Kerry is Rove's October Surprise!

Okay you have a President who bumbles his speaking constantly, putting "food on your family," and thousands of other gaffs. Now you have a generally more erudite John Kerry in the same club as Bush, the Skull and Bones, who took a dive in the election, and now makes an allegory about Iraq.

Now this is all starting to make sense.

Originally posted by jsobecky
The implication that going to Iraq is the only option for those who cannot excel academically.

He did imply that, but...

The implication that those who can excel academically do not choose to serve in Iraq.

He did not imply that.

The implication that academic success is somehow more important than success in life's other endeavors.

He did not imply that.

But most importantly, the implication that it is somehow shameful to serve in Iraq.

He might of implied that. But, he seems to realize that it is Bush admin's fault for going to Iraq and making bad policy decisions, not the troops'.

Kerry's response...

"I'm sick and tired of a bunch of despicable Republicans who will not debate real policy, who won't take responsibility for their own mistakes, standing up and trying to make other people the butt of those mistakes," he said. "It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did."

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Lol, aren't we all?! Considering Kerry's political record though, it might of been funnier if it came from someone who didn't also meet those qualities. The pot and all that...

Originally posted by jsobecky
The implication that those who can excel academically do not choose to serve in Iraq.

The implication that academic success is somehow more important than success in life's other endeavors.

But most importantly, the implication that it is somehow shameful to serve in Iraq.

1. The facts bare this out. What % of people graduating in the top 10% of their HS class enlist in the military ? And then what % of those people join the Army or MC infantry ?

2. Academic success early in life is more important to your future that anything else I can think of.

3. Not shameful. But not the smartest move. Anybody enlisting in the Army or MC knowing they are likely to be shipped off to Iraq needs their head examined IMO.

Think about it. Bush + Cheney both avoided service in Vietnam. Kissinger who is regularly advising Bush on Iraq said plainly that people in the military are dumb animals, cannon fodder if you will. Not the people I would trust.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by Schaden]

Originally posted by deessell
What he fails to mention is that if you can't afford to go to university in the first place then you become part of the 'poverty draft'.

Or you go into the business world, or get another job, or go for vocational training, etc.

Rasobasi420
is it not true that if you don't do well in school, one of your best options for a successful life is through the military?

Whats wrong with that then? Its a good thing that joining the military is a good job that pays decently and give good health coverage, etc.

I don't know why people are up in arms about it, especially when the army specifically targets underpriveleged neighborhoods that tend not to have been the best statistics in education because these people don't know what they are getting into. Kerry say something that was truthful and really should not be taken so seriously as the media is making it.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by Revelmonk]

Kerry being controlled by the political machine is not necessarily so farfetched. Maybe not mind controlled, maybe Rove has the goods on him and he was "encouraged", so to speak, to make a comment such as this in order to give more momentum to the GOP going into the election next week.

He turned on his buddies in the military during the Vietnam War, why not on his party during the elections?

Wouldn't surprise me, and it makes a good CT.

Originally posted by closettrekkie
I find this quite humorous in light of the fact that when Kerry was running for president he was constantly bringing up the fact that he served in the armed forces. Now in a round about kind of way, he's saying he's an idiot! LOL!

Which infact actually proves he's an idiot. And a two-faced one at that.

Kerry likes to flip and flop.

Originally posted by Jamuhn


No, he didn't. Kerry is saying that a lot of people who don't get a good education end up in Iraq.

And by implication, he is stating that those in the military are without good education and hence dumb. His word mincing has finally bit him in the ass.

He has lower test scores that GW Bush.....should he be in iraq?

This is why Kerry lost.....hes too snobbish.

Originally posted by omega1

Originally posted by closettrekkie
I find this quite humorous in light of the fact that when Kerry was running for president he was constantly bringing up the fact that he served in the armed forces. Now in a round about kind of way, he's saying he's an idiot! LOL!

Which infact actually proves he's an idiot. And a two-faced one at that.

Kerry likes to flip and flop.

Then you admit that the is right... you tell me how many high school graduates, eligible for Yale, Harvard etc. choose instead to go to Iraq. How many people would give up that comfy, high-paying job at home in order to join the military? There is a reason you see very few sons and daughters of politicians serving in the military. There is a reason they made such a big deal about Pat Tilman leaving the NFL and going to Afghanistan.... it's a rare thing for well-off Americans to sacrifice their lives of leisure by joining the military to "defend liberty" etc. There's a reason the military recruiters heavily target lower-income areas.

The fact is almost anyone growing up today is at an economic disadvantage if they don't get their college degree... that's not even debatable. Sure, you can learn a skill but by and large, your best bet is to go to college. The problem is, not everyone can afford it... and that is where the military comes in. They promise to pay for a college education because they know it's what everyone coming out of high school increasingly needs to compete in today's job-market.

