655,000 Iraqis killed since start of war

bodrul- America has been standing up to evil in the world for years. Sometimes that means killing to protect us and our allies. If we didn't do this, well, your post here would be in German.

I don't believe the 650,000 number, but I don't believe the 50,000 number either.

The problem with the 650,000 number is it means 1 of every 13 dead bodies disappears into thin air. Sorry, but you can't hide that many bodies, not in a country like Iraq. It would be all over Al Jazeera as propaganda if that many bodies were lieing around 'somewhere.'

Also, if it is indeed 650,000, that would mean 630,000 people have died to people other than the US. If that really is true, it represents the largest sectarian violence in the world, making Darfur look like a peace picnic.

The problem with the 50,000 number is that nearly half that number has died since hte mosque blew up, and since that isn't right, the number is more likely closer to 100,000.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
And they don't count how many die before the war because of the embargo on medical supplies that killed at least 200.000 people, the majority among children who need a lot of medical attention in their early days.

Actually over 500,000 children died in Iraq under the age of 5 before the war, and it wasn't because of "medical embargoes"....the embargoes were on military equipments...not on medical supplies.... So please try to inform people instead of misinform them...

Saddam was making illegal deals, perhaps you have heard of the OFF scandal, when he should have been using that money for medicines and food, but i guess since countries like France, Germany, Russia, China and a few others were making tons of money through the OFF program with money which was meant for the people in Iraq, it is the fault of the U.S.....

Oh and btw....the article does say

Their conclusion, based on interviews of households and not a body count,

This information is boviously being used as a political tool. I agree with Cordesman's statement in the article.



[edit on 11-10-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by TONE23
I am really at a loss here. 600,000 Iraqis are dead... and we are helping this country again how?

The death of 600,000 iraqis is well worth preventing another 911. US foreign policy exists to help the US, not other countries.

So, to prevent another 9/11 you kill 600.000 people in a country that had nothing to do with it in a first place. Interesting logic.

Emergency! Emergency!
Paging doctor Insano!

Originally posted by Nygdan

The death of 600,000 iraqis is well worth preventing another 911. US foreign policy exists to help the US, not other countries.

would you like a bucket of chicken and a six pack with your genocide ?

Your kidding arent you?

You'd be prepared to have 600,000 foreign citizens die.... because your government couldnt figure out those 12 KNOWN arabs training in flightschools were up to no good?
At the same time being warned about it ?

12 arab hijackers
plot to fly planes into buildings

12 arab hijackers
plot to fly planes into buildings

got it..

Dem damn Irakeee's... how dare they stock wmd's, we need to destroy them!




Atleast Georgie boy isnt the only one following this train of thought!

Nygdan the reason America used Atomic weapons was not to bring the war to a close it was to see if the technology worked and to send a warning to Stalin.

You contradict yourself, on the one hand you say they were used to end the war thus end the killing and applaud the fact 650k Iraqis have been killed and your proud of it. Even if you are being honest about your statement on the Iraqi figures such an attitude provides the enemy with justifiable reason to hit back so in all not a very intelligent response was it.

How on earth did you guys elect such a neandathal ??

Collataral damage is the america way or is that bush way

Oh to all thos ewho are debating figures, trying to convince themselves they cannot be right, weel I would rather believe someone who has at least been to the country to try and establish just how many have died.

Perhaps the deniers should make some real effort to do the same and finally accept the carnage that we have started in that country. Another glorious chapter in the history of mankind.

Nygdan your quite right American foreign policy is about protecting America and its interests but if your as smart as you think you are then you will know that nobody has attacked America, all these events inside the USA have been commited by Americans and you know it.

These events have been used as a means to wage war for material gain, even the scam of America being concerned re nuke proliferation is waring thin. Many countries have nukes but America has not attacked one of them so that story is crap. It will be interesting to see how Bush and Co are going to deal with NK because many have said Kim is a madman and we all know what madmen are capable of.

