Why The Criticism Of John Lear?

Originally posted by Access Denied

Looks like you quoted me before I had a chance to finish editing my post. Nice catch… or did a mod help you recover it from the trash bin?

(you guys are way too predictable

)

I have a fairly extensive library and I was quoting from one of the 2 original Lunar Orbiter publications. They are in a 10 x 14 format, hardbound, one is: The Moon As Viewed By Lunar Orbiter and the other is: Guide To Lunar Orbiter Photographs.

I prefer to work with original data rather than that data 'sifted' over the past 40 years which will probably tell me that what I see is not actually what is there. The 'original data' I have has already been sifted quite enough thank you.

The reason John Lear was criticised was because he couldn't answer a few basic aviation questions asked by DEFCON5.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read the whole thread to grasp the whole concept.


Mod Edit: This is not the real Bob Lazar, it's just a current member that decided to mislead everyone by registering another account.

[edit on 5-10-2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by b0b lazar

The reason John Lear was criticised was because he couldn't answer a few basic aviation questions asked by DEFCON5.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read the whole thread to grasp the whole concept.

Hi Bob,

I'm surprised to see you on ATS and I think you know why. But welcome!!!

Yeah, the old memory is fading fast and I just can't remember what color hydroic fluid is if I even knew what hydroic fluid was in the first place. And the dancing ramp rats waving their arms and giving me the finger, I think I got the message. Sometimes I think they just hated flight crews.

But listen, I thought just to prove you are Bob Lazar I thought you might answer a couple of questions of my own. Question that only you and I would know. F'rinstance:

What was the stunt I pulled at the supper club on Sahara where you gave me a 10!

And what was the vehicle and what was the clocked speed for which you were nabbed by the Nevada Higway Patrol on your infamous run from Reno to Las Vegas.

And what was the eventual fine?

And what was color was my pool after your revenge for the diet pepsi can prank I pulled?

One more: What car were you and I in when we had that bit part in "Honeymoon In Vegas" in front of the MGM Grand?

By the by...how are things in Albuquerque, er, you know, wherever you are?


signature
The above is my opinion and is intended to promote discussion. It is not represented as fact unless so stated.

This is becaming too interesting...now i wanna see what that "bOb" will answer...

I'm just interested in everything John has to say. Other than the fact that I'm scaring myself into not sleeping by reading anything(whether it's true or not), I'm good!

I read a couple of Mr. Lear's threads before I knew who he was. I found his claims incredible to the point of being ridiculous. Spacecraft whose length equals the circumference of Earth are just a little too big for Scamandrius to swallow.

However, to judge from his posts, Mr. Lear appears to be a decent sort of fellow. He doesn't come across as a huckster or an egotistical fraud. He comes across -- to me, at least -- as sincerely deluded. If there is anything suspicious about his presentation, it is his evident good grasp on reality when it comes to matters that do not impinge on his obsession. But I have met others of that kind -- Indian holy men, the miracle-working type, often present themselves in a similar no-nonsense way.

So I've chosen never to cross swords with Mr. Lear. There doesn't seem to be much point.

One thing, however, bothers me, and that is the fact that John Lear seems to get special treatment from the authorities on ATS. I remember reading something by one of the Three Amigos once, where it said, effectively, that Mr. Lear was an important sort of chap in the UFO community and that we should be grateful that he was giving of his precious time to participate on ATS and therefore we shouldn't be rough on him. And it worked, that; he's had a remarkably smooth ride here ever since.

This, I strongly disagree with.

As far as I am concerned -- and as far as any sensible person should be concerned -- John Lear is just another ATS member. Of course he should be treated with courtesy and decency. But that does not mean that he and his claims should not be subjected to the same merciless inquiry that others' receive. In particular, it means that he should be held to the same standard of proof demanded of every other claimant on ATS. 'This is my opinion' simply isn't good enough.

If that puts him off, or scares him away from the board, we'll know what to think, won't we?

