Kerry is Rove's October Surprise!

Any of you attempting to apply logic to Kerry's statement have simply demonstrated your lack of understanding logic.

First of all, many of our soldiers serving in Iraq are COLLEGE GRADUATES serving in the NATIONAL GUARD! Both my Cousin and Uncle have college degrees, the former in Pre-law waiting to attend law school and the latter has his Masters in Electrical Engineering! I'm willing to bet that either one of them are twice as intelligent as Kerry - who can't even properly pronounce "Ghengis Khan"!!!

There is no excuse for his comments! He has history of disparaging our military and it's servicemen and women and anybody who attempts to give him a pass on his comments is as guilty as he is in disparaging our troops.

Plain and simple, Kerry is a treasonous LIAR who should be dealt the greatest punishment afforded such a crime. His statements continue to harden the resolve of our enemies and lead to more US service personnel deaths! He did it Vietnam and he is doing it now. There is no excuse for this man's continued existence in public service! He should be Censured NOW!!!

Kerry was in the military only because his repeated requests for deferment were denied.

He was in Vietnam for just three months. Three months and three scratches and he took an early out.

This statement from Kerry is actually TYPICAL of him. Ya'll remember the Winter Soldier investigations (lies)??? He actually got people to swear under oath that they were veterans and that they saw US soldiers commit crimes in Vietnam ... But those people weren't even vets and most went into hiding after being discovered as frauds.

Kerry should have been sent to prison for that one. His buddy Ted Kennedy managed to keep him out of jail. Now Kerry is Kennedy's puppet.

Kerry has a very long history of trashing American troops. His latest statement is a reminder of exactly how low he thinks of them.

His 'cover' was even worse ... claiming that he was bashing Bush's grades .. HA HA HA .. Bush got better grades than Kerry did in school. What a freak'n buffon.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
It's obvious Bush & Co. are just trying to drum up the anti-Kerry sentiment for the November elections.

No it's not.

Kerry isn't running so no one would make that effort. And frankly, if Kerry were running no one would have to make that effort. Kerry stepped in 'it' all by himself.

Hillary and Dean are both saying that Kerry screwed up and are calling for him to apologize. So is Harold Ford Jr. (I really like this guy!!) Just about everyone in Kerry's own party knows that Kerry meant exactly what he said .. he trashed the 'smarts' of the troops. Which of course is totally keeping in the Kerry tradition (Winter Soldier Investigations).

"Bush & Co." didn't have to drum up anything .. Kerry did it all himself.

SHAME on all of you who are stating that the military is basically full of idiots and underachievers (paraphrasing)!!!!!!!

How many of you on this board can fly a jet fighter; sail an aircraft carrier; drive a submarine; drive a tank?; navigate; or even fire an M-16 for that matter!!!!!

It is really very sad to see this opinion of the brave men and women of the US Armed Forces!!!!!!

It's by their actions that you all are even able to discuss these things on a website, talk about them, travel when and where you want. Again, SHAME on all of you!!!!!

Originally posted by FlyersFan


"Bush & Co." didn't have to drum up anything .. Kerry did it all himself.

Again, the government is a one-party sham now and they toss up Kerry to say something stupid like that. I wonder how much $$$$ Kerry got for that speech?

I could at least feel better if i knew he said it for money.

I agree, though. He said it, it came out of his mouth, and it was highly insulting.
Whatever the reason.

Whatever ATS members think about what Kerry meant or what his words implied isn't important. I think that everyone here who is eligible to vote has already made their mind up; Kerry's words won't make a difference to us.

But the last I heard, there are at least 10% of eligible voters out there that are still "undecided". This may influence some of their vote. The other voting block that may be energized by this is the Republican base, of which many were leaning toward staying home next Tuesday. This may just get them out to vote. And the elections are less than a week away; time is running short.

Does anyone watch Hannity? He interviewed Bush this week. He made a comment at the end of his show Monday saying that there was still an October surprise coming, but he was not at liberty to discuss it at this point. I wonder what it might be..?

At the risk of being flamed by people who are incapable of reading past the emotional context of issues I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective. And don't get me wrong, I'm not attempting to defend Sen Kerry, merely offer a slightly different point of view.

In actual fact, Sen. Kerry did not insult or demean our service people. He did not imply it either. People have inferred from his statement that he demeaned service men and women in Iraq. What he essentially said was that if you (the college students that he was addressing) didn't study hard and excel in college that they could end up stuck in Iraq. Keep in mind, Sen. Kerry's frame of reference comes from the period of the war in Vietnam. During that time there was a draft in place. There was a national lottery and every draft-age male received a number according to their birthday. People were called-up according to their number. Other than medical deferments, the only way to stay out of the draft was by virtue of a student deferment. And to keep your student deferment you had to keep your grades up. If your number was low enough and your grades slipped low enough for you to lose your student deferment you'd be called-up.

