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Originally posted by Valhall
Yeah, and it's at the end of the tribulation when Christ returns:
10Then he said to them: "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
12"But before all this, they will lay hands on you and persecute you. They will deliver you to synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13This will result in your being witnesses to them. 14But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17All men will hate you because of me. 18But not a hair of your head will perish. 19By standing firm you will gain life.
20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
Luke 21:25 in context
Originally posted by marg6043
Just one thing, Sun Matrix,
During Jesus time everything he preached, his teachings were within the time line of his mortality and that of his disciples and followers.
He never talks about any futuristic times of doom at all.
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I see nothing that says the rapture is after the tribulation. Can you point this out to me?
[edit on 11-10-2006 by Sun Matrix]
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I can't agree Marg. Read Matthew 24 and Luke 21.
Originally posted by Valhall
No, Sun Matrix, because You're hell-bent on believing what makes you feel comfortable.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Proof I'm right on how you'll continue to ignore evidence - your post just before this one, that has already been answered. You just don't want to accept it.
And I don't particularly care what precarious position you place yourself in, but I'll continue to speak against people who spread such a dangerous, unscriptural teaching.
Don't bother asking me to show you anything else. Two times of repeating myself and getting the same response is a sure sign number three would be insane.
Originally posted by Valhall
You've been provided that answer in a number of posts.
And the reason that some folks get upset about this false teaching has been explained a number of times as well. Yet another example of you ignoring what you don't want to acknowledge, I guess.
Originally posted by Valhall
Show me where it says the rapture will occur before the tribulation.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Here for one.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Originally posted by Valhall
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Here for one.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Where in there does it say anything about the rapture occurring before the tribulation. I just don't see it. Show me.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken
Originally posted by marg6043
You show me Matt 24 and luke 21 and I will give you Matt. 28 when is obvious that it refers to the generation of the time and Luke 24:13 when it obviously talks about the two disciples disappointment because Jesus never fulfilled the Messianic hopes.
Matt. 10:23, Matt 16:28 and many more that clearly refers to Jesus and his teachings as to be of his time and not references to a time line spanning centuries.
During Jesus time everything he preached, his teachings were within the time line of his mortality and that of his disciples and followers. He never talks about any futuristic times of doom at all.
“Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory. "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" 1Corinthians 15:51-55.
“For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself WILL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God [1Cor. 15:52] , and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds to MEET THE LORD in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.” 1Thessalonians 4:15-17.
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Originally posted by Terral
Greetings:
Anyone with one eye can see what is going on here. Shame, shame. And only 4 warnings for one offense. Heh . . . The fact is that none of my debating opponents are giving ‘their’ interpretations to Paul’s words on this topic given to the ‘churches’ of our NT. How many ways are there to interpret these things?