No at times like these you should be honest, Honest enough to say what your real intentions are rather than using lies, deceit and murder to gain your objectives.
And nobody should be proud of the death of so many violence begets violence as you will soon find out.

When the individuals in charge of THE US make profits of war, there is no way plausable to label that war as just.

I hope every single member of this administration is tried convicted and executed for the thousands upon thousnds of people murdered in the name of GW Bush.

The only way left for the world to start forgiving america, is if americans try and execute the man responsible for these war crimes.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by TONE23
I am really at a loss here. 600,000 Iraqis are dead... and we are helping this country again how?

The death of 600,000 iraqis is well worth preventing another 911. US foreign policy exists to help the US, not other countries.

You see, that's the problem. US foreign policy seems to be to kill as many foreigners as it takes to keep us safe from any threats, real or imagined. The Iraqi civilians killed during the invasion and occupation were never any threat to us, the Iraqi military were never any threat to us, and there was no terrorist activity in Iraq prior to 2003. So the 5.7 billion 'foreigners' on the wrong side of our foreign policy, may be justifiably concerned by our actions and have reason to do a little foreign policy work of their own.

All in all, it's not a very smart policy, superpower or not.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
These events have been used as a means to wage war for material gain, even the scam of America being concerned re nuke proliferation is waring thin. Many countries have nukes but America has not attacked one of them so that story is crap.

You know, Bush finally let the real reason slip yesterday. It was either in his speech or answering reporters questions afterwards, he said "We are in Iraq to prevent radical Islamists from gaining control of the oil". I need to go look for a transcript to make an exact quote but that was the message.

[edit on 10/12/2006 by mythatsabigprobe]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

Originally posted by magicmushroom

You know, Bush finally let the real reason slip yesterday. It was either in his speech or answering reporters questions afterwards, he said "We are in Iraq to prevent radical Islamists from gaining control of the oil". I need to go look for a transcript to make an exact quote but that was the message.

So i that bush's job then, it just seems to me he keeps changing his mind.
Does anyone know what bush's job actually is ??
Apart from napping and playing golf ohh and goofing his words.

UN: Unprecedented Iraqi deaths

UN: Unprecedented Iraqi deaths

Sept. 21 - According to a new United Nations report, Iraqi civilians are being killed in sectarian violence in record numbers.

www.cnn.com...

We can't tolerate a new terrorist state in the heart of the Middle East with large oil reserves that could be used to fund its radical ambitions or used to inflict economic damage on the West.
------

The stakes couldn't be any higher, as I said earlier, in the world in which we live. There are extreme elements that use religion to achieve objectives. And they want us to leave. And they want to topple government. They want to extend an ideological caliphate that has no concept of liberty inherent in their beliefs.

They want to control oil resources and they want to plot and plan and attack us again. That's their objectives.

And so -- and our strategic objective is to prevent them from doing that. And we're constantly changing tactics to achieve that objective. And I appreciate Senator Warner going over there and taking a look.
------

Our policy is to help this country succeed, because I understand the stakes. And I'm going to repeat them one more time. As a matter of fact, I'm going to spend a lot of time repeating the stakes about what life is like in the Middle East.

It is conceivable that there will be a world in which radical forms -- extreme forms of religion fight each other for influence in the Middle East; in which they've got the capacity to use oil as an economic weapon.

There you go. No mention of WMDs, liberation, spreading democracy. It's all about controlling the oil.

Originally posted by Nygdan
The death of 600,000 iraqis is well worth preventing another 911. US foreign policy exists to help the US, not other countries.

The worst sentiment I have read on this board, well done.


The entire policy in the Middle East is wrong. An illegal and immoral war based on lies and deceit, which is not making the world a safer place or spreading democracy.

It was the wrong decision and we are all going to reap what has been sowed.

Asking families in Iraq who they have lost and then extrapolating the data to get a ballpark figure for the everchanging death-toll in Iraq is only a "political" move before the November elections, so don't worry - it's just spin; the war in Iraq is going great and the world is watching with Shock and Awe at the might of the greatest nations on Planet Earth.

