How did Atta's passport actually survive?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

Like to create context?

I guess you are posting a picture of the outer ring of the pentagon? The entrance hole was about 90 feet wide, and two stories tall before the outer ring collapse. The fire ball ignited fires. The second ring on the ground floor was an open bay. The remains of the jet slid through the open bay into the wall of the third, or c ring.

The first floor at the exit of the first ring is still standing. There is no possible way wreckage came through there that area is
is blocked. The photograph is evidence of the walls collapsing forward as you can't see rubble between the first ring and second.

Well, here's a thought, though i think it's highly suspect.

If a person was 'planting' the passport wouldn't they have singed it around the edges to give it some cred?

AFAIK it was pristine. It's pretty odd that the cop didn't record the ID and take a statement of the person who gave it to him.

it was made of magic paper. fireproof, foolproof, truth-proof magic at work.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
it was made of magic paper. fireproof, foolproof, truth-proof magic at work.

Like the numerous examples provided of other items and documents that survived jet crashed?

Its questions like the Op poses that are a sure sign that there is or was a disinfo/misinfo campaign being run to dilute 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Seriously, asking how did Atta's passport survive and expecting an answer from anyone is exactly like asking and expecting an answer to Why did this (insert a piece of plane wreckage from the day) piece of airplane wreckage look the way it did after the plane blew up?

or how do planes make cartoon cut outs?


If one shuts off their thinking and doesn't think on a deeper level about the questions asked and takes them as being very valid then its no wonder we have 11 page threads about rubbish.



Why is it rubbish?


What is the question?


How does the passport survive?

simple, look an many other crashes and what was intact and who and how they survived.

Like I said in an earlier post,

Look at other crashes for instance one mentioned in the article I linked earlier where a flight attendant fell out of a plane at 30000 feet, she fell out because a bomb went off.

30000 feet and snow broke her fall and she survived.


But because YouTube videos pose this question with suspenseful music playing after pointing out many things that you agree and shake your head at it becomes something so unbelievable when in fact its not really that amazing.

Its small and very light, the paper used for passports is not your average paper that burns with the first sign of fire.

Its not like its a person falling out of the sky and surviving, now that is amazing and a wonder.

So many factor come into play, millions of things happening in micro seconds when a plane impacts a building.

pushing misinfo that it should have been destroyed when there are many times things along those lines have survived is just idiotic and distances one from getting any truth concerning conspiracies at the highest levels that surround the 9/11 incident.

a reply to: Jesushere

What was blocked?

Bringing Closure to the 9/11 Pentagon Debate
By John D. Wyndham | Oct 7, 2016 | Editor's Picks, Essays, Science, US | 238

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

Internal Column Damage: Figure 7 taken from The Pentagon Building Performance Report depicts internal column damage. At the top, red and blue squares depict missing and severely damaged columns. Green and yellow squares show columns with less damage. The width of the damage at the west wall (top) is about 100 feet, which is consistent with the impact of the fuselage, engines, and the heavy parts of the wings of a Boeing 757. As the fuselage moved into the building, it was shredded and scattered to the sides along its path, but a cone of decreasing width of material maintained enough focus to break through and make a hole in the C ring wall. The dark shaded area of the figure is where the building collapsed about 30 minutes after impact. The first floor area with damage but no collapse filled up with debris without the first floor ceiling collapsing. All these observations support the impact with the façade and passage of a large plane through the building primarily at the first floor level.

C Ring Exit Hole: The C ring exit hole can be understood as resulting from the impact of many pieces of plane debris. This process and the false assertion that workers created the hole as a way to access the building interior are fully discussed in the papers listed below. The exit hole lines up with the plane path that made a 52-degree angle with the Pentagon west wall. This fact in itself points to the hole’s origin since the exact plane path was not known until some days or weeks after the event. There is no evidence that any part of the crash scene was staged to imply a non-existent plane crash. All the physical and eyewitness evidence points to actual large plane impact.