With the war in Iraq grinding on and increasing calls for more troops, these people are going to have to come from some where. As has been pointed out, there are alot of well educated people in the active military. But as has also been pointed out, the bulk of the boots-on-the-ground regular military didn't get there by dropping out of Harvard Law to serve their country. There are 9 people in my extended family that are or have recently served in Iraq or Afghanistan in the regular Army. In every case college was not an option and they joined because they felt the military was the best available option for them.

What Sen. Kerry said was not particularly well word-smithed. Personally, however, I don't believe he would say something to demean the troops. He was attempting to demean the administration and didn't choose his words with enough care.

And mispronouncing Genghis Khan? Are you serious??? How about Pres. Bush and his incessant 'nukular'? After six years you'd think someone would correct him. Talk about petty...

Originally posted by Nygdan
People are upset because they don't like it when people say 'our soldiers are a bunch of dumbasses who can't hack it in real life'.

With all due respect Nygdan, and I really mean that! Most people use that phrase as a polite way to say 'screw you', but I really want all respect due to you, which is a lot! I've been a fan of your posts, and I think we agree on most issues. But here comes the 'but'...

I've spent six years in the Army, about six months in Iraq at the very beginning, and, IMMHO (the extra 'M' stands for 'most') I think the field of thought of 'our soldiers are a bunch of dumbasses who can't hack it in real life' actually is accurate for the majority of Army personnel I have encountered.

That's part of the reason why I stayed so long, and also why I left so early.

In response to to original poster:

Rich people don't fight wars (Cheney got five deferments to get him out of getting 'stuck' in Vietnam. Five times Cheney's country asked him to fight, and he said 'NO'. Kerry goes and is vilified?!)

People who wrap themselves in the flag, closing your eyes, and sticking your head in the ground isn't going to solve the issue. And some could argue that the government doesn't want to solve the issue, because it keeps a steady supply of recruits who have no choice, unlike Cheney or Bush, but to get 'stuck' fighting in some fruitless campaign, just to provide a better life for their family, all at the expense of the rich elite who view them as fodder.

Screw the Vietnam analogy, Iraq is starting to look like WWI!



[edit on 1-11-2006 by curme]

Originally posted by curme
And since Bush was born and raised in Vermont. Went to the most expensive, elite schools all his life and used his family to not get 'stuck' in Vietnam, he shouldn't really be criticize others who aren't rich enough, and are unable to get out of getting 'stuck' in stupid wars.

I was wrong when I said that. I was drunk, and wrong. Once I sobered-up, I realized what I meant to say was:

And since Bush was born in Connecticut. Went to the most expensive, elite schools in Massachusetts and used his family to not get 'stuck' in Vietnam, he shouldn't really criticize others who aren't rich enough, and are unable to get out of getting 'stuck' in stupid wars.

My drunkenness is not an excuse for my error, but an explanation.

The majority of my errors are caused by my ignorance, but I have a somewhat valid explanation for this one!

Originally posted by kozmo
First of all, many of our soldiers serving in Iraq are COLLEGE GRADUATES serving in the NATIONAL GUARD!

Kerry didn't say all soldiers are idiots or anything like that. You're making that up.

Originally posted by KnowItAll
SHAME on all of you who are stating that the military is basically full of idiots and underachievers (paraphrasing)!!!!!!!

Yes, you would have to "paraphrase" (more accurately, totally manufacture) wouldn't you? Because NO ONE is saying that!

Originally posted by jtma508
In actual fact, Sen. Kerry did not insult or demean our service people. He did not imply it either. People have inferred from his statement that he demeaned service men and women in Iraq.

Excellent! Exactly!




[edit on 1-11-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

'What Sen. Kerry said was not particularly well word-smithed. Personally, however, I don't believe he would say something to demean the troops. He was attempting to demean the administration and didn't choose his words with enough care"




Then, i suggest he come out from wherever he is and clarify it. I also took it as a slam against this government, but lots of people out there took it literally.


....And Jsobecky, are you implying this is the October surprise? How, unless what i said before that Kerry's in bed with Rove?

[edit on 1-11-2006 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by dgtempe
'What Sen. Kerry said was not particularly well word-smithed. Personally, however, I don't believe he would say something to demean the troops. He was attempting to demean the administration and didn't choose his words with enough care"




Then, i suggest he come out from wherever he is and clarify it. I also took it as a slam against this government, but lots of people out there took it literally.


