How did Atta's passport actually survive?

a reply to: 2PacSade

When it happened and it was announce of the finding of the passport, it reminded me of how impossible things are explained away using the flimsiest of explanations and expecting the public to roll with it so easily, almost like an insult to spite the public.
Like crash test dummies being recovered 4 years before anyone ever actually manufactured such things.

originally posted by: Planette
I.S. Mossad literally has a FACTORY that makes passports for their operatives.

Disinfo.com has an entire article about it somewhere.

The 9/11 operation was a false flag. Rogue private CIA groups are involved. Wolfgang Bohringer was arrested after a manhunt by the FBI and was released by them the very same day. People heard him say when he arrested you can 't arrest me I am CIA. Wolfgang Bohringer had ties to international crime.The man disappeared never to be heard from again after his arrest. CIA involved in shady activities for decades gun running and drug smuggling. Mossad is not involved from the good work I have seen done on this. Where Atta collected Cocaine from Venice Municipal airport has established ties to the CIA.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: 2PacSade

When it happened and it was announce of the finding of the passport, it reminded me of how impossible things are explained away using the flimsiest of explanations and expecting the public to roll with it so easily, almost like an insult to spite the public.
Like crash test dummies being recovered 4 years before anyone ever actually manufactured such things.

False narrative by you. There is a long history of personal items surviving jet impacts. Including passports still recognizable after a jet exploded in mid air, or knocked down by a missile.

For the WTC, it probably has to do with the terrorists being in the cockpit. Parts of the jet passed through the tower, and out the other side. A piece of flexible material is going to survive better than a window for example. And for something to char, it must have sufficient contact time with flame.

Was the passport the only document to survive the impact, no.

Was the passport the only ID recovered at the WTC, no. Numerous ID’s were recovered from the actual rubble.

A Grieving Mother Turns the Horror of Pan Am Flight 103 into a Monument to Her Son

people.com...

By contrast, Lowenstein is grateful to the Scottish police and people of Lockerbie for their heartfelt condolences and their efforts to recover the personal effects of the victims. “It may seem bizarre,” she says, “but I’ve found myself hungering for every little piece of him.” The grisly mementos include torn clothing, half of a camera and torn ID cards. The two halves of Alexander’s suitcase landed 40 miles apart, and his windbreaker was found 60 miles from Lockerbie.

EXCLUSIVE: Why are Flight MH17 victims' personal possessions STILL lying at crash site? Families' fury as charred passport is among items found nine months after jet was blown from the sky
www.dailymail.co.uk... s-personal-possessions-NINE-MONTHS-jet-blown-sky.html

Catalogue of Sorrow: Belongings of Flight 800 Victims

mobile.nytimes.com...://www.google.com/

There is the family snapshot, two boys waving playfully, one with his arm latched around the neck of the other.

a reply to: neutronflux

I'll still go with mine over your false narrative any day.

Thanks

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

It’s false there is a long history of IDs surviving jets exploding mid air.

Is it false that numerous IDs recovered at the WTC.

Is it false other documents survived the jet impacts.

Is there proof other items from the jet were in the area of the found passport. There is evidence that suggests so.


The only thing false is your assertion of impossible.

it reminded me of how impossible things are explained away using the flimsiest of explanations

Again, long documented history of IDs surviving crashes. To say it is impossible is a proven false argument.

a reply to: neutronflux

The difference here though isn't about impossibility, it's about lies and deceit from official sources. A long and well proven history of it. And then convenient discoveries that only help the official narrative, and crucify any counter argument. It's reading between the official lines. Not that any of that is going to matter to you however.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: neutronflux

The difference here though isn't about impossibility, it's about lies and deceit from official sources. A long and well proven history of it. And then convenient discoveries that only help the official narrative, and crucify any counter argument. It's reading between the official lines. Not that any of that is going to matter to you however.

You said it was impossible for the passport to end up on the street. That is debunked.