Debris in the AE Drive: Debris strewn outside the C ring exit hole was in line with the direction of the plane’s motion and included a plane tire and a wheel rim consistent with a Boeing 757. See Figure 8.

a reply to: neutronflux

One, the passport was in the front of the jet that passed completely through the tower.

Prove it.

Nobody including you knows where the location of the passport was if it was on the plane.

It’s not odd a passport is recognizable after a jet crash.

No, I guess it's not, but whats odd is the passport was in perfect condition (whether you think so or not) after crash, explosion and fall (out of the plane and out of the building), and it was said to be soaked in jet fuel.

The passport shows zero signs of any of the above... is it still possible, maybe, but finding the passport of THE terrorist, found right after the crash in perfect condition handed right over to a Detective then FBI.

Just as convenient as the Harley shirt guy telling us the official narrative as soon as the tower came down.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

The passport shows zero signs of any of the above... is it still possible, maybe, but finding the passport of THE terrorist, found right after the crash in perfect condition handed right over to a Detective then FBI.

is something someone with a preconceived conclusions need to say.

If one is researching with an unbiased position then its not something to scratch your head about.

Atta's passport being found as it is is just one instance of the question being asked is done so using misinformation techniques to be used as evidence that the US Government did it and planted evidence.

Its always made out that its something never heard off when it is, more often than most want to realize.

Its always asked in this way so one doesn't see where the question is coming from, a preconceived conclusion that the government did it and any bit of info that can be used will be used but in a way to push the conclusion already made and not in a way to ask a question for one to research.

No, I guess it's not, but whats odd is the passport was in perfect condition (whether you think so or not) after crash, explosion and fall (out of the plane and out of the building), and it was said to be soaked in jet fuel.

the plane impacted the building and only parts of it and what was in the plane kept on going after other parts were destroyed.

It makes sense that it would be found like that if compared to a plane that crashes on the ground and the whole wreckage is engulfed but a passport is found but burnt compared to a pristine Atta passport.

If that is why people think its strange and coincidence is because yes you can compare crashes but in those comparisons the factors involved will be different and have to be taken in to account.

Atta's passport compared to a passport found in plane crash that impacted a solid object like a mountain or the ground must be realized.

I guess if Atta's passport is of such significance to some then there is really no discussion, some people cannot think for themselves and allow YouTube to do it for them.

I say this concerning 9/11 conspiracies because I used to be asking the same questions when I was first introduced to them. eventually realized that yes there is a cover up and a campaign to create wild conspiracies so the real questions that need to be constantly asked are burred in the nonsense of

why and how did Atta's passport survive?

The towers fell into their own footprint, must be demolition, just look at building 7.

No planes, military planes, holographic planes, nukes, space based particle beam weapons.

Out of the 100s of threads in the 9/11 forum I am assuming I could count on 1 hand how many threads are based on the real questions that should be asked but those threads quickly get derailed and turned into another subject like for example a missile hinting the pentagon in a thread about Building 7.

But 9/11 forum is the forum for derailed threads, just about every 9/11 thread gets or tries to get derailed.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

You prove the passport wasn’t in a carry on when it hit the street....

But you don’t disputed the passport, on close inspection of the link you provided, shows signs it was wetted by some liquid.

And you don’t dispute the evidence lab would have taken steps to preserve and protect the passport.

And it seems you are very wrong in thinking jet fuel would make the passport unreadable.

And the passport is nothing more than a footnote in history. It was not even a key piece of evidence. It was not even needed to ID the terrorists. Why would anyone even bother to plant the thing.

And the passport has no bearing on the WTC collapsed from fire and thermal stress induced inward bowing and buckling of vertical columns as seen in video evidence.

a reply to: neutronflux

Why are you so determined to debunk this (and many other) threads ? What is your motive ?

a reply to: Fermy

What am I debunking? You will not even state a theory what caused the towers to collapse?

Is it false individuals on 9/11 stopped to look at jet wreckage in the street.

Is it false there are numerous cases of items and documents surviving jet crashes?

Is it false the passport played no key roll in identifying the terrorists.

