15 y/o given Life Sentence

"It's a tragic and sad thing to see how people's hearts have hardened."-Astygia

Indeed it is.Some of the sentences we see for murder in the UK makes me worry about how Human life seems to be getting cheaper and cheaper.Just because there are more Humans about does not justify a reduction of the value of a single soul in my opinion.
The UK prison system needs attention.

See if our society did not have homosexuals openly corrupting our youth with their blasphemous behavior and lifestyle on TV and other such media, this kid may not have had this problem. Now honestly, I do not believe this kid should be given the death penalty, and I am really getting tired of societies having to foot the bill for the rest of someones life.

Stick a tracking device in him, and banish him temporarily into a jungle or something to figure out how to survive, and let him feel what life is like outside of society, where animals who behave in the manner he has have battle for their lives in a daily basis.

This may help him gain an appreciation for modern life, and the rules required to be follwoed to live in harmony in such a society.

How sad.

The mother must have been in denial, probably worked to support him, and this is what happens.
I disagree that he should get the death penalty- Circumstances tend to show here that he was a victim himself of a rough upbringing, and what could be worse than blackmail because of homosexual advances? For a kid?

I think he should be punished for many years and also get lots of rehab and not have to due life in prison. He should be allowed back little by little with lots of help and support, after say, 10 years of much rehabilitation.

Of course, this wont bring back the dead boy. Its a sad situation all around.

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
My heart goes out to both families. Both lost a son.

Unfortunately, one family has lost a son for life, the other, probably around 12-15 years.

Hamer was told that he would serve a minimum of 12 years before being eligible for parole.

Source.

Originally posted by Implosion
probably around 12-15 years.

See this is what I was talking about, shouldn't life be for life whether it be for 2 years or 200 years?

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by Implosion
probably around 12-15 years.

See this is what I was talking about, shouldn't life be for life whether it be for 2 years or 200 years?

Yeah, IMO life should mean life. However, I'm not in favour of the death penalty, mistakes will always be made. You can always release someone you incarcerated by mistake, you can't bring them back to life.

Hamer had an adjustment disorder, a psychological disturbance that arises in response to stress. He had a lot of it; being bullied, losing a brother, not seeing much of his father, being a social outcast, and to cap it all off, not even being sure of his sexuality at an age where that is pretty much all that matters. The warning signs were all there.

It is very sad. Only the other day, I watched a huge monster pick up his son and throw him into a chair with such violence and force, I could not believe it. He then hurled abuse at the boy. Life starts the moment we are born and people seem to forget that if you treat a person with cruelty you begin to set the seed of pattern of behaviour. I know a young man who lived across the road from me when I was growing up. He used to be beaten/flogged by his step-father. We used to (the kids in the area) used to sit and count how many he would get, we would laugh at first and then after 20 we would be silent whilst it went on and on. Now, this young man is in Jail, offence GBH. Who is to blame here? The moment I heard of his fate, I felt very sad for him. The last time I saw him he was just starting High School and guess what, people were picking on him there too, he looked so lost and I felt so sad for him.

So what, without knowing this boy's past/history we can throw out an opinion? Can we do that? Do we know everything there is to know? However vile the crime, however incomprehensible the act is, some children are damaged beyond repair. You really wouldnt want to see inside a home for abused children, there are children who sit in a corner and rock backwards and forewards, and when you approach, they scream. It takes months, sometimes years for a child to develop trust with the carer. Some never recover from their ordeals.

I am not so quick to say 'hang him!', I actually feel sorry for all involved.

I figure he's young enough where rehab might work. Or at least it'd have a better chance then a full adult. But if that doesn't work then I say off with his head. I'm only a little older than this kid and I've got to say that if I ever did anything like that I'd probably want to take my own life if the courts didn't. But hey, that's just me.

Originally posted by DYepes
See if our society did not have homosexuals openly corrupting our youth with their blasphemous behavior and lifestyle on TV and other such media, this kid may not have had this problem. Now honestly, I do not believe this kid should be given the death penalty, and I am really getting tired of societies having to foot the bill for the rest of someones life.

Stick a tracking device in him, and banish him temporarily into a jungle or something to figure out how to survive, and let him feel what life is like outside of society, where animals who behave in the manner he has have battle for their lives in a daily basis.

This may help him gain an appreciation for modern life, and the rules required to be follwoed to live in harmony in such a society.

So in your example the 15 year old murder is a victim of the "homosexuals openly corrupting our youth" and your solution is to re-victimize him by making him live in a jungle and figure out how to survive. Shouldn't you want to de-program him, and while you're at it do you want to round up all the "blasphemous" people and have them locked up instead??

He got a fair treatment for his crime. We are all subject to the same "corruption" from media and it hasn't been common for us to sexually victimize people and kill them. In fact I can honestly say I have never even been tempted!

