NAMBLA - North American Man/Boy Love Association

Color me puzzled. NAMBLA advocates, supposedly, the lowering of the age of consent for the purposes of exploreing ones sexuality. This is a good thing how? Lowering the age of consent to what...12...10...5...where the hell does it stop. I am sorry, as much as I respect all of you herein, I strongly disagree. Psychologically, these children are in no shape or form ready for this sort of thing. Most 16 year olds aren't. How can a 12 year old be? Physically, few are ready for anything even resembling sexual conduct.

This organization is, IMHO, is a front for a bunch of pedophile wannabe's. Monster's in waiting if you will. Their advocacy of lowering the age of consent for the benefit of the child is a bunch of (place selected profanity here).

Originally posted by seagull
Color me puzzled. NAMBLA advocates, supposedly, the lowering of the age of consent for the purposes of exploreing ones sexuality. This is a good thing how? Lowering the age of consent to what...12...10...5...where the hell does it stop. I am sorry, as much as I respect all of you herein, I strongly disagree.

Seagull, go back and re-read the posts. People overwhelmingly do not support NAMBLA.

As far as where does it stop? They want to eliminate the age of consent. There are other threads in ATS about it. In one post, it was argued that an infant's smile could be construed as consent. Guess they never heard of gas pains.

JSOBecky. I am aware that no one here support NAMBLA itself. If I inadvertantly implied such, you all have my deepest apologies, such was definitely not my intent.

My question was and still remains how is lowering the age of consent, which several did indeed say, a good thing. I cast no aspersions here. I have conversed with most of you many times, and know better than to believe any of you would advocate anything these monsters in waiting want.

There intentions are to abolish consent laws, not to lower them.

We need to ask one question, who would this benefit?

It certainly is not benefiting the child. Giving them the responsibility of making sexual decisions at a young age is not reasonable. The only person this would benefit is the predators themselves.

Originally posted by seagull
My question was and still remains how is lowering the age of consent, which several did indeed say, a good thing.

Perhaps you could quote somone and ask them specifically a question because I also got the impression that you were thinking of several of us as either NAMBLA advocates or wanting to lower or abolish the age of consent. I am neither.

I do, however understand how someone could support lowering the age of consent. I was fully sexually active by choice at a very young age and I am no worse for it. But I matured very early and many people do.

However, not all do. I like the age of consent being on the high end so that adults are discouraged from having sex with young people. If the age were lowered (or removed), there would be nothing stopping them except (maybe) the consent of the 'child'. And although he may be mature enough to make that decision, he may not be. I'd rather err on the side of caution where a child's sexuality is concerned.

Just because one boy my be ready to have sex at 12, doesn't indicate that all are and that the age should be lowered to that. Many 'boys' I have known aren't ready at 18 either...

I propose this question:

If consent laws were removed and an adult were to rape a child, Would consensual be a valid defense?

Obviously consensual sex is not even an issue in these cases today due to the consent laws. But if they were removed, would that open up a defense for every pedophyle & child molestor?

Yes your Honor, I understand I am a forty-seven years old and she was only six but I swear to you she wanted it!

Is this what we would have to look forward to?

It is becoming painfully obvious to me that I badly misworded my first post, and do apologize, I certainly didn't mean to imply anything of the sort.

Originally posted by chissler
Yes your Honor, I understand I am a forty-seven years old and she was only six but I swear to you she wanted it!

Is this what we would have to look forward to?

Let me tell you from experience, some of it very recent, that when child molesters admit to their acts, that is exactly what they say in so many words. The age of the child is irrelevant. The child always wanted it, some going so far as to describe the acts of the child which they interpreted to mean that the child wanted it.

I have to admit that young children can model some pretty shocking behavior because of the sexual content of much of what passes for American popular culture, but insisting that such behavior invites a sexual response from an adult is both irresponsible and ludicrous.

Even in the case of teenagers who might indeed want it, it is the consensus of society that adults hold an unfair advantage over a minor and that such behavior is by definition exploitive.

From a legal perspective though, would it be a valid defense to say the child was consenting to the intercourse?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by chissler


Has anyone heard of this program before?

What are your thoughts on the existence of such a program?

Yeah, heard of it before. I think it's great. Easy enough to identify targets for practice. Firearms that is.

Can you tell I have a problem with child abuse?

Guess that comes from being a parent.

I couldn't have said it better myself intrepid!
There's several radio stations who have "shock jocks" that I listen to, that actually have some audio clips of some of these heathens. One in particular that makes me bristle is a tape of a grown man (a nambla member) in tears due to the fact that a very young boy doesn't want to return this twisted J.O.'s love. Sorry - there is no argument that can possibly sway my belief that this "Organization" is wrong, and all of it's members should have full background checks, including searching for child porn. In fact might I be so bold as to say they should be 1/32 of a step away from having to sign up for the sex offender list.
Just my 2 cents

Originally posted by chissler
From a legal perspective though, would it be a valid defense to say the child was consenting to the intercourse?

