15 y/o given Life Sentence

UK teenager Michael Hamer has been given a life sentence in prison for beating with a frying pan then stabbing to death 11 year old Joseph Geeling.



Look, I'm sorry, but after pouring my heart out on this issue twice and losing every bit of it both times, I'm not game to try again.

Should there be or is there in place now some sort of system that is there to help people like Hamer before situations like this arise? The victim, an 11 year old cystic fibrosis sufferer, threatened to tell everyone about the sexual advance Hamer made on him, which is purportedly what triggered off the assault and murder. To feel the need to murder someone over something like this is a stage that should not be reached.

Hamer had an adjustment disorder, a psychological disturbance that arises in response to stress. He had a lot of it; being bullied, losing a brother, not seeing much of his father, being a social outcast, and to cap it all off, not even being sure of his sexuality at an age where that is pretty much all that matters. The warning signs were all there.

What could the mother have done? Not making judgements, but she doesn't sound like the sharpest tool in the shed after being told by her son that the red stuff he was cleaning off the floor was 'red pen ink,' after a person just got stabbed 16 times there.

Should developmental (for want of better word) things such as this be left to the family only? Could this horrible horrible event have been prevented psychologically-wise?

Of course, I recognize how wonderful hindsight is, but it just makes me so sad to think that events like this involving children, of all people, are happening everywhere. This is just one of the cases that made it to trial.

My heart goes out to both families. Both lost a son.

Neither needed to.

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Wow I've never heard of this crime before. Well I have to agree with this sentence. This was obviously a premeditated act and the sexual element confirms it was an adult act not a juvenile mistake.

This was obviously a premeditated act and the sexual element confirms it was an adult act not a juvenile mistake.

Agress with you 100%,

Lets hope Life means life and this guy does not get out of Jail halfway through his sentence.

I just feel sorry for the Parents of joe, what they must have went through.

R.I.P. Joe, your somewhere better than in this hell of a place.

Yep, this is definitely a premeditated act on a vulnerable person.

In my mind, this translates to 'hang the bastard high'.

The age has NOTHING to do with this horrific crime- the fact of the matter is that this was a brutal, premeditated assault on someone who was not only a child, but a vulnerable one.

DE

In my mind, this translates to 'hang the bastard high'.

While I agree with what you have posted, there is only one problem. The UK does not have the death penalty, that was done away with years ago. But yes in certain cases like this where it is proven, it was premeditated, then he should face the death penalty. And Im not one for the D/P, I have always been against it. How cases like this changes ones mind eh.

I'm in the commonwealth, so we got rid of the noose in '64 too. And, trust me...I'm all for bringing it back. Cases like this only harden my resolve on the issue. I mean, if a kid is willing to kill a child, one with fibrosis, is he going to think twice about murdering someone else?

DE

I would have preferred the death penalty too, but we don't have it here in the U.S. either for someone who commits a crime at that age due to a Supreme Court ruling a few years back.

Just horrible.
I`m in full agreement with those who say this was premeditated.
Every time i hear about something like this,it takes a chunk out my faith in humanity.
The UK sucks at is prison laws...You can get years for dole fraud or non payment of car fines,yet evil murderers get let out after 4 years,and sometimes kill again.
On Radio 5, 2 nights ago there was a guy talking about the rape laws...Apparently 17 out of every 18 rape cases,the defendent gets off scott free.
We need to change our legal system,IMHO,to rebalance in favour of the victims of such horrid crimes.
However,i agree that its a tradgedy that the killer wasn`t spotted as violent earlier in his life.For i am willing to bet that he was violent before this devastating crime.
My thoughts are with his family.

The park where this boy was found is at the rear of my house and the place where his body was found is clearly visible from my rear bedroom window. Having 2 very young children myself i was disgusted at this crime and i can tell you so was the whole community. Strangely enough im originally from Liverpool and was brought up in the area of the Jamie Bulger murder (Bootle) and can remember the riots and outrqage when the hunt was on for his killers. Shame that those 2 killers are now living free lives with police protection. I hope this doesnt happen here

The saint,
It envoked memories of the Bulger case for me also.
It seems so messed up that people are released after comitting a crime as horrific as this.
Only in Britain are people let out after a short spell for murder.I am all for a smaller prison population,but for all our sakes let keep the really evil ones locked up.
Common sense man.

