Bush authorizes martial law

Damn Jsobecky ive been having fun in this thread winding people up, playing with there heads and you come and make things all sober again! doh

Ah, once again the ultra paranoid wing of the ATS familiy has uncovered another non-story.

Please...someone show me where Section 1076 of HR 5122 declares that the President has new powers to declare martial law.

Section 1076 of HR 5122 gives the President power to mobilize federal agents and armed forces to

``(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United
States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or
other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or
incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the
United States, the President determines that--
``(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent
that the constituted authorities of the State or possession
are incapable of maintaining public order; and
``(ii) such violence results in a condition described in
paragraph (2); or
``(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic
violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrec-
tion, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition
described in paragraph (2).

Federal agents and armed forces are mobilized all the time without the imposition of martial law i.e - huricanes, floods, wildfires, blizzards, tornados, riots, looting.

Furthermore, the presidents power to deploy armed forces can be employed only when certain "conditions exist."

``(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition
that-- ``(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or
possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that
State or possession, that any part or class of its people is
deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named
in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted
authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse
to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that
protection; or
(B) Opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the
United States or impedes the course of justice under those
laws.

Theses are the things the armed forces will be used for:

``(a) PROVISION AUTHORIZED.--In any situation in which the
President determines to exercise the authority in section
333(a)(1)(A) of this title, the President may direct the Secretary
of Defense to provide supplies, services, and equipment to persons
affected by the situation.
``(b) COVERED SUPPLIES, SERVICES, AND EQUIPMENT.--The sup-
plies, services, and equipment provided under this section may
include food, water, utilities, bedding, transportation, tentage,
search and rescue, medical care, minor repairs, the removal of
debris, and other assistance necessary for the immediate preserva-
tion of life and property.

Can this or any law be abused?
Yes.

Will this law be abused?
IMO no. The soldiers who would be have the responsibility to impose any draconian, inhumane, or unlawful orders are our brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters.

I have faith they cannot be manipulated or induced in any way or to discard their duty to defend their country and fellow citizens.

Just my opinion.




[edit on 10/30/2006 by darkbluesky]

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
I think martial Law would be fantastic, it should be rolled out now, crime rates would bottom to an all time low, people in rough areas can walk the streets chat with the soldiers with no fear of being mugged!!

Hmm yeah, Martial Law rocks!!


Unless your a crim!

Crime gone? .. maybe.. if enough people are taken away..

Remember the pictures of Iraq? ...... It will be in your neighborhood.

There will be a resistance, I know it for a fact.. I will never release my freedoms to the government even through pain of death.. They will be a resistance like no other, in a land where we worship guns and violence.

For that, he/she gets a WATS from me.

And he gets from me a problem-reaction-solution answer.
Problem: Bush can't order troops after Katrina fast enough.
Reaction: Do something so you can act fast!
Solution: Putting the National Guards under Bush's control.

Hold all the paranoid horses here...

Although this act seems, on the surface to be a grab for power, it is also a response to Katrina.
And as to how it was passed... you all dont really believe that your
representitives actually read the bills they sign, do you?

They vote because another member called them up, and said... "yeah, we support this one..." and probably the other guy didn't read the whole thing either...

It is the art of rolling the "extras" into the bill...

abuse of the system- yes and not the first time...
nefarious- probably not...

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

And as to how it was passed... you all dont really believe that your
representitives actually read the bills they sign, do you?

They vote because another member called them up, and said... "yeah, we support this one..." and probably the other guy didn't read the whole thing either...

LTL, All US reps. and senators have staff that read all draft legislation and provide the pol with executive summaries prior to voting. Any rep who votes w/o at least reading the exec sum should be voted out.

But the DJ's on the radio alarm that woke me up were laughing and joking as usual... wouldn't they have been alarmed? ..........Jsobecky


That is a bad analogy there. Very bad.

I do hope all of you have plenty of ammunition, heavy firepower, and food...Stock up while you still can that's for sure.

When the tanks come rolling down the street, you're damn right I'll be outside with AK47s, grenade launchers, and whatever else I can get my hands on. Protect yourself from your government as this is the only country we've got.
STAND UP AND FIGHT!

IMO - martial law will be used to enforce quarantine when the looming pandemic finally hits, maybe this winter.

A recent Harvard study showed that while Americans would want to comply with quarantine rules, many would not because they can't afford to lose their incomes and jobs, and there aren't any back-up plans to provide basic services to those quarantined (like food).



Americans say they'd hole up to contain an outbreak, but may not mean it

Many Americans Would Not Stay At Home During Flu Pandemic

Survey: In flu pandemic, staying home raises paycheck, care questions

Survey Reveals that in the Case of a Pandemic Flu Outbreak, Majority of Americans Willing to Make Major Changes in their Lives

Would Americans Panic In A Flu Pandemic?



Emergency measures legislation has always allowed for military support in times of crisis. Yet these powers were increased under the Patriot Act, as well as the new Quarantine Act - and more.

So why is Presidential power to use the military on American soil being strengthened, yet again?



