How did Atta's passport actually survive?

originally posted by: Fermy
a reply to: neutronflux

Why won't you answer my question as to your motives for opposing opinion on this and other 9-11 threads?
What are your motives ?

I have answered your question. You don’t like the answer...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It’s not about the official narrative, it’s about the right out fraudulent behavior of the truth movement.

Watching AE 9/11 Truth, Dr Wood, Steven Jones, Richard Gage exploiting 9/11 and using half truths for a bit of personal fortune and fame. The truth movement is a classic case of a grass roots movement’s credibility killed by few leading figures that are charlatans. Pushing a consumer product for a target audience.

neutronflux

The diagram beneath has to be inaccurate then? Following this path, the plane is breaking through the wall. If you think differently can you draw a diagram of where you think the exit point is in the ring E and exit D

a reply to: Jesushere

Nope. Because the breach in the wall that is visible from your posted pictures, which you are referring to, is to the right of the flight path in the diagram. The breach shown in your posted pictures was not formed by flight 77’s impact. The collapsed section of breach wall from your posted pictures did not form until 30 minutes after the impact when Ring E collapse.

a reply to: Jesushere

The fuselage of a 757 is only 12 foot in diameter. The e ring columns shredded the wings and tail and pushed the wings and tail back and against the fuselage. The exit hole out of e ring is relatively small.

a reply to: Jesushere

If you really believe what you are posting, create a new thread?

a reply to: Jesushere

That pic of the relatively undamaged offices (filing cabinets untouched and things like computer monitors still sitting on top, books etc still on desks etc etc) is brought up regularly as some sort of evidence of conspiracy or coverup but the reason is really very simple.

The plane's fuselage struck the outer ring's wall just to the right of the expansion joint in the ring, taking out the support columns at ground level and the eventual collapse after some 30 minutes sheared off the outer ring along the expansion joint revealing what's seen there IE pretty much undamaged offices as we can see and a very neat & straight failure line. The expansion joints in the uncollapsed rings can be seen on the roof of the building in overhead shots (there's a lot of them at regular intervals).

Not that this has anything to do with Atta's passport - lots of lightweight items made it to street level undamaged.

neutronflux A plane is about 20 feet in height The first floor of the Pentagon is about 14 feet.

20 feet + space between the engine and lawn rough estimate of this 25 feet. 25 feet object had to enter a 14 feet hole in the first floor? Then there's another problem, not all the columns are broken on the first floor. To the left on the first floor their columns still standing where the ACSE report said they are missing and broken?

a reply to: Jesushere

I know this part is not you fault..

not all the columns are broken on the first floor.

Conspiracists think “The jets of the WTC should have bounced off the towers because jets are light and made of aluminum”. Yet flight 77 should have broken all columns? Just funny when you compare the truth movement as a whole...,

What don’t you get about the fuselage only being 12 foot in diameter? And the nose of a 757 is backed by 150 foot of fuselage behind it.

The pentagon columns are spaced 10ft apart. The columns that did not break from impact had jet wreckage wrapped around them.

The wings and tail section started to brake and fold back against the fuselage once it hit the facade.

The components with the most mass, the landing gear and the 150 foot long fuselage, are what caused the most damage. Hence the cone shape of the path through the pentagon.

So the wreckage that had the momentum to continue through the pentagon was choked down to about diameter of the fuselage.

Therefore, the exit hole out of ring E was about as wide as the fuselage was. Even if it was a twenty foot wide hole, the outside length of one side of the pentagon is something like 920 foot long, and 70 feet high. So the hole would be relatively small. Then factor in camera angle, and the roof spanning E and D ring is blocking the view.

neutronflux the plane is 25 feet in height between the ground and the top level area of the plane. So your opinion how much of the plane hit the first floor and second floor? Why was the damage more excessive on the E ring first floor compared to the E floor the second floor? The same plane is hitting both walls at the same time?

a reply to: Thoseaintcontrails


For the official narrative to be true, all manner of laws of physics and common sense must be suspended. With proper conditioning, many humans will believe fantasy. A willing suspension of disbelief is necessary for the fantasy to be accepted, and many humans are capable of that.

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux the plane is 25 feet in height between the ground and the top level area of the plane. So your opinion how much of the plane hit the first floor and second floor? Why was the damage more excessive on the E ring first floor compared to the E floor the second floor? The same plane is hitting both walls at the same time?