The fact is as has been stated by a lot of people is the premeditation of this crime,to me it is beyond belief.
I have always thought to myself,there is a new breed of monster walking the streets monster is to good a word sad to say.this type of crime is on the up@up over here,pretty much like the school killings stateside,where is it all coming from?
As for the punishment to fit the crime inthe u.k.laughable to say the least,
For people in the u.k. who are interested I am currently reading a book,titled A LAND FIT FOR CRIMINALS byDavid Fraser. maybe there is such a thing as mind control that is my thought and has nothing to do with book,excellent posts by the way.

Originally posted by NJE777

I know a young man who lived across the road from me when I was growing up. He used to be beaten/flogged by his step-father. We used to (the kids in the area) used to sit and count how many he would get, we would laugh at first and then after 20 we would be silent whilst it went on and on. Now, this young man is in Jail, offence GBH.

NJE777... What is GBH?

I don't know if I agree with the notion that this was a pre-meditated murder. A more logical motive was put forth by the judge, imo:

Imposing a minimum tariff of 12 years, the judge said doctors had found that Hamer was suffering from an "adjustment disorder" at the time of the murder.

He also said the killing itself was not thought of in advance but triggered by Joe's rejection of the defendant's sexual advance.

Of course, that doesn't make the crime any less heinous, or the loss of Joe easier to take. But it would affect sentencing here in the states.

Whereas on the news it was reported that his desires were repelled by the victim, one of the investigating officers did straongly indicate that the investigating team believed there was more to it than just that he said "no" to his killer.

The police were not happy with the sentence, and for what this yound man did, I would have to agree that the sentence is not harsh enough.

Originally posted by jsobecky

He also said the killing itself was not thought of in advance but triggered by Joe's rejection of the defendant's sexual advance.

Of course, that doesn't make the crime any less heinous, or the loss of Joe easier to take. But it would affect sentencing here in the states.

No, it's still premeditated murder. Something happenend and he decided to kill him. That's premeditation. You don't have to plan for weeks, days, or even hours to be 1st degree murder. It can happen in a matter of seconds.

[edit on 10/17/2006 by djohnsto77]

Well, you may be right. I think of premeditation as something that happens external to the event, as opposed to something that happens in line with the event. But then, I'm no lawyer.

See if our society did not have homosexuals openly corrupting our youth with their blasphemous behavior and lifestyle on TV and other such media, this kid may not have had this problem. Now honestly, I do not believe this kid should be given the death penalty, and I am really getting tired of societies having to foot the bill for the rest of someones life.

This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen in my life on ATS. So the cause of this 15 year old carrying out this murder, is Homosexuals faulteh? Get your hed out of your backside, just shows the ignorance you have yourself. How dare you accuse Homosexuals of being the reason why he did this. Did it ever occur to you maybe his parents have anything to do with this?

Obviously not, you sir need to withdraw your comment, and grow up and comeinto reality.

They will probably hire him in the British Secret Service because he is a killin machine.

Originally posted by DYepes
See if our society did not have homosexuals openly corrupting our youth with their blasphemous behavior and lifestyle on TV and other such media, this kid may not have had this problem.

Well... I wouldn't say that. But there should be a full psych evaluation to see just when this kid got so screwed up and if it's something intensive therapy could correct. He could have been molested ealier in life or suffered some other form of major trauma involving a homosexual act. Every homosexual man I've associated with on a regular basis has had psychological issues... primarily rage. Inability to control anger often resulting in violence. Just like we see here.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Well, you may be right. I think of premeditation as something that happens external to the event, as opposed to something that happens in line with the event. But then, I'm no lawyer.

I don't know about UK law, but in the U.S., you definitely don't need to plan something for a long time for premeditated (1st degree) murder. As long as you decide at one point "I'm going to kill him because of x" that's it. 2nd degree murder is when you accidently kill someone in a fight, such as in a bar brawl or something where you never really intended to kill anyone but you did, and 3rd degree manslaughter is when you're just criminaly negligent and accidently run someone over with a car or accidently shoot someone with a gun you're just showing to them, etc.

where is the compassion?

I can understand why people kill other people. generally, it is because they are in pain. or because they think nothing of other people (and that, also, has to do with pain).

it is obvious this boy was in pain.

why say 'let's hang him'? if you do that you fail to see, or choose not to see why he did it and that the problem most likely has to do with much more than 'evil'. what is evil anyway? I think it is a lable people use to distance themselves from things they do not want anything to understand.

I think this has a lot more to do with society and the upbringing of young people of today and the lack of meaning they seem to have in their lives, than with some kind of 'evil'....

there is always a reason to why people act the way they do. always.

Sky wise,
I hear what you`re saying and your right-the upbringing will have had a large effect.
But,i find it hard to be compassionate to someone who has committed an act as serious as murder.
Would you feel comfortable in a room with a "reformed" killer?Not sure i would.