.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

Originally posted by Vitchilo

"The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy America's freedom and before I leave this office, I must inform the citizens of their plight."

* Statement purportedly made at Columbia University, November 12, 1963

This is what he said... but Wikipedia say it's bunk...

NO .... that is what it is claimed he said .

citing the JFK library as the definiteve source on the Kennedy presidency , I discover this :

But the simple fact is that President John F. Kennedy did not speak at Columbia University in November of 1963.

and futher :

Those who believe in the "fact" of President Kennedy having made such a speech, either at Columbia or some other place, will simply deny this denial. At best, they will say that because "all or most records" have been destroyed, we simply don't know the truth; at worst, they will claim that there is a conspiracy to keep this issue silent. If someone chooses to believe in the existence of this speech, he or she does so as a matter of faith, which is fine, as long as that person realizes that it is religion and not history in which he or she is dealing.

denying the denial , not ignorance now are we ????


What about this speech?:

www.youtube.com...


This was posted elsewhere here at ATS in it's own thread I believe.

Listen carefully to what he says.

Darkbluesky

Furthermore, the presidents power to deploy armed forces can be employed only when certain "conditions exist."

Well.. I wonder how many of this "certain conditions" are going to be "created"?

What makes you think that the constitution or bill of rights will mean anything when martial law is imposed?


I can't believe how people just don't get it, it's obvious your NOT going to get it until you are a slave.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars

I can't believe how people just don't get it, it's obvious your NOT going to get it until you are a slave.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

What's obvious is that a new law isn't needed to enact the kind of action you are afraid of. The president already has the constitutional authority to declare martial law.

I'll be no ones slave.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Please, people, keep vigilant, but don't print mis-leading titles.

How about please mods and admins let's get back to the old ATS where misleading titles were corrected, or threads trashed right away when they are clearly trolling?

Here is just one more thread, with a bogus title that ends up on the top of the home page, that points ATS towards a laughing stock rather than towards a credible site built of quality. Mod enforcement here should not be limited to member personal attacks, and minor post corrections. Get some damn balls people and rid this site of posts like this or correct their titles! I find it hard to believe that the administration here would favor web site hit points over integrity, but more and more it seems that is the case. Boo.

Sofi, you ask a damn good question, and in the scheme of things, I believe that it was the debacle over Katrina that led to this legislation. That's about it, imo. I laughed my ass off at jso's post, and I strongly recommend everyone here read it again.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by TrueAmerican]

Originally posted by dgtempe
But the DJ's on the radio alarm that woke me up were laughing and joking as usual... wouldn't they have been alarmed? ..........Jsobecky


That is a bad analogy there. Very bad.

Why, dg? What's so very bad about it?

Did you like the Chicken Little one any better?

Oh..now I get it ...alarm, alarmed.

Sometimes I'm so funny I just can't stand it!

DarkBlueSky

I'll be no ones slave.

Tell that to everyone else, including yourself, when the shoe drops.


It's interesting when you said "-can- this or any law be abused" and you said yes.

First off,, it's not a matter of -can- this law be abused, it's a matter of WHEN it's going to be abused and this is not just ANY law.

People, just read HR 5122 for yourself. I for one am not going to trust that ANY US representative or senator has read the bill much less an "executive summary". I mean, how would anyone know for sure what they have read?



Back to Kennedy's speech:

www.youtube.com...

In particular:

"And there is a grave danger that an anounced need for increased security will be seazed upon by "those" anxious to expand it's meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I DO NOT INTEND to permit to the extent that it's in my control. "

Hmm.. now how and why was Kennedy killed again?

Writing is on the wall folks, up to you if you want to hearken to it or not.





[edit on 30-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

How many of you remember threads like this about a year ago and we all agreed that thinsg were starting to heat up but had yet to go the whole nine yards. We are back to that point again, these laws are just another step to what we already knew. However, one thing that has yet to be done by most of you and is still done jokingly is the following:
1: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN THE HAMMER FALLS?
2: WHERE WILL YOU GO?
3: WHAT will you take with YOU?
4: What will you do if they knock on your door?
5: Who is your friend and who is your enemy?
6: Who can you trust?
7: Who is a spy?
8: Where are you food, medical, and weapon catches? Are they safe? Are they in reaching distance? Are they hidden?
9: If caught what will you do?
10: When the shooting starts what will you do?

One thing they already know is that YES people will fight back with whatever weapons we have, and should they send the military it will get REALLY bad REAL fast. So they will employ the cheaper units: Police. Police will round up your guns so the regular can waltz in the front door and walk down mainstreet and sieze town hall. So if anyone dies at the start of all this it will be the police not the regular army. Also if you notice: Who HAS NOT been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan? The Regular Army, the bulk of their forces. It will take very little effort to pull back the whole of their forces in outher countries who are no threat to them, at the same time if they get more foreigners into the army through the new loopholes they will have little to no trouble sustaining their numbers.
Keeping short term rations is highly important, keep a couple cans of SPAM, tuna, corned beef, and if you can get them, MRE's, freeze dried foods, dehydrated foods, raw grains. Owning a bunch of ammo will cause the following (also guns): 100% they will try and sieze it all or take you out depending on what you have. Hiding wont help you, if they want you they will search for you, your only hope is to keep a clean trail and dont make yourself (face) well known. Dont use credit cards anymore, cut them all up, no more checks either. Pay in cold hard cash or not at all.