How do you figure? With wheels down on the ground the tail stands about 46 tall. The landing great is about 7 foot tall. With landing gear up, and excluding the tail, the jet is about 18 foot tall from the bottom of the engines to the top of the fuselage. The jet was descending when it hit the facade, and would have continued its descent until prevented by the ground floor.

www.boeing.com...

Where does the the 25 foot come from? Again, everything broke and bent back towards the fuselage that was descending down.

a reply to: Jesushere

When standing on the landing strip, the top of the 757’s fuselage is 20 foot 7 inches above the ground with the landing gear extended. The engines clear the ground by 2 feet 5 inches minimum.

a reply to: Pilgrum

Here some pictures from the Alfred Murrah building bombing in Oklahoma City

www.nydailynews.com...

www.nydailynews.com...

Can see similar damage pattern - in Murrah building a horizontal support beam was pushed off its supporting column

The floors above it collapsed shearing offices in half , leaving the remaining office furniture

a reply to: Salander

Did you use to drone on how “they” never bothered with part numbers from flight 77 wreckage at the pentagon?

AA77's Aircraft Debris at A-E Drive Between the Pentagon Rings C & B, Wedge 1 and 2
m.youtube.com...

Any more false narratives?

a reply to: kyleplatinum

It wasn't Atta's passport. Very common knowledge.

Then you are in the wrong thread.

This thread is about Atta's passport.

Not sure who you are referring to, but never assume.

I am referring to idea that Atta's passport being found is so important towards the idea put forth that it was an inside job, Its done in YouTube videos about 9/11 conspiracies and made out like its a first time in the universe this has ever happened so it must have been planted.

Of course finding the passport is dubious at best.

The problem here is, people are just brainwashed by their government, that they will believe everything they say. If they said someone on the plane survived the impact, and the fall to the ground. The same peole who look at their governments as mini Gods would buy it, and would be on here now explaining how it is possible.

You cannot debate with these people. It is like try to convince a religous person that God is not real!

Just a shame that a good portion of the population fall into this catagory

neutronflux Even if your right still over 18+ feet just for the plane height and that's not counting the space between ground, the two engines, and the lower half body of the plane. The plane had to have had about 5 feet or 10 feet of room to stay safe.

For myself, the hole we see it too small and they're not enough visible external damage to the third floor of Ring E. Imagine the official story about the plane journey to exiting C ring further left is correct. Then please explain the punch out damage in the middle and far right corner of C ring?

Even the security tape released by the Pentagon has a different timestamp on there dated September 12. Changing the time and date extremely odd. Maybe the truthers are right the blast occurred much earlier just after 9.30am and they whoever they are changed the time on the security frames?

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux Even if your right still over 18+ feet just for the plane height and that's not counting the space between ground, the two engines, and the lower half body of the plane. The plane had to have had about 5 feet or 10 feet of room to stay safe.

For myself, the hole we see it too small and they're not enough visible external damage to the third floor of Ring E. Imagine the official story about the plane journey to exiting C ring further left is correct. Then please explain the punch out damage in the middle and far right corner of C ring?

Even the security tape released by the Pentagon has a different timestamp on there dated September 12. Changing the time and date extremely odd. Maybe the truthers are right the blast occurred much earlier just after 9.30am and they whoever they are changed the time on the security frames?

Do you research anything? Do you read what is posted? The eighteen foot is for the amount the engines hang down below the fuselage. The actual fuselage is slightly oval, it’s 13 foot tall and 12 wide. That is the actual dimensions of the fuselage.

When the jet hit the facade and passed by or through columns, the building structure pushed the wreckage against the fuselage. Or the wreckage endedup wrapped around columns that did not give. The structure of the building choked the wreckage down to the size of the fuselage. Then what knocked out the last homes was the landing gear. Not the nose of the jet.

What is the 5 to 10 of safety have to do with the E ring exit hole? The jet was descending when it hit the facade of the pentagon. The travel of the jet was towards the ground. And all the lift surfaces being obliterated by the pentagon facade, the jet was going to fall towards the earth at the rate of free fall. Most bullets when fired parallel in relationship to the ground still are pulled towards the earth at the rate of free fall as they travel away from the gun.

You mean the jet, who’s engine hit a low concrete wall and left wing hit the ground before crashing into the pentagon?


You mean the blast witnessed by 100’s of people? All the way from the pentagon, to the freeway, to the hotels around the nearby airport? The pilot that air traffic controllers were in contact with that gave a real time account of the crash by radio.

a reply to: Jesushere

Why is your narrative based on ignoring facts, or used false arguments?

How is a 757’s fuselage not 13 foot tall and 12 foot wide?