The kid-gloves treatment of John Lear should end now. It is putting the credibility of ATS at risk.

Since Mr. Lear has posted on this thread, I expect he is reading this. If so, I would be very interested to hear what he's got to say about it.

Originally posted by johnlear

Yeah, the old memory is fading fast and I just can't remember what color hydroic fluid is if I even knew what hydroic fluid was in the first place.

ok - comiserations , regards your failing memory -- i know how it feels .

but it does raise an interesting point -- if your memory really is failing , how do we know that the annecdotes , reccolections and reportage of what you saw / were told over the years are infact accurate

you cannot have it both ways avoiding any question you do not wish to answer citing " failing memory " , then expect subsequent , or even previous " reccoloections " to be accepted as fact .

secondly -- and more distrubing -- you have claimed to be qualified as as "Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic" but claim as one ` get out clause ` that you might not have ever known what colour hydaraulic fluids ever were --

JEBUS WEPT

did you actually qualify , or just buy your " qualifications " from a diploma mill " ????

i always suspected that your impressive qualifactions were simply the " badge collecting " of a rich bored dilletante .

but now ..............................

But listen, I thought just to prove you are Bob Lazar I thought you might answer a couple of questions of my own. Question that only you and I would know. F'rinstance:

ROFLMAO :

while evading any meaningfull anser to questions about yourself , you now have the temerity to deman " proof of identity " from another member , based on ........

... wait for it

your claimeds of shared experiences - which only the two of you should know the " correct " answer to

leaving aside the fact that should " bob lazar" supply any answer -- we would only have your honesty or lack of to use as any sort of verification .

oh the irony

PS :i have grave doubts that ATS member "bob lazar" is the delusional nut job turned fireworks sakesman who claimed to have worked @ A51 .

but your responses are always good for a laugh .

Originally posted by Apass

Using those pictures to search for anomalies..well...it's just like I said in Rorschach inkblot test for a bunch of ATSers.

So just what exactly are YOU claiming by making the judgement call "for a bunch of ATSers."?

your claimeds of shared experiences - which only the two of you should know the " correct " answer to

leaving aside the fact that should " bob lazar" supply any answer -- we would only have your honesty or lack of to use as any sort of verification .

It probably is the real Bob Lazar, but also could be a staged appearance. Followed immediately, by John's questions. which were repeated in the same way on the other post's Bob made in other threads.

You're right! Bob answering the questions 'correctly" would hardly prove to us, he is proving himself to John.

Originally posted by Access Denied
The Clementine and SMART-1 missions were completely different from the Lunar Orbiter missions which were optimized for evaluating potential landing sites. Both Clementine and SMART-1 used much more sophisticated imaging techniques which could have been used to achieve an order of magnitude or more higher resolution images if that had been the goal so what’s the problem?

The 'problem' should be obvious. From the beginning of this thread you've claimed that the images from clementine and smart-1 are higher resolution than the LOC images that John Lear provided for discussion. All you have to do is click the link to view the hi-res photo's and see for yourself that they are much more detailed than anything clementine or smart-1 released. Or to prove me wrong, just type a link of your own to the better quality photo's that you say exist. Mission tables, camera specs, and something "which could have been used" aren't doing it my friend.

Originally posted by b0b lazar
The reason John Lear was criticised was because he couldn't answer a few basic aviation questions asked by DEFCON5.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read the whole thread to grasp the whole concept.

The above post was NOT the real Bob Lazar, but only a poser pretending to be.

Sorry for the confusion.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by Implosion
Are you trying to turn people around to your own way of thinking? If so, why?

No, I don't care what people think. If I did, I would probably have answered Defcon5's aviation preschool/nursery/ramprat questions differently.

I let this slide before but here you go…

Originally posted by johnlear

What are the major assemblies to a wheel assembly?

Air and tire.

You should know that air is not used, Nitrogen is used. That is so you don’t build up condensation and the tire is less prone to pressure changes.


NOW…..