These people are IN NO SHAPE OR FORM COMMUNISTS! THEY ARE FASCISTS! If you want to know what a REAL communist is read Carl Marx's COMMUNIST MANIFESTO. I did, Stalin, the USSR, China, and all the others who claimed to be communist nations NEVER WERE. That was a giant lie to keep people under their control, communism is for the people, to keep them safe from oppression of corporations mainly. I also know some people who are communist and they want the same rights as anyone else: freedom of speech, press, etc. They also want people to be able to work without being controlled by corporations who will leech them to death. I will say it again: THESE PEOPLE ARE IN NO SHAPE OR FORM COMMUNISTS! THEY ARE FASCISTS! CHINA AND RUSSIA AS WELL AS N. KOREA AND VIETNAM WERE NEVER COMMUNIST IT WAS JUST A FRONT OF TOTAL DICTATORSHIP AND FASCISM!

The begining of the end has begun. The first move is theirs, the last is ours.

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars

DarkBlueSky

I'll be no ones slave.

Tell that to everyone else, including yourself, when the shoe drops.

Just curious. Whats your plan to avoid enslavementwhen the shoe drops?

Talking about speeches allegedly given 43 years ago?
Fearmongering on web sites?

Or is it just enough to be "enlightened enough' to understand what your future holds?

It's interesting when you said "-can- this or any law be abused" and you said yes.

Interesting? Maybe. But also honest and truthful.

People, just read HR 5122 for yourself.

YES.... PLEASE. By all means!



[edit on 30-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

I was researching this bill a couple days ago when the matter of martial law was brought to my attention in another thread.

Thousands of Troops Barred from Overseas Duty Because of High Personal Debt

The rider, Sec. 1076 was an add on which makes it very possible that some reps didn't know it was in there.

Most of the rest of this bill Supports The Troops, and no one wants to be seen as NOT supporting the troops with this election coming up. Troops, yes. War, no.

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich voted against it. I would surmise that they did see Sec 1076 in the final version.

Actually there were 23 nays in the House:

CA-6 Woolsey, Lynn [D]
CA-7 Miller, George [D]
CA-9 Lee, Barbara [D]
CA-13 Stark, Fortney [D]
CA-23 Capps, Lois [D]
CA-51 Filner, Bob [D]
GA-4 McKinney, Cynthia [D]
IL-2 Jackson, Jesse [D]
IL-9 Schakowsky, Janice [D]
ME-2 Michaud, Michael [D]
MA-4 Frank, Barney [D]
MI-14 Conyers, John [D]
NJ-6 Pallone, Frank [D]
NJ-10 Payne, Donald [D]
NJ-12 Holt, Rush [D]
NY-11 Owens, Major [D]
NY-12 Velazquez, Nydia [D]
NY-16 Serrano, José [D]
OH-10 Kucinich, Dennis [D]
TX-14 Paul, Ronald [R]
WA-1 Inslee, Jay [D]
WA-7 McDermott, James [D]
WI-2 Baldwin, Tammy [D]

source

Just a suggestion to all those that "would fight to the death" against such an action.
rethink that option... as it is just that...
fight, till you die... soon afterward...

and also think... where were you, when the national guard was called into Katrina? Where were you when the Mercs were shooting looters?

Where were you? sitting at home in front of the TV watching the world change...
watching fellow citizens, being shot from the air, because they were too close to a secret military bioweapons facility, or looked like they might loot the grocery store...

Violence breeds violence...
the only option for change of leadership, is a peaceful revolution at the polls...
no soldier of this country would shoot someone for wanting to guarantee fair elections, or for wanting to protest an unehical or illegal government action...

the shooting in such an incident would have to start from the mob.

The lesson here, is that if "violence" is seen on the streets, it will cuase Martial law...

Ghandi tells us all we need to know here... the only path to change.

darkbluesky

Just curious. Whats your plan to avoid enslavementwhen the shoe drops?

Don't feel the need to answer that one but I will say that I have made certain preparations to the best of my ability and knowledge. (This would be a good topic for another thread)



I think however, that it would be FAR better to not support any 'system' that is going to lead to our enslavement BEFORE it happens.

I said:

"It's interesting when you said "-can- this or any law be abuse" and you said yes.

Your reply:

Interesting? Maybe. But also honest and truthful.

Ahh.. what you say and what you imply are two different things apparently:

Remember this?

darkbluesky

Ah, once again the ultra paranoid wing of the ATS familiy has uncovered another non-story.

Let's see.. You IMPLY a law like THIS can be abused yet out the other side of your mouth you tell some of us here on ATS that we are part of some "paranoid wing" and that this is a NON-ISSUE.


Your words betray you far worse that I ever could.