United States also needs China for trade, and China needs the United States for trade. If we went to war, many people would lose money and that would hurt everyone.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by Johnmike]

Originally posted by danwild6

On what? That we can't read Chinese.

No. The fact is that there are much more chinese living the the US than vice versa. You have been infiltrated.

Originally posted by danwild6

The Chinese don't even think that

China $4 trillion GDP by 2020

The chinese have you fooled my friend. They have undervalued their currency with the goal of taking your last penny during your thirst for chinese goods. How much ahve they undervalued it? I am no economist. However, according to CIA factbook, Chinese GDP is @ $8.9T.

If your talking naval power China won't challenge the US until 2040 at the earliest.

Im not sure either one of us can gauge this number accurately. However, I do know that if China continues to upgrade, and the US does nothing to protect or phase out its carriers, china will continue to stalk and surprise, undectected. www.washtimes.com...

Understandable, thanks for your post.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
I actually agree with you, i've always said no country could beat China in a war.

China's technogly is getting better and better all the time and their manpower of military trained people China have is equivent to US/UK/Russia all put together :O

I would also like to apologise to you on behalf of the English speaking world, it must be really insulting reading threads all the time about war on your nation, not everybody is war mad though, it just seems the majority on ATS are

It’s quite disturbing sometimes actually, when ive seen pictures of explosions or clips that have happened in Iraq, ATS members (mostly from America I might add) sound a little TOO over-excited by it, it’s like they have a massive wa-nk over it

[edit on 19-11-2006 by st3ve_o]

skywalker you started the fight, defend it.

Word of a caution simply quoting someone else's post is generally frowned upon at ATS. If you are going to make a post, make sure you're opinions and ideas are included in it, not simply those of other posters.

Originally posted by wildcat
- Well I read that China has a game called Anti-Japan online which is supported by their government and it's something about World War 2. Gives me a thought that the Chinese still haven't gotten over Japan invading them. The US has forgiven Japan for Pearl Harbor and we now are great friends. But the question I ask is who is more mature?

I got the message wildcat I believe one of our greatest cultural assets is our national character. That is we define ourselves by our triumphs in peace and in war not on ancient glory and historical grudges. We have a very short collective memory, however much of the world can't forget some now meaningless incident that happened 200-300 oor more years ago. To bad the whole world doesn't take after America

You have to remember your government (Chinese) censors things and only teaches the history they want. You will never get the whole story (in America it is not illegal to do so) from the teachers in China.

That was true in China unfortunately, probably ten years ago.

We have tens of thousands of Chinese going to the US and UK each year to learn western knowledge and techology. Like me, a postgraduate doing Computer Science in the UK. I have been staying in the UK for about 2 years, and I have been to the US once for a university visit. I get the whole story, I know exactly what happened.

No one like to remember dirty, shameful and unfaithful past, and so your american media.

What about the vietnam war ? Every American kid heard of it. You American won, so you praises American heros in the media, then stories covered in the movies, songs and children's books .

Now the Korean War. There was not really a win or a loss, it ended in a tie. No one can claim victory.

Well, we are still proud of that because that was one fight many, not one to one.

A war between China and the United States of America would be interesting. We have to be afraid of nuclear weapons, though. If they are used many innocent people will die and no one wants that. China is a very capable country but is not built up enough to defeat the United States. I do not think that we could conquer China either. It seems that if our countries fought, a fast and easy victory would not come.

I admit that the US military is much stronger, however if there is war between the US and China, that will be a nuclear war and that will be the end of both sides.

Originally posted by ishmail
No. The fact is that there are much more chinese living the the US than vice versa. You have been infiltrated.

Mindless fear mongering garbage. How many Japanese Americans turned against the US during WWII? How many German or Italian Ameicans? Please history shows how wrong you are.

Originally posted by ishmail
The chinese have you fooled my friend. They have undervalued their currency with the goal of taking your last penny during your thirst for chinese goods. How much ahve they undervalued it? I am no economist. However, according to CIA factbook, Chinese GDP is @ $8.9T.

GDP by PPP(Purchasing Power Parity)is useful for somethings but as a measure of a nations total wealth Nominal GDP stats give a more complete picture.

Originally posted by ishmail
Im not sure either one of us can gauge this number accurately. However, I do know that if China continues to upgrade, and the US does nothing to protect or phase out its carriers, china will continue to stalk and surprise, undectected.

Please ishmail your right when you say we can't accurately gauge what China's navy will look like compared to the USN in 2040. But what makes you think you know what the USN is or is not doing in regard to China's miitary build up?

Originally posted by jskywalker
That was true in China unfortunately, probably ten years ago.

We have tens of thousands of Chinese going to the US and UK each year to learn western knowledge and techology. Like me, a postgraduate doing Computer Science in the UK. I have been staying in the UK for about 2 years, and I have been to the US once for a university visit. I get the whole story, I know exactly what happened.

Good I'm glad you know the truth or at least how we see it from over here.

Originally posted by jskywalker
No one like to remember dirty, shameful and unfaithful past, and so your american media.

Yeah and your Communist Party.

Originally posted by jskywalker
What about the vietnam war ? Every American kid heard of it. You American won, so you praises American heros in the media, then stories covered in the movies, songs and children's books .

Really? What kids have you been talking to? As far as the media portrays the war in Vietnam I can think of Hamburger Hill, Platoon, Apocolypse Now and Rambo hardly war propoganda if you ask me.

Originally posted by jskywalker
Well, we are still proud of that because that was one fight many, not one to one.

And we're proud of our role because we fought to defend a small nation from an aggressor.

Originally posted by jskywalker
I admit that the US military is much stronger, however if there is war between the US and China, that will be a nuclear war and that will be the end of both sides.

Yeah war as a whole isn't ever good. Its a waste. Totally and completely. For everybody.