Typical conspiracist. You could answer the questions leveled at you, or provide evidence the passport was no authentic. But you choose to rant on broader topic that has nothing to do with the passport being, or not being authentic.

Do you have proof it is impossible for the passport to end up on the sidewalk as you claim/implied. Or are you another conspiracists with nothing but false narratives? And you have not provided any proof the passport was staged. All the while ignoring questions asked of you.

no...it was announced as found within three hours.....

how bout that

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

How is this a false or impossible statement?

For the WTC, it probably has to do with the terrorists being in the cockpit. Parts of the jet passed through the tower, and out the other side. A piece of flexible material is going to survive better than a window for example. And for something to char, it must have sufficient contact time with flame.

The passport was not the only item recognized as being from a jet on the street?

originally posted by: GBP/JPY
no...it was announced as found within three hours.....

how bout that

How about what? The first jet caused interest in the WTC as soon as it hit? How about that.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: neutronflux

The difference here though isn't about impossibility, it's about lies and deceit from official sources. A long and well proven history of it. And then convenient discoveries that only help the official narrative, and crucify any counter argument. It's reading between the official lines. Not that any of that is going to matter to you however.

You said it was impossible for the passport to end up on the street. That is debunked.

Typical conspiracist. You could answer the questions leveled at you, or provide evidence the passport was no authentic. But you choose to rant on broader topic that has nothing to do with the passport being, or not being authentic.

Do you have proof it is impossible for the passport to end up on the sidewalk as you claim/implied. Or are you another conspiracists with nothing but false narratives? And you have not provided any proof the passport was staged. All the while ignoring questions asked of you.

I didn't say any such thing. I never said it was impossible. This is proof you can't even read and comprehend. Typical of your responses to also call people names. This is a method of weakness and desperation.

Go back and read it again. I clearly said It REMINDED me of how impossible things are often explained away. Based upon GW Bush's actions, reactions, and spoken words after 9-11 happened, define all these things as likely being staged for the purpose of helping to get the public and congress/senate to approve the war on Iraq. The passport is a fine example of staging a narrative to promote the desired result of a declaration of war all based upon LIES..

Perhaps if so many lies by officials were never told to the public it might then be believable. Once you tell lies to people you can never be trusted ever again, and for proof of that just look at CNN's total lack of even a smidgen of credibility because of their own lies.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

You are the one posting about things impossible in a thread about the passport? So what was impossible in relation to the passport?

So you moved the goal post? From impossible to lies?

The passport is a fine example of staging a narrative to promote the desired result of a declaration of war all based upon LIES

Again, typical of a conspiracists to abandon proving the passport is a lie to go into a rant of broad innuendo.

All the while you will not answer to a reply to your statement:

I'll still go with mine over your false narrative any day.

How is this a false or impossible statement?

For the WTC, it probably has to do with the terrorists being in the cockpit. Parts of the jet passed through the tower, and out the other side. A piece of flexible material is going to survive better than a window for example. And for something to char, it must have sufficient contact time with flame.

The passport was not the only item recognized as being from a jet on the street?

And you will not answer:
Can you cite evidence the passport is a “lie”.

It’s false there is a long history of IDs surviving jets exploding mid air. Jets hit by missiles!

Is it false that numerous IDs recovered at the WTC.

Is it false other documents survived the jet impacts.

Is there proof other items from the jet were in the area of the found passport. There is evidence that suggests so.

Strange I can cite specific facts concerning the passport? While you will not build a case concerning lies about the passport. And you keep posting in rants based on innuendo on topics not specific to the passport?

Is this thread about the passport, or government lies?

Lots of post that finding of the passport was ”convenient”? In what way?

The passport was not instrumental in determining who was in the jet. That was done from the passenger and crew lists. Financial records. Phone call and ticket purchasing.

The passport was not the basses of really anything. Not any corner stone of evidence.

DNA testing put the human remains of the terrorists at the WTC?