"Mission Accomplished".

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by falcon
In the start of the war with iraq I reported a news story showing 100,000 iraqi's killled in the war in Iraq and the Media called it false and tryed to discredit it. Afterwords the FBI raided the server it was on and removed the story to attempt to do damage control.

That was in 2003. Its 2006 I have no question the numbers are higher now.

Falcon

The story was debunked and not just by the media itself, but by many members of ATS as well.

Some people care more about being right, about being the "good guy" the kinda guy that "would never support a war for any cause" the kinda guy that represents all good and truthful, that they become the liars, the hate filled replicas of the very people they seem to despise.

Some people are so filled with there own opinions that facts are disregarded if it does not fit the agenda, such as this group claiming 655,000 cassualities through a research method that has been deemed un scientific, Falcon and those like him will back these claims till the end. The back them, not because they want to see the end of human sufforing, no, liberal tyrannies are often the most brutal, but instead because it best fits with their own agenda, the agenda they don't talk about. It is a two way power street and when one side has the power the other wants it back, and to appear more right.. more needed then the right, the left will use these false statements like they usually do, they will minipulate the truth, disregard the facts, blatently lie just to fit that agenda.

CNN even said these numbers are far over inflated, the number is some where between 50,000 and 100,000. That is still alot of people, why not use those numbers? Because 655,000 simply looks better when you are trying to look better your self.

For this retarded claim to be true, nearly 600 Iraqis would have to die every single day and 18,000 every month. You do the math. The death toll is pretty high but no where near that high. I believe it to be around 60,000 dead. I'm not a supporter of this stupid war but lets be realistic here.

I just we leave very soon. I'm tired of our soldiers dieing for such a stupid group of people who prefer muslim law over democracy. Iraqis are not worth our soldiers lives.

[edit on 10/12/06 by pugachev]

Well I have to say, I am amazed by some Ignorant answers by fellow members and moderators on this topic; actually I am not surpised, since we all know there are many, MANY Agent Provocatours on this board, who have infitrated here just to spread missinformation and confuse the public even more, and to ofcourse do 3 things:

1. debunk
2. Debunk
3. DEBUNK

...everything that has to do with putting a bad light upon the might Imperium Americana, and what it is doing in Middle East and calling it Democracy and Liberty.

Clearly this news is a big sign, saying one thing:

GENOCIDE

But since we all know that the noble USArmy does,

NOT DO BODYCOUNTS ON IRAQI CIVILIANS;

Other independant agencies have to fill that gap.

So, why are people shocked aftear reading this?

Is there any other more accurate way of determening the number of Casualties?

If there is, can the Debunk Team please present them to us?

Or is the Debunk Team too busy debunking and getting payed for each and every post they do in the name of numerous US goverment branches, which are present on this board.

According to the reasearch:

Washington Post

According to the survey results, Iraq's mortality rate in the year before the invasion was 5.5 deaths per 1,000 people; in the post-invasion period it was 13.3 deaths per 1,000 people per year. The difference between these rates was used to calculate "excess deaths."

So - the mortality rate of Iraqi civilians has risen almost 3 times as much.

Why is that?

Can the Debunk Team please explain, how come the mortality rate after the Liberation of Iraq has risen so much, that it would be better for people of Iraq if Saddam was actually in control this day.

So now we have these numbers:

USArmy says: WE DON'T DO BODYCOUNTS (oops, that's not a number!)

IraqBodyCount says: 44,000 to 49,000 Iraqi civilians killed since the invasion.

Iraqi nongovernmental organization: estimated 128,000 deaths between the invasion and July 2005.

Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health: 655,000 killed.

So what is the avarege: 277,333 civilians killed.

And yet again, we can see that 31% of the Iraqi Civilians Casualties are caused by US&Coalition troops.

Well as long as there is a budget of 20 million $ for the celebration party for victories in Iraq and Afganistan.

Moloch Loves That #!