I would like to know why the towers were built so cheaply as in minimizing the use of concrete? Lacking a traditional concrete core? Why was WTC 7 built with odd floor angles? Were the floor angles throughly modeled and tested? Why was the WTC buildings not held to code? Why was the WTC deficient in fire insulation? NIST should have spent more time on these issues.

What is your motivation in trying to falsely push I promote the official narrative?

What is you motivation on ignoring the con artists and charlatans of the truth movement?

a reply to: Fermy

Are you in the rabbit hole so deep you think stating simple facts and truths is debunking?

neutronflux The wall on the first floor is still standing and wall beside it is still standing with no sign of plane wreckage crumbling that wall. The C ring hole doesn't make sense.

Eye don't lie the US government claims the plane wreckage went as far as the C ring if the wreckage went that far it has to break the wall on the way out of Ring A?

a reply to: InhaleExhale

It wasn't Atta's passport. Very common knowledge.

some people cannot think for themselves and allow YouTube to do it for them.

Not sure who you are referring to, but never assume. I personally stay away from Youtube, not saying you can't get info from there, just not my avenue.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"nutronflux"

You prove the passport wasn’t in a carry on when it hit the street.

Currently I can't, just like you can't prove it was on the plane. But facts are that the passport is in great shape and was found almost immediately, belonging to the terrorist, just like the left behind luggage, belonging to a terrorist.

But you don’t disputed the passport, on close inspection of the link you provided, shows signs it was wetted by some liquid.

I do dispute, I personally see no signs of liquid on the passport. The pics of the passport shows this, the thing is perfect, look again at all the pages: Link

You may think the passport is insignificant, but I do not. It would mean a lot to the 9/11 story if was not on the plane.

And the passport has no bearing on the WTC collapsed from fire and thermal stress induced inward bowing and buckling of vertical columns as seen in video evidence.

I get it, the passport has nothing to do with the actual collapse of the towers however they may have fell, but we are talking about the passport.

Listen, I will always question and I will continue to do so. Why is that bad? If I am wrong, then I am wrong, no biggie.

a reply to: Jesushere

Can you link to the actual photo? Here are the pictures I found? vault.fbi.gov...

When was your overhead shot taken? Well into cleanup? The pictures I linked to shows something more like a built retaining wall put up during construction.

Can you list details from the pentagon building performance report that does not make sense to. The report lists the path and the damaged columns. The jet came in at an angle, and the wreckage traveled in about a 45 degree angle. The jet did not come straight in.

a reply to: Jesushere

This shows the path of the jet through the pentagon.

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

The hole pictured closest to ring D in the collapsed section of ring E is not the path the jet took. The collapse of ring E is what brought down the wall straight opposite the entrance hole you are referring to.

neutronflux

This was the area the plane would smash against if the government version of events was true.



Notice the first floor, there burning but the wall along Ring A still standing, next adjacent wall, is standing so where the plane exit from? I don't see any evidence of a broken wall in Ring A, do you? The B ring wall same is not broken still standing.

a reply to: neutronflux

Why won't you answer my question as to your motives for opposing opinion on this and other 9-11 threads?
What are your motives ?

a reply to: Jesushere

You did not look at the diagram reference in this article

Figure 7 – Pentagon Building and Performance Report Figure 7.9

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

The reason the wall is there is because that was not the path of the jet. The visible hole opposite the entrance point in ring E was cut out from the collapse of the roof in ring E. Again the jet cut in diagonal and passed closer to the roof spanning between rings E and D. You are providing a prime example of how conspiracists push a false narrative by ignoring the actual path of broken columns from ring E to ring D to ring C.

a reply to: Jesushere

What do you don’t understand about this reference diagram.

Figure 7 – Pentagon Building and Performance Report Figure 7.9
www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

In reference to this statement.

The dark shaded area of the figure is where the building collapsed about 30 minutes after impact
www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

The broken wall you keep referring to opposite of flight 77’s entrance point was not created by flight 77. The visible breach you keep referring to was formed 30 minutes after impact when ring E collapsed. The actual hole punched out by flight 77 is lower down and obstructed by camera angle and the roof spanning rings E and D.