It sounds to me like Kerry was figuratively speaking, I don't think the comment was meant to be seen as our military personnel are a bunch of idiots, I think what he intended to get across is if you don't focus on your education your going to end up in iraq. Meaning that you either do well in school or one of your better options for not doing so well will be to end up in Iraq. Which couldn't be any closer than the truth. How many of our ground forces have college degree's? How many are there so they can earn money to get a college degree? How many of them had the option to go away to college and turned it down to go to the military? How many of them are there because they were angry after September 11th?

And the ringer is.... Why the hell are they even there in the first place? A War built on lies by the GOP

And of all places this quote is taken from Fox News. C'Mon now, what else would you expect?

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by Jamuhn
No, he didn't. Kerry is saying that a lot of people who don't get a good education end up in Iraq.

And by implication, he is stating that those in the military are without good education and hence dumb.

He is stating that there ARE people in the military with a lack of good education. Would you deny that? He seems to be generalizing about people without a good education, not about people in the military.

He has lower test scores that GW Bush.....should he be in iraq?

I don't keep track of Kerry and Bush's test scores, but I don't think Kerry had in mind Yale when he was thinking about a lack of good education.

This is why Kerry lost.....hes too snobbish.

No, Kerry lost because he didn't know what he stood for. All Bush had to do was keep repeating his three golden words, "Terrorist" "9/11" & "Freedom" and he was home free. These races always come down to who has better marketing, it's not something that, as an American, one can be proud of no matter who wins.

Ok, I joined just to get this message across because everyone is misunderstanding his statement due to the fact that the media (I'm not blaming them I'm just saying that they're doing this in general) is showing the quote/clip out of context. Prior to this statement he was joking about Bush. THIS IS ANOTHER JOKE ABOUT BUSH....get it? If you aren't smart, you end up stuck in Iraq....as in Bush has America stuck in Iraq.

Ok hope that clears things up maybe. Don't take this statment literally...I had a problem understanding it too.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by zooeyglass14]

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

I don't know, but the first time I heard the statement, I thought he was saying that if you get bad grades, and drop out of school, you would probably be drafted and wind up in Iraq. That was my first impression, but I do see how some would take offence to it.

I also think that after watching all this play out on the news, it is getting blown way out of proportion. I mean even president Bush has made a comment about it that garnered another response from Kerry. It is as if we were voting for these guys all over again.

Originally posted by zooeyglass14
Ok, I joined just to get this message across because everyone is misunderstanding his statement due to the fact that the media (I'm not blaming them I'm just saying that they're doing this in general) is showing the quote/clip out of context. Prior to this statement he was joking about Bush. THIS IS ANOTHER JOKE ABOUT BUSH....get it? If you aren't smart, you end up stuck in Iraq....as in Bush has America stuck in Iraq.

Ok hope that clears things up maybe. Don't take this statment literally...I had a problem understanding it too.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by zooeyglass14]

You are correct. The problem for Kerry is that in today's sound-byte world, every misstatement is overanalyzed to death and he knows that. For that reason, I have absolutely no sympathy for him. Maybe next time he'll keep his mouth shut until he knows how to get his point across.

If you aren't smart, you end up stuck in Iraq....as in Bush has America stuck in Iraq.

But he didn't say, 'if you aren't smart', he said 'if you don't get a good education'. Which, obviously doesn't apply to Bush.

Without our brave men and women protecting this country, those precious colleges wouldn't exist, and he couldn't peddle his elitist snobbery in them. America is Free because of the Brave!

Yeah, I think the delivery of the joke was just terrible. Terrible set up....actually perfect set up since he allowed the republicans to pounce on it.

But then again is it really responsible of the President of the United States of America to attack him on the out of context sentence, further enforcing the misunderstanding of the joke. Cmon, SOMEBODY in the white house should have understood it as a joke and told Bush.... then again...

I understand that he butchered the delivery, but it was absolutely not meant as an attack on the soldiers. Syntax error. Period. You can call him an idiot for butchering the jokes, but not so much anymore for calling the troops dumb. He was doing jokes about Bush....I guess being abstract in such a reactionary world kills.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by zooeyglass14]

I guess being abstract in such a reactionary world kills.

Not necessarily, first rule is to apologize. He does just the opposite, holds a press conference and says, the last thing i'll do is apologize!

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEarWithout our brave men and women protecting this country, those precious colleges wouldn't exist, and he couldn't peddle his elitist snobbery in them. America is Free because of the Brave!

I'll say this, our colleges would still be around even if we hadn't started a war in Iraq. So, I don't see how your comment is relevant.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEarNot necessarily, first rule is to apologize. He does just the opposite, holds a press conference and says, the last thing i'll do is apologize!

If Kerry were to apologize, he would be admitting to the interpretation that Bush and his possie are trying to convey. It's obvious Bush & Co. are just trying to drum up the anti-Kerry sentiment for the November elections.

I agree, I don't know why he said that. Now everyone thinks he said "Troops are idiots" and then "I won't apologize for that statement." Its almost funny the situation he got himself in. But I see why he won't apologize for something he didn't actually mean to say. The conservatives are doing a number on him and he doesn't want to back down I guess. Too bad very few will ever realize that it was part of a joke, however poor it was put together.