Radical Baptists from Kansas Say They will Picket Amish Funerals in PA

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
He mentioned how groups like the Westboro is going to sway public opinion against all Christians.

That's been happening for a long time already. Some televangelists have presented an unappealing image which much of the general public applies to all Christians. It isn't just groups such as the ones that were planning to protest the funeral of the Amish children....there are many others which have caused a very negative impression of Christians. This
results in disapproval and even hatred among portions of the public against all Christians in general.

Too bad there aren't more Christians like tha Amish. If they were the ones on television instead of some of the televangelists the public view of Christians would probably be less hostile. Although there will always be some people who will hate Christians simply because there will always be some evil people in the world until Jesus returns.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

I haven't been "suckered" into anything. I know the history of the church and it's not a very pretty one. I can list a host of violent actions the church has committed from the crusades to the killing of the "heretics". So please do not accuse me of being "suckered" into anything when I am quite aware of what is really going on.

Good day, sir

[edit on 5-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 5-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

here we go again.

so, if i was rasied catholic, but i dotn go anymore...but my parents do...am i off the hook for the crusades and the inquesition? are they still guilty?

how about my family that emigrated here in the 20's from germany? we off the hook for the nazi atrocities?

would my family be off the hook for what happened to the native americans if we didnt get here til the 20s?

when are we going to stop holding the past against those of us in the present?

whens the last time the catholic church had anyone killed in large numbers? hell, small ones?

do we still keep our eyes on germany and japan so they dotn start the next war?

cmon guys

but, to the present. the phelps clan in my mind are a bunch of whack jobs. and i never use that term lightly. the only thing that makes anyone a "christian" is their declaration of it. that, and following up on it with living as a christian.

i really have to wonder which "christ" the phelps clan follows...cuz its sure not the one i was ever told about.

[edit on 5-10-2006 by Damocles]

Originally posted by SkyWay

Originally posted by Eddie Peoples
In my opinion, bringing a child up with religious beliefs is one of the most dangerous things you can do and it should be outlawed throughout the world.

It just seemed as though he was being overly general about religious beliefs. If he had specified THEIR (Westboro Baptist Group) religious beliefs, then it would indicate a very small number of religious people, but the way he worded it indicates religious beliefs in general which is unfair and untrue. Some people tend to oversimplify their views of religion which is why many of them think all Christians are like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.

A little off topic but my take on the original comment was that he was being general about religious beliefs. I took it to mean that no one should raise their children with religious beliefs, ie let them decide for themselves when they are old enough.

It is the parents responsibility to educate their child in all the ways of the world and yes we do impart our belief systemsl, religious or other, onto our children. We teach our children our view of the world ... we teach them how to treat other people and the morals of what is right and wrong. That is called parenting.

I personally am Agnostic, if my child decided to pick any religion (short of the cults like WBC) I would support/allow it. I totally understand how someone with a strong faith would raise their children with the same beliefs, why wouldn't they?

It's sometimes said that we've erred on the side of caution concerning our 1st Ammendment. This is definitely one case. This group has pushed its self righteous, hate-filled message to the point that it's become truly pornographic. I'm 100% for the freedom of speech but this isn't free expression, its hate porno. So it should be treated as any other type of explicit pornography, zero coverage. Is it censorship, hell yes but it should self-censorship being exercised by the mass media by simply not reporting it. They threatened to protest and got coverage. Every time they step in front of a camera or a microphone, they should be allowed to speak freely in public but that doesn't mean that they should be given free national press coverage to spew their hate. Let them shout from the roof tops if they like but please their message and actions aren't newsworthy.

crgintx makes a great piont....the govt doesnt have to pass laws or censor them. media organizations are private companies. why dont we ask them to just ignore these whackos?

Originally posted by Damocles
crgintx makes a great piont....the govt doesnt have to pass laws or censor them. media organizations are private companies. why dont we ask them to just ignore these whackos?

Sometimes it's a good idea to display the rampent ignorance of small extreamist groups like this. It helps everyone else to see the kind of idioticy that can be summoned by losing touch with reality.

By giving these people media exposure, we can all learn something about how ignorant our fellow man can be... even within our own sociaties. It's good to remember that Christian extreamists can be just as insane as Islamic nut-jobs.

I did actually mean that I believe to bring a child up under ANY religious indoctrination is, I believe, irresponsible and tantamount to brain-washing. If you happen to hold some religious beliefs yourself you are bound to disagree with me and take offence to this opinion but that only validates it further. Please do not confuse this with good parenting and explaining morals and such to a child, they are totally different things. The things I am opposed to is a childs' indoctrination into any sort of religious organisation before they are able to make up thier own "educated" mind, for example at the same age society sees fit to allow them to have sex or vote. Basically following religion should be an adult descision.

Anybody that disagrees with this logic must be some sort of zealot.

I have nothing against people's goodwill wherever it comes from. If somebody sees their religion of personal religious views or stance as being mostly about being nice to people and helping others, etc, then you must be an intrinsically nice person, no?

If so, why do you need a religion to be nice? Can't you be just as nice and tollerant and understanding without mentioning Jesus and God?

If you can, excellent, you are a genuinely nice person. If not, I can only conclude that you're a psycho and no better then this bunch of loons we've been talking about.