What was the convenance? Why plant the passport in the street?

a reply to: 2PacSade

It survived by being planted at the scene.

The passport was made of stronger stuff than the tower and plane, maybe now, they should start making airplanes from passports? Passport flies out of his pocket or the bag passport in, goes through the tower now on fire and the inferno and is found perfectly fine on a street? How come not one of the pilots followed hijacking procedures? How did the terrorists enter the pilot's cockpit through a locked door? How come none of the 4 pilots ( and co-pilots) radioed they are hijackers onboard taking over the plane. Radio silence until we hear from alleged passengers on board screaming we are hijacked?

a reply to: Jesushere

Let’s think this through with some logic.

I have posted examples of photos and ID’s still recognizable after passenger jets were blown out of the sky. By bomb or missile. So, there is a history of items surviving jet crashes.

The terrorists were in the cockpit. Parts of the passenger jets that were in front of the fuel tanks completely passed through the towers, limiting contact time with the fire. If the passport was on the street, it was not in the tower exposed to fire. So your rant on fire is mostly false. Every try to burn stacks of magazines in a fire. It’s a pain, and takes constant racking to open the books to get the pages enough oxygen to burn.

Again, it’s not like the passport was not found with other items in the street from the jet. I think the jet wreckage is what caught attention before the passport. What made the passport of interest. It was easier to collect the passport in the chaos.

I also think mail from one of the jets was also found in the street.

And again, the passport was not used as key evidence in anything. The investigation center around the passenger lists, ticket purchases, finical records, phone calls to get tickets, DNA evidence. Why bother to even stage the passport in the street.

The passport is a good example how the truth movement killed its credibility. People act as if the passport was found totally in a random spot.

Funny how conspiracists ignore context.

Funny how the passport takes on a different meaning when placed in context. IDs have known to survive crashes. Jet wreckage did escape the towers into the street by passing completely in one side and out the other of the structures. The passport was found with jet wreckage in the street, not randomly by itself.


An argument without context is hiding of facts to push false narratives.

a reply to: Jesushere

How did the terrorists enter the pilot's cockpit through a locked door?

Show us where the doors had locks in 2001.
Planes and procedures are radically different post 911.

Have you flown on planes before and after 2001?
There are times now when you can't stand anywhere close to the front restrooms.
They flat out tell you to take your seat or stand in line for the rear lav.
Leave now! They don't play around. And i'm in my 60's!

Before 2001 they might even leave the door open during cruise.

Your beliefs smack of little life experience.
Go talk to a police officer about weird things that happen during accidents.
Are you aware that shoes/boots and socks tend to come off during motorcycle accidents?
Go talk to a fireman about the weird things that shouldn't happen.

More context on the debris found on the streets after the jet impacts.

zibili.com...

After the first crash, the debris, plane parts and body parts were all over the area. Around the corner from this location, I saw an arm... It didn't occur to me how stupid it might be to walk toward the Towers at this moment. I got hit by some falling metal debris on the leg - luckily, only a slight abrasion/burn (which I didn't realize I had until about midnight that night - goes to show I was running on adrenaline all day).

zibili.com...

Someone laying a sheet on bodyparts to cover them up. Notice the bundle of sheets in his arm...

There are also grisly videos on YouTube showing the amount of debris on the streets after the jet impacts.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Artifacts like the slippers that were on board American Airlines flight 11 that crashed into the North Tower are among the most moving displays in the museum, which opens to the public on May 21

www.911memorial.org...

Sending the envelope that fell to the ground was my unremarkable act of defiance to the chaos,” Shtaingos said, “Remarkably it survived when so much else did not.”

It was surmised that the letter had been aboard one of the hijacked flights that crashed into the twin towers. It seemed the only explanation for the letter’s misdirected journey from Portsmouth to the chaotic streets of downtown New York on the morning of September 11. Both flights were bound from Boston’s Logan Airport, carrying passengers, crew members and cargo, including U.S. mail, to Los Angeles.

it was made from steel beams!