Should we continue with this or let it lie, Mr. Lear?
You see, I can do this all day long, if you want to keep it up.

This is the second time that you have personally attacked me for my asking you some simple questions in a polite way. I originally asked them because I saw glaring mistakes, like the one above, in some of your posts. This might not seem like a big deal, but there have been “Truth Movement” folks that quote you like you’re the friggen bible, and they use that to shoot down legitimate posts by those that have worked in the field. It has been personally done to me, and the guy who used to do it had several “Sock Puppet”, fake accounts he used.

I have been assured that you are in fact the real deal, Mr. Lear, so I withdrew my last post, and let the matter lay. You, however, in doing damage control have now, twice that I have seen, called my credibility into question and I will not allow that to happen without a fight. For whatever reason you were unable or unwilling to answer those basic questions, and now you have to deal with the ramifications of that, not me. If you want to continue to attack me to regain credibility, then I will defend myself, without hesitation.

Originally posted by johnlear
Yeah, the old memory is fading fast and I just can't remember what color hydroic fluid is if I even knew what hydroic fluid was in the first place. And the dancing ramp rats waving their arms and giving me the finger, I think I got the message.

Ramp-Rat is a derogatory term for a ramp agent, for anyone here that has not caught that, and it has now been used at least twice in reference to me in other threads because of that thread. It is the first bit of slang that I have actually seen used by Mr. Lear, that even hints to the fact that he actually has ever been on a ramp.

I only spent 6 months as a ramp agent; the rest of my time was spent as lead agent, supervisor, and fueler. I was also in charge of training new personnel. Either way I suppose I should not be insulted in being called this, as most of my ramp agents were great guys, that went on to do bigger and better things over time.

Originally posted by johnlear
Sometimes I think they just hated flight crews.

Only the really arrogant, pushy, or demanding pilots. 99% of the pilots I ever worked with were sober, serious, and great guys to work with ( They did bitch a lot though, which all ground crew hates, as Mr. Lear mentioned in the other thread ). Some of the funniest things I have ever seen in my life were as the result of flight crews joking around between flights, and I have had many great discussions with flight crews while hanging around in flight ops.

I now work in the medical field and I often have patients that are retired ex-military pilots. I truly enjoy talking with guys like that who have been there, done, and seen amazing things. I have no grudge with anyone because they were a flight crewmember, quite the opposite it tends to endear me to them.


With that said I would ask that you please stop the little digs, and I will leave you alone to commune with the UFO’s, Soul Catchers, 7 mile towers, and Holographic worlds.

K...


[edit on 10/5/2006 by defcon5]

Originally posted by ferretman2
The problem is not what John espouses.

It's the fact that no proof is given what-so-ever.

We are only told to buy a book from him ($50.00)....which just 'happens' to be from a friend of his.

I know nothing of this man (woman?), what his 'skills' are or his/her 'talents'.

At least with other 'out-there' thread, those individuals back up their claims with purported 'facts'.

I see your point & can agree somewhat, but I don't think it's played out that way on every thread he's posted on. Yes sometimes there's no proof. In some instances I don't know if there is any evidence that could be produced. . . That makes me wonder how he can come up with some of the stuff he does, and I usually move along until such a time that he can produce something that would sway me to believe him.

One other point I would like to mention. He doesn't start any threads. He only posts. The only thread of his I can find is the George Knapp guest speaker event here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I guess as long as he believes his opinions, and he is not intentionally posting false info, he's not breaking the rules here by having quite a lack of tangible evidence to back up his "opinions". This happens all the time here with many of the issues talked about on ATS. I guess it's up to the mods to decide how many dubious opinions he can post without evidence, but again, that happens all the time here.