Think about it. Without religion we would only have bad people doing bad things and good people doing good things. With religion you all think you're right and everybody else can go to hell because you've been told you've got God on your side. If we can't get rid of religion or at least marginalise it from society (globally), we're so finished as a species.

rofl call me wishywashy but i can also see bit point of view as well, where i disagree is that giving them mass exposure could help other whackos link up with them. theres plenty out there


eddie...nothing personal...but objectivly speaking could you admit that you yourself come off as kind of a, how did you put it? psycho zealot loon?

agree with you or we're loons? cmon...

The problem isn't with the ideals of modern religion, it's with its followers who interpret its ideals as a license to discriminate,marginalize,dominate or destroy those who don't share their narrow view point of those ideals. None of the 3 modern monotheistic religion say that its okay to intimidate non-believers into worshiping God or Allah.
All modern secular law has a foundation based on some previous religious law. Without religion, we'd be so much poorer creatures facing death without hope. People without hope are the walking dead.

Originally posted by Damocles
rofl call me wishywashy but i can also see bit point of view as well, where i disagree is that giving them mass exposure could help other whackos link up with them. theres plenty out there

Ya know...

Maybe helping the loonies to link up wouldn't be a bad thing. Let 'em get together and build their compounds. Makes it easier to keep track on 'em and when the time comes, if they need to be stepped on, that becomes easier too.

heh anyone have thoughts on the idea i mentioned about sending a link to freds site to an islamic site?

im sure the radical islamics would LOVE to read his thoughts...

spread the good word and all taht?


sorry, thats just mean of me rofl

Originally posted by Damocles

here we go again.

so, if i was rasied catholic, but i dotn go anymore...but my parents do...am i off the hook for the crusades and the inquesition? are they still guilty?

how about my family that emigrated here in the 20's from germany? we off the hook for the nazi atrocities?

would my family be off the hook for what happened to the native americans if we didnt get here til the 20s?

when are we going to stop holding the past against those of us in the present?

No. However, you can't just pretend like it never happened.

I read in the Washington Post this morning that the funerals will be held at the homes of the families. the community then gets together afterwards and holds a foot processional to the cemetery, carrying the caskets. these people are much closer and honest about death than most Americans. I feel for them tremendously.

I hope that the local authorities block their protest based upon having no permit. Besides, since there will be four funerals, they will be at four different places. That's four different permits they would need.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

No. However, you can't just pretend like it never happened.

of course we cant, but its a sins of the father issue. if a man commits murder and is sentanced to 100 years, but dies after 30, do we put his son in prison to serve out the balance? of course not.

theres not a man alive today who took part in the crusades. all im saying. but, it is a part of recorded history and theres nothing any of us can do to change it. but to rationally think that the current incarnation of the Roman Catholic faith would again be in favor of such activities is just nuts. its just bringing up the past lookin for a fight but, it does make for good conversation and debates

sorry for going off topic

Originally posted by Damocles


sorry for going off topic

Yeah,I am bad about that too. I see something in a thread that someone posted and I just have to respond. The bad thing is that generally it has absolutely nothing to do with what the thread is about.

when will all the sheep stop and think? really think?i give you a clue.(science) it will set you free..so as long as where here lets ride this thing till the wheels fall off!!!you know people believed in witches and vampires and werewolves at one time or another...fairies were big at one time....so who is to say whos religion is right...can i get a visable savior to lead us through our final prayer?? SAVE ME!!

This will not surprise me if its true...follow ideals, not people!

Originally posted by KLSyesca
when will all the sheep stop and think? really think?i give you a clue.(science) it will set you free..so as long as where here lets ride this thing till the wheels fall off!!!you know people believed in witches and vampires and werewolves at one time or another...fairies were big at one time....so who is to say whos religion is right...can i get a visable savior to lead us through our final prayer?? SAVE ME!!

Science is just another form of belief that all there is to the world is material. Science cant' even accurately define time depending on which physicist you talk to. Here's a kicker for you, what is the theology? It's the scientific study of religion and belief. How many times has science been wrong in the past?
I'm not saying religion has all the answers to the mysteries of the universe but in the pursuit of wisdom, knowledge and logic are only a couple of tools in the box. If you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. No amount of science or technology will every solve all the problems of humanity faces or will face.

I happen to live in Topeka ... actually just about 6 blocks from the Phelps "compound" (completely fenced in around the "church" and the several houses where the entire congregation/family lives) ... I get to see these people everday. Just a few among some of their more atrocious acts:

- picketing the funeral of an infant which died of AIDS (according to these people, the "gay disease") www.GodHatesFags.com...

- picketing funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq

- after the death of Pricess Diana, carrying a sign with her face on it that read "Burn in Hell Royal Whore"

- Flying the American flag upside down at nearly every protest (which they do daily in our city)

- Flying a huge banner from the compound for their site:
www.GodHatesAmerica.org...

- Being kicked off the Ricki Lake show at the height of it's trashiness AND being rejected from the Jerry Springer show (you know you're bad when ...)

@SpookshowJon: Thanks for the links, these people are truly awful and have absolutely no place within the confines of being a true Christian.

But like almost every religion, they have their radicals, who just use religion as a backing for more hate. Not saying religion is bad (I'm a religous person myself) but it's just that the majority of bad deeds regarding religion always make the headlines, and then people assume every Christian thinks like that. A word of advice, WE DON'T.