Chissler,

That is the very reason behind "Age of Consent" laws in every state in the union.

They do vary, but the ones I am familiar with are all 16.

I believe there may be some states that are 15, not sure and had one of those STUPID days again so I am wore out and need a nap.

Believe it or not, I spent the day going over a computer belonging to a sexual predator and need a showed desperately right now. That and a shot or two of Stoli's.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis

Originally posted by chissler
From a legal perspective though, would it be a valid defense to say the child was consenting to the intercourse?

Chissler,

That is the very reason behind "Age of Consent" laws in every state in the union.

They do vary, but the ones I am familiar with are all 16.

I believe there may be some states that are 15, not sure and had one of those STUPID days again so I am wore out and need a nap.

Believe it or not, I spent the day going over a computer belonging to a sexual predator and need a showed desperately right now. That and a shot or two of Stoli's.

Semper

Doesn't this mean between teens? Aren't child/adult intercourse 18 and up?

Oh, and semper, you earned it, after your shower, don't put the bottle away.

Hi iori_komei

I just thought I'd put what ages I think should have what consents,
just so people don't start thinking I advocatr se with 7 year olds.

8: Foreplay.
12: Sexual intercourse.

However, I think that the child should be tested to be syure they
understand what they're getting into, and it should always be consen-
tual with both parties.

Am I mistaken or did you say you think 8 year old should be allow to be fondled (foreplay) by grown men? and then legally have sex at 12? Oh with consent ofcourse.

How pray tell do you suppose we test the readyness of a child to enter an intimate relationship with anyone much less an adult?


This suggestion is frightening to me on so many levels. We had the age of concent here at 14 and we will be putting it back to 16. I could see if you had said 14 maybe, but 8 and 12? And by foreplay do you mean these kids should have oral sex? or are you limiting this to fondling by adults, with the consent of these children?


On a similar note there is a congressman that may be a suitable candidate for this group.

Originally posted by chissler
From a legal perspective though, would it be a valid defense to say the child was consenting to the intercourse?

Good point. Let's see, we don't consider them old enough to be trusted with driving a car, having a drink or even having a voice on the future of their country via the right to vote.

It's ridiculous to think that children could or should be able to consent to sex with an adult and all it's implications. At the very least it should be considered that even allowing a child to have this right of discernment you would be subjecting ALL of them to the possibility of unwanted advances that most of them would not be able to deal with.

What are your thoughts on the existence of such a program?

I wish they all would die horribly violent long and painful deaths.

I too, once thought that NAMBLA was a joke from the creators of South Park
I find it hard to believe that these sacks of crap exist at all, let alone have their own website.

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but there was a group of them outside the courthouse at Michael Jackson's trial some time back. There was a mention of them from CNN or FOX ( I can't remember which station I was watching now)

Am I mistaken or did you say you think 8 year old should be allow to be fondled (foreplay) by grown men? and then legally have sex at 12? Oh with consent ofcourse.

No, you're not mistaken.

How pray tell do you suppose we test the readyness of a child to enter an intimate relationship with anyone much less an adult?

Psychological and intellectual testing.

And by foreplay do you mean these kids should have oral sex? or are you limiting this to fondling by adults, with the consent of these children?

To tell you the truth I had'nt even thought of oral sex, I want to say
10, just because it's in the midle, but I suppose I'd put it at 12 as well.

[edit on 9/30/2006 by iori_komei]

IK.

Are you serious?

If you are

1. Can you tell me what possible psychological concepts acquaint the age of 10 or even 12 with the maturity to make sexual decisions?

and

2. Have you ever been connected with, or familiar with the long term effects that child abuse has, often the remained of their lives?

Semper



[edit on 10/1/2006 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by semperfortis
Are you serious?

I would'nt have posted my opinion twice if I were'nt.

1. Can you tell me what possible psychological concepts acquaint the age of 10 or even 12 with the maturity to make sexual decisions?

Well, first of all I want to point out that I don't fully understand the question.
That said, because at that age an individual is capable of understanding it,
and as long as they are given ALL the information, they can make valid
decision.
I was psychologicaly, Intellectually and physically matureenough at that
age to make the decisionfor myself.

2. Have you ever been connected with, or familiar with the long term effects that child abuse has, often the remained of their lives?

Yes, I am aware of the short and long term psychological effects of
child abuse.
However, if the chld is consenting, and understands, and is not forced
to go farther than tey are comfortable with, than I do't se it as abuse.

I certainly don't want to be in the position of defending NAMBLA in any way, but still I say it's a societal thing. If all young men have such relationships with their male teachers like in ancient Greece, I doubt there'd be the stigma and mental problems that occur when young boys are rarely abused in that way in our society.

But this is unacceptable behavior in modern Western society, and I certainly DON'T support any lowering of the age of consent so old men can have sex with boys.