NAMBLA - North American Man/Boy Love Association

IK I too would have to strongly disagree.

The notion that most 12 year old children are capable of making an educated decision surrounding sex is alittle off the wall for myself.

Are their children at that age who are capable?

Yes. However they are an extreme minority in their age bracket.

The fact is, we can not abolish laws that protect millions in order to support a select few.

I don't think it should be abolished either, it's here to protect people.

But if I were to set a system for it up, some 12 year old could'nt just
go have sex with a 30 year old, there would have to be psychological
and intellectual tests done on both parties first.

You have no problem with a thirty year old man having sex with a 12 year old child? Maturity aside, this is simply wrong.

We can talk about the stigma we have put on this sort of thing, but it is a complete exploitation of the child and their rights. Taking advantage of a child who is not aware of the consequences their decision will hold is wrong.

What's wrong wih it if the child understands it, is not being pressured,
and is consenting to do it?

We protect our children in the justice system and offer lesser punishments. Anyone who is under the age of 18 in Canada is considered a youth and not held accountable to their actions, to the same degree as an adult.

If our laws dictate that a 17 year old is not capable of comprehending the ramifications of their choice, how are we to expect a 12 year old can make an informed decision on sex.

Some people never grasp onto making the right decisions on sex, but were asking a twelve year old too? We have to prevent them from making this decision and continue to enforce the existing laws.

I'm confused to why you would accept that since the 12 year old is consenting that it would be sufficient.

Well, as I said, they'd have to go through testing to make sure they
actually did understand what they were consenting to, so there would
be safety walls to make sure that someone who did'nt understand what
they wee consenting to do could'nt be taken advantage of.



EDIT:
Spelling.

[edit on 10/1/2006 by iori_komei]

I don't believe any form of testing is going to beable to measure the maturity and sexual intelligence of a child. They maybe capable of answering some questions, but truly understanding the consequences and long term effects that may come with it are quite unmeasurable.

We can not deprive the children of their innocence, their time will come to experience all of these emotions.

Why inject something as mature as sex into the life of a child that should be home playing with their Barbie Dolls? Having sex is an action that carries with it a lot of baggage. Why destroy their childhood sooner than we have too?

Besides it is just sick to think of sex between a 30 or 20 year old and a 12 year old.

I have to go shower.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Why inject something as mature as sex into the life of a child that should be home playing with their Barbie Dolls? Having sex is an action that carries with it a lot of baggage. Why destroy their childhood sooner than we have too?

Besides it is just sick to think of sex between a 30 or 20 year old and a 12 year old.

I have to go shower.

Semper

Semper this post says it all children having sex is just wrong. The vast majority can't totally comprend the long term effects sex can have. The thought of adults having sex with minors is enough to make me ill.

gh

Suffice it to say, I have very personal experience with this and I have to walk away from the computer at times to keep from being thrown off of here.

It is FAR more insidious than many may be aware of. The effects last a lifetime and are debilitating to the extreme.

Semper

The more perverse and corrupt our society becomes, the more justification the government has in taking control over everyone.

Originally posted by semperfortis
..child that should be home playing with their Barbie Dolls?..

I was'nt aware alot of boys played with Barbie Dolls..
And since this thread is originally about NAMBLA, I assume you're
talking about male children.


When it comes right down to it, we all have our seperate beliefs on
the matter. And as I'm sort of tired of talking about the subject, and no
amount of trying to convine me to belive otherwise is actually going to
work, I'm gonna just stop talking/defending/explaining my beliefs on
the matter for the most part.

IK,

It's called an Analogy...

Semper

Ohh..Right..

I really should'nt write when I'm tired, I tend to not notice things,
or think things through.

Happens to us all...

Work makes me that way too..

Semper

IK,

Its clear your beliefs are strong and supported. So it was never my intention to change your beliefs, only to try to understand.

Oh,I realise you were'nt trying to Chissler, I put that in
there more as something so someone else later on who reads
my posts won't try.

I assumed we understood one another, but I'd prefer clarification over assumptions any day.