....And Jsobecky, are you implying this is the October surprise? How, unless what i said before that Kerry's in bed with Rove?

[edit on 1-11-2006 by dgtempe]

DG, HE DID! He said it after the speech, the next day, and today! That is three days of him clarifying that he was calling Bush an Idiot. Read my post before this one and click on the links.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
So, aside from the general hatred of Kerry, what is the complaint about his comments?

The implication of his words.

The implication that going to Iraq is the only option for those who cannot excel academically.

The implication that those who can excel academically do not choose to serve in Iraq.

The implication that academic success is somehow more important than success in life's other endeavors.

But most importantly, the implication that it is somehow shameful to serve in Iraq.

All the above is Rush or Fox news talking points.




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[edit on 1-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

I listened to Mr. Kerry's remarks in their entirety and he WAS NOT illuding to the idea that Americans dwelling around the poverty line with no access to decent education will wind up in the armed services fighting in Iraq - even if it does hold a little truth. He was, without a doubt, talking about the Bush administration not doing the appropriate research needed to conduct the occupation of Iraq. So if this is the "October Suprise", it is a pathetic one. I am suprised at the medias coverage of something so trivial in the context of other current events. That really gets on my nerves.

blog.johnkerry.com...

Want find this on FOX NEWS.

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[edit on 1-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

John Kerry's apology was a load of crap. You don't apologize by first placing the blame on others. What he basically said was " I am sorry YOU misinterpreted what I said". Typical from a Democrat. Everyone seems to be missing one of the points of this though. The simple fact is......

John Kerry, acting in typical Democrat mode, was too busy trying to find some room to insert some Bush-Bashing where he should have been talking about education issues to a collegiate audience. This is typical among many Democrats. Do you also remember another occasion, like, at the Mrs. King funeral, where some Democrats just HAD to bring in the bush-bashing despite it NOT being the time or place? (at least to a DECENT human being!)

Well...............do you?

John Kerry stands for one thing and one thing only, and he plays to one group of constituents only, and those are THOSE WHO HATE BUSH.

Originally posted by CreeWolf
John Kerry stands for one thing and one thing only, and he plays to one group of constituents only, and those are THOSE WHO HATE BUSH.

Which appears to be about 70% of the country, or the majority.

Also, I typed in caps because once again you people are still screaming about Kerry insulting the troops even though it is a known fact he was calling Bush an Idiot. The only way he could apologize to the troops he insulted is if Bush ever served, which he didn't. Kerry told the people minutes after the speech, released his original text that he botched, and for the past couple days has been going on about how he botched the joke yet no one who watches Fox News for news have heard or read this. All they hear is "Saddam has WMDs, Kerry attacked Bush, and Mark Foley and Dennis Hastert are democrats."

Originally posted by CreeWolf
John Kerry stands for one thing and one thing only, and he plays to one group of constituents only, and those are THOSE WHO HATE BUSH.

Which appears to be about 70% of the country, or the majority.

Also, I typed in caps because once again you people are still screaming about Kerry insulting the troops even though it is a known fact he was calling Bush an Idiot. The only way he could apologize to the troops he insulted is if Bush ever served, which he didn't. Kerry told the people minutes after the speech, released his original text that he botched, and for the past couple days has been going on about how he botched the joke yet no one who watches Fox News for news have heard or read this. All they hear is "Saddam has WMDs, Kerry attacked troops, and Mark Foley and Dennis Hastert are democrats."

Originally posted by oxygen_killsHe was, without a doubt, talking about the Bush administration not doing the appropriate research needed to conduct the occupation of Iraq. So if this is the "October Suprise", it is a pathetic one. I am suprised at the medias coverage of something so trivial in the context of other current events. That really gets on my nerves.

That's the crazy thing about this age of media snippets. Everyone is so quick to get their information, they don't care about the context. If they can find a few words in a sequence that sounds bad they run with it. And then you get this BS....It is pathetic that people keep falling for the same manueveurs over and over again.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by oxygen_killsHe was, without a doubt, talking about the Bush administration not doing the appropriate research needed to conduct the occupation of Iraq. So if this is the "October Suprise", it is a pathetic one. I am suprised at the medias coverage of something so trivial in the context of other current events. That really gets on my nerves.

That's the crazy thing about this age of media snippets. Everyone is so quick to get their information, they don't care about the context. If they can find a few words in a sequence that sounds bad they run with it. And then you get this BS....It is pathetic that people keep falling for the same manueveurs over and over again.

Not all of us Jamuhn, some of us study, research, and find the truth. ALso, did anyone see Tony Snow say he had no idea where a "us" would go into the joke? Like wow, didn't he go to college? How can he not figure out where the "us" goes when the original speech text was released.