I do also believe that anyone, no matter who they are & what their status is here at ATS is fair game if they choose to express an uncommon theory with no way to back it up. Some people have expressed opinions that he should not be treated in such a way because he is John Lear, and I totally disagree with this. No one should be exempt from skepticism. We all put our pants on & tie our shoes the same way, so we should all be treated as such.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
secondly -- and more distrubing -- you have claimed to be qualified as as "Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic" but claim as one ` get out clause ` that you might not have ever known what colour hydaraulic fluids ever were --

Actually, according to SkyDrol, which is the most commonly used fluid, the color is purple right out of the can. It’s the color of the boarder of the web site, which to me it looks pinkish/purple. The stuff I would see leaking from the planes however was lighter pink colored as it was old and thinned out. I just wanted to clarify that before someone else rams it down my throat.

SkyDrol

[edit on 10/5/2006 by defcon5]

Seems every thread a member starts about John, somebody who hasn't read the other 12 existing threads, doesn't believe it's the real John Lear OR thinks John is getting "speacial treatment" from us.

BOLLOCKS to both. He is the "real" John Lear (I spoke with him last night on the phone), and he is NOT getting "special treatment". I'll say this ONE MORE TIME:

If ANY MEMBER is asked a general "what do you think/believe" question by another member(s) they too are WELCOME to share their beliefs without the burden of "proving" said beliefs. John, has gone to personal expense to send me CDs with his moon pictures on them which, is in fact MORE than anyother Member has ever done that I am aware of.

The ONLY required treatment of John Lear is the demand for civility, like ANY OTHER MEMBER.

Any questions need to be addressed in the complaints forum.

ENOUGH already.

Springer...


[edit on 10-5-2006 by Springer]

Let me state that I'm a 'UFO driven by little gray aliens' agnostic. I've seen very strange lights in the nights skies as well as one daytime brief glimpse of a strangely shaped vehicle while crossing the Atlantic in a USAF Tanker. 5-10 seconds at most. These sightings roused my curiousity. I feel that sighings like these unidentified aerial phenomena deserve real scientific cataloguing and study as you would any strange event.

John Lear has offered his interpretations of photographs and other info. From ever post that of his that I've read, he's never asked anyone to blindly accept his interpretation as truth. He's asking you to look and comment. If he's a disinformation agent, he's a damned good one. I consider his posts a credible source of thought provoking info.

IMHO personal attacks don't serve the ATS primary goal of exposing the truth from those who keep knowledge secret from humanity for the purpose of personal gain.

Spinger. Where is your "way above" button.

Excellent post

Originally posted by ultralo1
Spinger. Where is your "way above" button.

We set the site up to where admins, mods and site-owners (I fall in two of those categories) can't get votes. Now that I think about that it may be a good thing. Thanks for the praise, but I'm only stating the obvious here.

Springer...

A long time ago, it took one person, one person, to stick there neck out with wild perposterous idea's.


Now, what if this person buckled under peer pressures or skeptical analysis that mearly was designed to belittle the person, or to attempt to disprove what has yet to be proven?

Yes,..

...we would still be living on a "flat" earth instead of a round one, and fear for sailing off the edge of the world keeping us safe and happy (and ignorant) at home.

Lack of proof is by no means to suggest that something doesnt exist, no more than existance of proofs defining something does in fact exist, as we know it.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

secondly -- and more distrubing -- you have claimed to be qualified as as "Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic" but claim as one ` get out clause ` that you might not have ever known what colour hydaraulic fluids ever were --

Actually, ignorant_ape, I was facetiously calling into question DEFCON5's spelling of 'hydraulic' fluid. (DEFCON5...."What color is Hydroic fluid?")

i always suspected that your impressive qualifactions were simply the " badge collecting " of a rich bored dilletante .

Badge collecting? And shiny, huh?

Rich? Hardly.

Bored? I was never bored.

Dilletante? As in amatuer? I have never denied that. The only reason I posted my certificates was because DEFCON5 said he thought my experience had been limited to small aircraft. And contrary to other posts, I have never used my FAA certificates to back up my UFO stories. And further, I have never said that my flights for the CIA gave me access to any, thats any, UFO information.

but your responses are always good for a laugh .

And really, ignornat_ape, isn't good humor what its all about?