I'm not even sure if I agree to disagree on this one, but I do respect your opinion and your willingness to back it. It's a controversial stance, takes some beans to do it.

I can respect that.

Is everyone serious? I mean, look in the mirror (conceptually). We have members on this board wanting to firebomb NAMBLA meetings, search personal belongings of NAMBLA members, and even to the point wish of their demise. Yet, at the same time, we embrace intellectual freedom - unless it is for a minority. Yes, I used the word minority. Obviously NAMBLA members constitutes a vast minority of adults in the United States that think differently than the majority.

Because these members think differently, we are to kill them (at worst), or rob them of any dignity (at best). Is it really that surprising that a group would use legal ways of trying to get their ideas across? Hell, even Martin Luther King Jr. lead illegal marches across city streets to get his unpopular views [especially in the south] across. We would rob them of the same rights?

This reminds me of scenes of neo-nazi marches. Want to know why? Well, the neo nazis would march peacefully, chanting their chants, and singing their songs, and the peaceful protesters of their marches would throw objects; in some cases, the protesters rioted! RIOTED! How dignified is it for a free country to riot when others try to peacefully and legally bring up alternative view points? Seriously..

Relentless

At the very least it should be considered that even allowing a child to have this right of discernment you would be subjecting ALL of them to the possibility of unwanted advances that most of them would not be able to deal with.

Relentless, adults consent to things all of the time that they may not know all of the subsequent consequences. The magical "adult" to "minor" distinction does not play any ultimate role with bad decisions. At what point is it okay to allow an individual to make a bad sexual decision? Canada says that point is 15, most U.S. states say 17, and some places insist you have to be 21.

Chissler

You have no problem with a thirty year old man having sex with a 12 year old child? Maturity aside, this is simply wrong.

And yet, people say the same thing about abortion. They say it is murder, and murder is obviously wrong. What do you think Chissler? Moral absolutes and the law - they don't always work together, especially when you put two large view points together. Oh, and the death penalty? Some people say that is simple wrong, too. The killing of another human being - state sanctioned, nonetheless.

And a note about rights. Isn't it interesting that a child can propagate the human species at age 17, but can not have the right to die for its country until age 18, and most interestingly, does not have the right to drink alcohol until 21? Does this really make sense to anyone?

Originally posted by radardog
Because these members think differently, we are to kill them (at worst), or rob them of any dignity (at best).

I've openly respected another members opinion to support this cause, so it should come as no surprise that I would not advocate the murders of these individuals. I do believe they are misguided and in need of some help, but murder is certainly not the answer. When members posted their strong opinions like that, responding would only take this thread down a path I did not want it to travel.

Originally posted by radardog
And yet, people say the same thing about abortion. They say it is murder, and murder is obviously wrong. What do you think Chissler? Moral absolutes and the law - they don't always work together, especially when you put two large view points together. Oh, and the death penalty? Some people say that is simple wrong, too. The killing of another human being - state sanctioned, nonetheless.

I try to avoid absolutes, grey area exists everywhere. Capital Punishment is not exactly on the same level as exploitation of a child. As my signature states, An eye for an eye makes us all blind, so I am not a supporter of capital punishment but I do understand in certain situations it is necessary.

Originally posted by radardog
And a note about rights. Isn't it interesting that a child can propagate the human species at age 17, but can not have the right to die for its country until age 18, and most interestingly, does not have the right to drink alcohol until 21? Does this really make sense to anyone?

Great point, agree with every inch of it. But the fact remains a twelve year old child is not capable of making this informed decision.

Is an eighteen year old capable of making an educated decision of sacrificing his life for his country? I don't think so, but they should be honored for the decision they do make.

Alcohol is a good point to bring up. Most parts of Canada requires you to be 19 to legally purchase alcohol (18 in others), and 21 in the United States. How many people know a youth who could of lost their life due to an underage alcohol related incident? I would bet 95% or more of the population knows somebody who could of died from a poor decision they made.

But yet some of us are comfortable with permitting them to make decisions surrounding sex?

Honestly, what would the benefit be? Other than the adultss who get their twisted kicks out of it, how does the child benefit?