This is one reason Americans love the death penalty. We don't trust the government to keep evil people locked up forever even if they get life sentences.

In the UK, is a life sentance a full life sentence, or is it something like 25-40 years? I would disagree with the sentance of life without parole. A fifteen year old kid at odds with his sexuality is most likely not in his right mind, and would likely have issues that could be dealt with in time. Give him a stiff sentance, but be sure he has a chance to grow, and reform. After all, isn't prison about reform?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
In the UK, is a life sentance a full life sentence, or is it something like 25-40 years? After all, isn't prison about reform?

I have heard of people getting 9 years for murder,but here in the UK any time spent in custody before trial counts as follows:
50 days in custody/on remand before trail = 100 days removed from final sentence.

So 4 months becomes 8 months etc.

Add to that the fact that a 9 year sentence in good ol blighty really means a 4 and a half year sentence (i know,very silly.but True.)

So a 9 year sentence dished out by the judge in court is massaged down to a cozy 3 or four years,complete with TV in cell,for people who actually take anothers life.

Only in Blighty.


Djjohnsto77:

We don't trust the government to keep evil people locked up forever even if they get life sentences.

Is that the reason Djjohn?Is it the people who insist upon the death penalty in America?
Thats intersting to me,i always thought it was the Governments Idea.
I can sort of see the point,although i do not actually support the death penalty.
I would rather see substantially longer sentences with no parole.
Death is for God not the state i rek.

Yes, the death penalty is pretty popular here. States where it isn't so popular with more liberal populations generally don't have it.

The federal government does have it, but most crimes like this would be tried by the State, not the U.S.

[edit on 10/16/2006 by djohnsto77]

FWIW, I hope at least that a 15 year old will get serious treatment to at least attempt to reform him. I would beleive that a 15 year old can be reformed before I'd beleive an adult could.

I think that reform and rehabilitation work, maybe, one time in a hundred. Usually, people who commit capital crimes are the ones who are incurable. You can complain mitigating circumstances all you want, it still doesn't justify murder.

Get the rope.

DE

I would love to see a prison system which actually reforms offenders.This would be a significant step forward in the UK.
Its 2006 for goodness sake,the present system sucks!More education for young offenders i say.
Britian locks up more people than any other country in europe apparently.
And lets murderers and rapists out after 3 or 4 years in some cases...
Foolish if you ask me.

FWIW, I hope at least that a 15 year old will get serious treatment to at least attempt to reform him. I would beleive that a 15 year old can be reformed before I'd beleive an adult could.

You cant rehabilitate a boy like that. Oh sure rehabilitate hima nd let him back out into society to kill some kid again.

Once a Killer always a killer. He should never have the chance to reform, he should rot in hell. Just shows us all how evil people can be in the UK. The Gov reforms the Judicial System that much, its a no wonder killers like this are let out years earlier, than sservin their full life sentence. A life sentence should remain a life sentence, for life not 7 or 8 years, Until he dies in Jail. Which I hope he does.

Prison is about repaying your criminal debt to society. Selling drugs, stealing a car, stuff like that are mistakes, not honest mistakes, but also not violent. A few years will make one remember, is this worth trying again?

But how does one repay a life?

Yeah, this kid was young and immature. Weren't we all immature at that age? Being hormonal is no excuse for premeditated murder.

It's a tragic and sad thing to see how people's hearts have hardened.

Myself I would go for the D/P and "the eye for an eye" attitude, as for rapists then just stick them in a room full of mothers for a couple of hours.

I'm sorry but stealing a car is a "mistake" as mentioned earlier, I suppose it was my honest mistake for buying a car in the first place and putting temptation there for the idle layabout drug taking waste of space that would have stolen it.

Yes I know I have just put lables on a fair few innocent people, but face it, if you go to work for 8 hours or more a day then you are unlikely to go stealing after finishing work.

The trouble with the UK is that we pander to the criminals and leave the innocent victims of crime to help themselves, at the last count there was still just one agency that looked after victims of crime and over 40 that looked after the criminals, I love my country with passion and at the same time hate it just as equally.